Members Magpel Posted June 5, 2007 Members Share Posted June 5, 2007 In the past few years, a friend of mine has turned me on to two albums that have, retroactively, taken their places in my "great rock albums of all times" short list. They are Doolittle by The Pixies and The Bends by Radiohead. Neither band was a stranger to me. I had already owned Trompe Le Monde and OK Computer for years; but those two albums--Doolittle and The Bends--radically changed what I thought of each band--espciallyThe Bends. I've always kind of dug the Pixies. Anyway, to the point: I find both of these classic albums kind of crappy sounding in many respects. Doolittle, produced by Gil Norton, I believe, is metallic, thin, and very fatiguing to listen to. The snare sound has got to be the most papery ever recorded, and if you ever listen to the album while driving, the substance of the mix just disappears--you can hear it but you can't feel it, washed away in the background noise. Trompe Le Monde, by comparison, has a focused, fat and rich overall sound. The Bends, produced by John Leckie, is swampy sounding, indistinct, swishy, unfocused and yet also kind of fatiguing and abrasive at the same time. It sounds crinkly when it tries to sound crunchy. It's a world away from the wonderfully spacey and spacious sound of OK Computer... ...and yet, paradoxically, both albums feel really sonically coherent, full of cool and well balanced detail, capturing an extraoridnary band vibe, full of drama. So this is a completely subjective thing, and I'm not looking for pat generalizations, but what went right and what went wrong? Is it possible that both records, esepcially Doolittle (circa '89), were well produced but victimized by early-era ADCs and DACs? Is it possible they were vicitimized by crap mastering? (neither, btw, is particular loud or squished sounding). Or did someone in the engineering--mixing-mastering chain just kind of drop the ball. John Leckie, interestingly, prodcued a couple of early XTC records and the Posies first major label release, Dear 23, and all of them are wildly inventive sonically but overall kind of thin and cheap sounding. maybe that's his stamp... Just a playful question. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Magpel Posted June 6, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 Heh, 37 views and no replies. I guess everyone floats a lead balloon from time to time, as an old professor used to say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nice keetee Posted June 6, 2007 Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 Sorry i'm not too familiar with the albums you mention, but have you been up into "The Ridge", the "Gunks"? I have family around there. Did a banjo track on a short documentary about saving the ridge that is near New Paltz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted June 6, 2007 Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 Anyway, to the point: I find both of these classic albums kind of crappy sounding in many respects. ...and yet, paradoxically, both albums feel really sonically coherent, full of cool and well balanced detail, capturing an extraoridnary band vibe, full of drama. I don't know about the hardware or mastering aspects, but sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. For instance, guitar players are notorious for always chasing a huge, rich sound. But if you listen to a lot of classic tracks (especially some old motown) the guitars by themselves are really very thin and chintzy. But as part of the big picture... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Magpel Posted June 6, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 Sorry i'm not too familiar with the albums you mention, but have you been up into "The Ridge", the "Gunks"? I have family around there. Did a banjo track on a short documentary about saving the ridge that is near New Paltz. Of course! I am a frequent visitor to the Gunks, which is as I'm sure you know short for Shawangunk. As for saving the Ridge, thanks for doing your part--not sure what that status of that guy's plan is now, but the assaults will keep coming. I wonder if I know your people...wanna PM their names? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thunderpuppy Posted June 6, 2007 Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 Sure... I'll chime in... Radiohead was an act of evolution-- Pablo Honey always sounded like generic college rock to me, and The Bends, while I have several friends that swear by it, sounds very much like a stepping-stone to get to OK Computer and beyond. As I understand it, OK Computer was where the band truly broke out... they were popular before, but they were an "important" band when this hit, and I believe that has to do with not just the songwriting but also the quality of sound-- the engineering is a huge part of why this band broke out, and I believe that this progression is the producer/engineer's (Nigel Godrich) as well as the band. He is advancing with them. Steve Albini said of The Pixies once "I've never seen a band happier to be led around by the nose," and accused them of being the sort of band that would do whatever hitmakers told them would make The Pixies a success. Now, personally, I like The Pixies (the entire body of work), and Mr. Albini is known for being a touch confrontational, but he also engineered what is in my opinion the best-sounding Pixies album, their LP debut. Unlike Radiohead, the Pixies weren't starting out rough-hewn and evolving with their engineer/producer in tow... they started out with one of my favorite engineers and sounded raw and vital, then switched to a more conventional pop sound (Doolittle), then switched to the swamp/space/wash (Bossanova), and finally to the polished sheen of Trompe Le Monde. It's difficult to say exactly why, but no two Pixies albums sound much alike. I might be rambling, but the albums you picked struck a chord with me. I think they're symptoms of different processes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Z_Zoquis Posted June 7, 2007 Members Share Posted June 7, 2007 hmm, I always loved the way Doolittle sounded. At least on vinyl. I seem to recall the CD sounds quite a bit thinner. But the LP was one of my favorite sounding records. And I actually don't think the first couple of records sounded that great really...to me they sounded like they were recorded in somebodys basement. I think Doolittle is both the Pixies best record and their best sounding record...it would definitely be on my shortlist of best records of the past 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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