Members Magpel Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 I had to switch for work purposes. I realize that it is all there--all the functionality and the basic nomenclature is the same, and I also realize I may come to find advantages to the new interface over time, but nonetheless I find it infuriating. Every time it takes me five minutes to find search/replace or some such, my blood boils. I find it almost obscene that MS would so brazenly bail on a GUI that has been so stable and, for lack of a a better word, accretive for so long. Why is there no prominently featured, single-switch Classic View button??? Ballsy. Stupid, unless there really is bold new engine underneath this whole thing. Now, in the weeks ahead I am going to have to design a fairly sophisticated print-ready template for documentation I will be writing. I am a writer, not a document design person at all, but in my current job we all wear many masks. You think I am pissed now? Actually, here's how MS could redeem this change in my eyes. I have used advanced template and document design features in Word '03 and earlier before and found them extremely unstable. A template seems to be working fine and simple moves--even the kind that a general reader might perform--cause the template to self-destruct. Pagination goes to hell, section breaks disappear, styles are inexplicably applied, TOC goes nutso. If this aspect of '07 is more stable, I will be thrilled, and I will forgive, but why does my heart tell me they spent all their time and resources on the new Vista-style GUI? /rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 openoffice.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Magpel Posted May 19, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 openoffice.org Last time I checked in, it wasn't up to snuff for designing templates ands such, but I may need to look again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 openoffice.org I was just gonna say. The people who called the shots on Vista and the Vista-generation Office products seem to be the biggest bunch of losers I've seen in a long, damn time. A few more years of this, and Corel ought to be able to pick up Microsoft and all its products for a song... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 Last time I checked in, it wasn't up to snuff for designing templates ands such, but I may need to look again... It ain't Reaper [of course not -- everyone knows that one guy, maybe with a small support team, can develop circles around committees and workgroups of industry professionals] -- but Open Office keeps moving along. I can't weigh in on the template angle -- and I have to say that OO is starting to feel a bit bloated, just like the clueless 800 pound gorilla, MS Office, but at least it has freakin' File Menus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 19, 2008 Moderators Share Posted May 19, 2008 I had the same experience with 07 here at work. I literally stand up from time time ready to scream and I'm stomping around thinking, "Why'd they go put that there!!!" I agree. I don't think too many folks are happy with the changes. It's like a country announcing that going forward we will be driving on the other side of the road. You'll get it eventually but you won't be smiling. I got our tech services to switch me back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dreabfly Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 Maybe I can help you. Document design is what I do for a living. Most of the problems that you mention occur because the document hasn't been designed or protected properly. Most users aren't aware of the forms function or the ability to lock sections of a document. Those two functions make appropriate template design a lot easier. What kind of template do you need to create? Maybe I can point you in a direction that will ease some of the suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Magpel Posted May 19, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 Maybe I can help you. Document design is what I do for a living. Most of the problems that you mention occur because the document hasn't been designed or protected properly. Most users aren't aware of the forms function or the ability to lock sections of a document. Those two functions make appropriate template design a lot easier.What kind of template do you need to create? Maybe I can point you in a direction that will ease some of the suffering. Thanks you v. much and I will take you up on this, but it makes more sense to do it when specific needs and issues arise, so keep an eye on your PMs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Magpel Posted May 19, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 It ain't Reaper... Have I mentioned recently how much I love Reaper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kerouac Posted May 19, 2008 Members Share Posted May 19, 2008 I moved to OO as well, but I agree about the more bloated thing. A couple of versions ago ran much better and as far as I can tell I haven't used any of the "new" features. That said, it's free and that's always good... as long as it works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 The nice thing about OO is that you can save your work as an .RTF file, and Word will open it (assuming someone else has to be able to use it in Word, which I wouldn't normally recommend). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 I had the same experience with 07 here at work. I literally stand up from time time ready to scream and I'm stomping around thinking, "Why'd they go put that there!!!" I agree. I don't think too many folks are happy with the changes. It's like a country announcing that going forward we will be driving on the other side of the road. You'll get it eventually but you won't be smiling.I got our tech services to switch me back. Imagine what would happen if they did that to the OS. Oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scud133 Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 wow I love office 2007. the ribbon thing is awesome; it is sooo much easier to write papers for school, to insert photos/graphs into the text, etc etc. you only need the big office logo button to save or print, everything else is right there in the ribbon. attaching themes, styles, and templates is a piece of cake. word, excel, and powerpoint all work so well together, full integration and consistency. i have never had one of those moments i used to have in word '03, where the whole document would just seem to be totally f'd up (margins screwed up, not able to type in certain areas, indentations and rulers all over the place). that used to happen regularly in the old office, at least to me... i'm glad they changed it so much... office '03 just looks so old and clunky by comparison. *notice i said it's easier to use before I said it looks better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dreabfly Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 Thanks you v. much and I will take you up on this, but it makes more sense to do it when specific needs and issues arise, so keep an eye on your PMs! Will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted May 20, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 You need to upgrade to Word 97. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Smithereen Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 Personally I think it's been all down hill since Word 5.1a. And that was on the Mac. I don't remember ever not being frustrated with word on windows. It seems every time they decide to add features to make my life easier, it gets in the way of getting work done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 wow I love office 2007. the ribbon thing is awesome; it is sooo much easier to write papers for school, to insert photos/graphs into the text, etc etc. you only need the big office logo button to save or print, everything else is right there in the ribbon. attaching themes, styles, and templates is a piece of cake. word, excel, and powerpoint all work so well together, full integration and consistency. i have never had one of those moments i used to have in word '03, where the whole document would just seem to be totally f'd up (margins screwed up, not able to type in certain areas, indentations and rulers all over the place). that used to happen regularly in the old office, at least to me... i'm glad they changed it so much... office '03 just looks so old and clunky by comparison. *notice i said it's easier to use before I said it looks better Here's the rub for long time users - they altered some of the command key sequences. If you are generating lots of text, you want your hand on the keyboard. Every time you need to use a menu, button, or other mouse oriented function it slows you down. They also changed the navigation sequence for using keyboard shortcuts in the file management dialog boxes, so that's mousier as well. The mouse can be useful for some graphics work, but for handling words it's not so much. The other problem, which has been ongoing since Word 5.1 is that they are heaping page layout functions into the "word processor", which clutters the program. I rather liked typing my text in plain documents and then importing it to a proper page layout program. Que sera, sera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Magpel Posted May 20, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 It's the simple bumps of adjusting that are throwing me off and slowing me down, and then this leads to a sulphorous philosophical anger over they "why" of it all, and the idiotic premise that seems to drive technology development, part of which could be expressed: "change is inevitable, so let's change. Why? Because change is inevitable, so let's change." It was, I presume, time for a bold new look. Scud may well be right that the new GUI offers workflow advantages, but when you've got the world's most used word processor, and an interface that has been more or less stable since, like, shortly after the days of PC Write and Norton Textra (the first WP I used where I didn't have to enter lines of code to achieve double spacing...) I know people--smart people, capable--who actually believe the Mac/PC commercials. They, likely, feel a moment of warmth and grace when those commercials come on. My sister in law, a Macolyte documentary filmmaker from Seattle (talk about core demographic!), told me the other day that "you can't have several programs running simultaneously on the PC without it crashing." I just stared for a moment with with my jaw sinking and said something about how I've officially sworn off OS debates. I won't even fight the hype any more. ...Why do I bring this up? Only because Vista and Office '07 are starting to bear out the stereotype... and that's tragic. I've got four damn computers in this damn house running XP SP2 and they all run flawlessly and always have. They handle whatever software I throw at them from corporate bloatware to the thrill and peril of hot off the street garage-dev audio apps. Wait...I was complaining about Office '07, not Vista, right? Never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amplayer Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 It's the simple bumps of adjusting that are throwing me off and slowing me down, and then this leads to a sulphorous philosophical anger over they "why" of it all, and the idiotic premise that seems to drive technology development, part of which could be expressed: "change is inevitable, so let's change. Why? Because change is inevitable, so let's change."It was, I presume, time for a bold new look. Scud may well be right that the new GUI offers workflow advantages, but when you've got the world's most used word processor, and an interface that has been more or less stable since, like, shortly after the days of PC Write and Norton Textra (the first WP I used where I didn't have to enter lines of code to achieve double spacing...)I know people--smart people, capable--who actually believe the Mac/PC commercials. They, likely, feel a moment of warmth and grace when those commercials come on. My sister in law, a Macolyte documentary filmmaker from Seattle (talk about core demographic!), told me the other day that "you can't have several programs running simultaneously on the PC without it crashing." I just stared for a moment with with my jaw sinking and said something about how I've officially sworn off OS debates. I won't even fight the hype any more....Why do I bring this up? Only because Vista and Office '07 are starting to bear out the stereotype... and that's tragic. I've got four damn computers in this damn house running XP SP2 and they all run flawlessly and always have. They handle whatever software I throw at them from corporate bloatware to the thrill and peril of hot off the street garage-dev audio apps. Wait...I was complaining about Office '07, not Vista, right? Never mind. I pretty much agree with all your rant above. However, so far, I don't have much problems with Vista. When the Apple add shows Vista as broken, I just laugh. I run Vista on a laptop with no problems. However, I don't DARE upgrade my Mac OS from Tiger to Leopard because a lot of audio and MIDI programs don't work well with Leopard. Incredibly, Logic Pro is the app most responsible for my decision NOT to upgrade my Mac OS. I do completely share your frustration with the new Office software though. I rarely ever go for the evil corporation theories, but on this one, I surmise that the reason MS so radically changed the interface for Word is because they knew that tons of users would need training to figure out how to use it, and now they can sell all the training materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 However, I don't DARE upgrade my Mac OS from Tiger to Leopard because a lot of audio and MIDI programs don't work well with Leopard. Er? I moved to Leopard earlier this year, and have had no issues. I'm using a variety of AU plug-ins with Digital Performer, and both AU and VST plugs in Bias Peak. Where have you been told that such programs don't work well with Leopard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amplayer Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 Er?I moved to Leopard earlier this year, and have had no issues. I'm using a variety of AU plug-ins with Digital Performer, and both AU and VST plugs in Bias Peak. Where have you been told that such programs don't work well with Leopard? Try visiting the Logic forum and see for yourself. I believe it's getting better, but is still an issue. And anyways, I can't see any benefit at all from moving to Leopard. What huge benefit is there that makes the upgrade time-wasting hassle worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 I use only the one computer for all my personal computing needs , and the big aspect of Leopard for me is the easy integration of data backup. As far as time-wasting hassle, it took me about 2 1/2 hours. I've been running for several months now and have yet to hit a "oops, forgot to reset that after the OS upgrade" My workplace jumped to Vista at around the same time I was going to Leopard on my own computer, and I'm still tweaking things at work, not to mention the certain functions that have been so well hidden in Vista/Office that I can't even configure them to my liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rabid Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 I did a thread a while be on this forum about how awful the MS Office update is for intelligent users. It goes with the Microsoft movement to consider all users idiots that need to be lead around by the hand. I may eventually get past the new layout and configure the interface so that it does not seem like it was programmed by Satin, but document portability is a killer. The import/export spec tables for my Access databases don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mmcquain Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 The whole "ribbon" instead of a simple menu and toolbar interface is a step BACKWARDS IMO. I too hate Office 2007 and I don't like Internet Explorer 7 either. I'm not a fan of Vista (too much incompatibility with older stuff). And I work in I.T. (but I recommend AGAINST installing any of the latest Microsoft offerings). Actually a lot of the corporate world isn't happy with the new products and that is why you are seeing Microsoft now say they will continue to support Windows XP beyond the original "kill" date. Hopefully they'll see the error of their ways and maybe the next versions will be better (but don't hold your breath!) When I set up a computer for a new user (albeit at work or home/family) I'll set the OS to look like the "classic" interface (Windows 2000/9x) as I don't even like the changes they made to the Start menu, etc. under XP (looks childish/cartoon-like to me). Uuughhhh.... Microsoft.... what a pain at times!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Magpel Posted May 20, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 I pretty much agree with all your rant above. However, so far, I don't have much problems with Vista. When the Apple add shows Vista as broken, I just laugh. I run Vista on a laptop with no problems. However, I don't DARE upgrade my Mac OS from Tiger to Leopard because a lot of audio and MIDI programs don't work well with Leopard. Incredibly, Logic Pro is the app most responsible for my decision NOT to upgrade my Mac OS.I do completely share your frustration with the new Office software though. I rarely ever go for the evil corporation theories, but on this one, I surmise that the reason MS so radically changed the interface for Word is because they knew that tons of users would need training to figure out how to use it, and now they can sell all the training materials. I should have clarified, I don't have functional or performance problems with Vista either. What is anger-inducing of Vista is how over they top they've gone in protecting users from themelves, with the myriad administrator approvals, etc.My Vista machine runs well, for the most part, though it seems a little sludgier than lower spec'd XP machines I've got here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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