Members Anderton Posted May 20, 2007 Members Share Posted May 20, 2007 Reason why I'm asking: I want to make some registry tweaks, but y'all know what a pig it is, and how if you mess up, it can blow up your computer and all that. So, I'd like to back it up before tweaking (is system restore good enough?), and if I blow it, be able to recall the backed up version. How about it, Windows pros? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted May 20, 2007 Members Share Posted May 20, 2007 what ver of Win are you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted May 20, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 20, 2007 Yes, I guess that would be useful information Windows XP SP2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted May 20, 2007 Members Share Posted May 20, 2007 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/322756/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted May 20, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 20, 2007 Thanks! That's the ticket. One last question: If you can't boot the computer into Windows because the registry is screwed up, how do you access the backup program...or can you do it from safe mode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted May 20, 2007 Members Share Posted May 20, 2007 get acronis... image the drive. you should be doing that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted May 20, 2007 Members Share Posted May 20, 2007 you should be able to do it from a safe mode sysinternals may havve a lower level as well too (I use proprietary stuff as I used to work for Ontrack) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted May 20, 2007 Members Share Posted May 20, 2007 I've seen programs like regedit that let you back up the registry before you make changes. Sourceforge probably. http://windowsxp.mvps.org/registry.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Doe Posted May 20, 2007 Members Share Posted May 20, 2007 Here's how I do it. I boot the machine with the XP install CD and go into recovery console. at the command prompt go to: C:%windir%system32config make a dir for the registry backup: C:windowssystem32config>md backup then copy the following registry HIVE files into the directory: C:windowssystem32config>copy SOFTWARE backupC:windowssystem32config>copy SYSTEM backupC:windowssystem32config>copy SECURITY backupC:windowssystem32config>copy DEFAULT backupC:windowssystem32config>copy SAM backup Then reboot normally and tweak your registry. If it blows up, boot back into recovery console and copy those 5 files back to their original locations: C:windowssystem32config>copy backupSOFTWARE (etc...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Doe Posted May 21, 2007 Members Share Posted May 21, 2007 Ok, while we're on the subject, another important thing. Rather than buy all kinds of third party software for system imaging and/or recovery, try using what's supplied with the system. In Windows OS's the backup utility delivered with the system is all you need for backup/recovery, system upgrading, repartitioning disks, etc. Just do a full system backup that includes the system state and you'll be able to do anything you like with the system. I do this for a living. It's more versitile than disk imaging options. I only use disk imaging products to clone large numbers of workstations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alfonso Posted May 21, 2007 Members Share Posted May 21, 2007 Ghost or any good partition image software is something that i recommend to use not only if you have to do special tweaks, but also as you have a good working system...whatever happens (hd's don't last forever) you are safe and back at work in few minutes. If you use a PC live it can save your show. If you have to re-install everything it takes the time of a coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted May 21, 2007 Members Share Posted May 21, 2007 Rather than buy all kinds of third party software for system imaging and/or recovery, try using what's supplied with the system.In Windows OS's the backup utility delivered with the system is all you need for backup/recovery, system upgrading, repartitioning disks, etc.Just do a full system backup that includes the system state and you'll be able to do anything you like with the system. I do this for a living. It's more versitile than disk imaging options.. im curious... i haven found what is included with XP worthwhile in saving system states, especially on disasterous meltdowns [such as HDD going bad]... nor would i be that confident in repartitioning the OS HDD with the included disk management tools, let alone not having an image of the drive on major changes to the system. im curious which tools you are using and how you are using them with in XP. say you want a drive image [OS/APP drive] to include ALL activations and so forth, how are you backing that up? something that backs that up WHILE resources are being used? where you keep the backup? how you partition/repartition/unpartition a system drive? and so on... just a couple things off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Doe Posted May 21, 2007 Members Share Posted May 21, 2007 The backup program in windows will do a complete system backup. Go look at it some time in non-wizard mode. This is the ONLY tool I use for system backups and hardware upgrades. There is a reason for that; The backup system doesnt care about your drives. What I do: 1. Attach a USB HDD bigger than my collective drives. ( A 300GB USB drive costs between $100-$200) 2. Do a full system backup including "System State" (this backs up the registry and context) to a backup file on the external HDD. 3. Install a big new HDD and do a plain jane install of the OS making sure to partition the drives to suit in the process. 4. configure the drives as needed once the OS starts using the Disk Management tool. 5. Using the backup application, do a full system restore from the backup file on the USB Drive. You can just as easily install a spare IDE drive as a slave to do the backup to as well, the USB is just easier. NOTE: If you change too many pieces of hardware at the same time, the applications that are keyed to the hardware configuration may need to have a new key installed. This is true of imaging as well. Another note: Before you install any software on your computers you need to make sure it will back up properly. If some company's software install defies normal backup and restore procedures, they should make available an alternative disaster recovery procedure. If you have questions about it, ask them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted May 21, 2007 Members Share Posted May 21, 2007 wait a minute... you are saying i would have to reinstall XP with this method? do authorizations hold in tact? with something like Acronis... its simply a image to another drive [external or internal, where ever... i have even heard onto dual layer DVDs] and then a boot CD and within maybe 15 minutes you are back exactly pre-crash. no reloading the OS. i can see you method working, but taking far too long. for $80 investment, it saves a good bit of time over the install of XP. add in their networking recovery option and it can be the tits for multiple workstations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted May 21, 2007 Members Share Posted May 21, 2007 I've beenout of the data recovery industry for a couple of years (HA! now the wife has to work) Does the lastest Tru Image do a sector-based image? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Doe Posted May 21, 2007 Members Share Posted May 21, 2007 and then a boot CD and within maybe 15 minutes you are back exactly pre-crash. no reloading the OS.i can see you method working, but taking far too long. for $80 investment, it saves a good bit of time over the install of XP. add in their networking recovery option and it can be the tits for multiple workstations. Yes, it preserves authorizations. That's what saving the "System State" means. I'm not here to debate. The method I outlined will backup and restore any system using native tools. It is the method supported by the producer of the OS. All OS's have this capability built in. That's why I use it. I can talk to a customer over the phone and tell them what to do, or remote to their desktop and it will work. You may not realize it, but learning to use native tools actually makes everything quicker and simpler in this (IT) business. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted May 21, 2007 Members Share Posted May 21, 2007 im not trying to debate you... i was simply curious as to your method. i to do this "for a living" and have found this other way far more effecient. of course it is kind of bad for me, good for the client since i get paid by my time. also, most companies [dell,hp/compaq,gateway] dont include the XP install CD but a recovery CD. those invariably put loads of other crap onto systems which also take time to remove, does your method do away with that nonsense? its one of the reasons why i now build all the computers for my clients because they get a no "frills" version of XPpro w/o all the "offers" included. either way, with a "honed down" version of the install plus apps with their required authorizations, restoring from a network image is so much quicker than recovery disks included from manufacturers. i had one restore that literally took 8 HOURS to complete from HP. it was sickening.... and i really have no idea why it took so long but you are kind of at the mercy of their recovery disks. that was from a failed HDD and a new one to replace it. i understand your method, and while a nice built in and cheap solution... i think [some] 3rd party imaging software is much faster and more effective at putting the system back EXACTLY where it should be. i can talk most people through on the phone [its sometimes a daily thing from server access to printing issues], and i have whole office networks available via RDC for most problems through a VPN tunnel. most problems i can fix in my pajamas with a cup of coffee. its becoming more rare i need to go to the office... i do NOT work for acronis, but i really do like their product and think they offer something very nice and a low price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted May 21, 2007 Members Share Posted May 21, 2007 oh yeah, does your method also include all "updates" on the restore? what is making me wonder is the need to reinstall the OS as part of the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Doe Posted May 21, 2007 Members Share Posted May 21, 2007 Hey, if you like it, do it. I'm not going to be the one to tell my customers they have to go out and buy more software just to back up their system though. I use acronis tru-image for rollouts but never for backups. Like I said, in my business environment it makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Doe Posted May 21, 2007 Members Share Posted May 21, 2007 oh yeah, does your method also include all "updates" on the restore? what is making me wonder is the need to reinstall the OS as part of the process. Your updates were backed up during the full sys backup. Just a plain jane basic install of the os, just so it will boot and run Disk Manager (if needed) and Backup. It will restore your system completely. Updates, service packs, everything. I mean machine name, domain/workgroup membership, file sharing and security, everything. It doesn't back up temp files or the swap file (which is good). I can do a basic XP install in 15 minutes. The restore time is going to be dictated by how big the backup was. All things said and done I can usually restore a machine in an hour. The thing about a backup is that you can "selectively" restore from it. I may just need to restore my "My Documents" folder for instance. You can't do that from an image file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted May 21, 2007 Members Share Posted May 21, 2007 Hey, if you like it, do it. I'm not going to be the one to tell my customers they have to go out and buy more software just to back up their system though.. well when it only costs them an hour of my time and many hours saved later on... they come out better. i am curious, you are talking about using the restore CD's or are these from MS XP install disks? we are also kind of discussing two different things, one [which i am mainly referring to] is a complete restoration of the OS, b] would be backing up files... which you can do with acronis as well and selectively restore those, and schedule it. i usually run centralized file servers so there really isnt 'my document' folders to backup... about the only thing currently is the outlook.pst folder that needs occasional backing up. backups, we do on rotating removeable media taken off location, and to FTP as well. that way its in two locations. the other nice feature is the GroupServer allowing you to view all machines on the network and make changes to all or some of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted May 21, 2007 Author Members Share Posted May 21, 2007 This is all very, very interesting stuff from all concerned and I'm learning a lot. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Doe Posted May 21, 2007 Members Share Posted May 21, 2007 would be backing up files... which you can do with acronis as well and selectively restore those, and schedule it. i usually run centralized file servers so there really isnt 'my document' folders to backup... about the only thing currently is the outlook.pst folder that needs occasional backing up. backups, we do on rotating removeable media taken off location, and to FTP as well. that way its in two locations. the other nice feature is the GroupServer allowing you to view all machines on the network and make changes to all or some of them. I just use an XP OS install CD. It doesn't need the restore CD's because you don't care about the drivers and stuff. A basic install from a generic XP OS cd works just fine for this. I have literally dozens of them around. I love them because they're bootable and can get me into Recovery Console as well to do CHKDSK, or repair failed boot sectors, or manipulate system files without them being locked by the OS. You don't have to care about licensing because the restore process also restores the original license. I agree there are different backup scenarios. For mission critical machines like accounting, CAD, etc, I do full sys backups. Belt AND suspenders. The registry backup process I described for Craig is what is taught to all MCSE's as the failsafe method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Doe Posted May 21, 2007 Members Share Posted May 21, 2007 For all non-technical (for PC's anyway) people reading this; You used to be able to boot a PC from a floppy disk to do low level system stuff and trouble shoot. Same thing today but you just use a OS install cd. It'll boot from the CD drive and you can select Recovery Console and get a DOS shell that works on NTFS filesystems and lets you fix system stuff. Most PC's don't ship with a floppy drive anymore. You may need to go into your BIOS and set it to boot from CD or change the boot order. (FYI, all my personal a/o business machines are set to try and boot from the CD as the first option in the boot order.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted May 21, 2007 Members Share Posted May 21, 2007 This is all very, very interesting stuff from all concerned and I'm learning a lot. Thanks! I saved the thread before I even got to this point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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