Regardless of which Presidential candidate you favor...

[Phil O'Keefe]

I think this site makes an excellent point:

 

 

http://resistcomfort.com/votetheissues/

 

 

 

PS Don't forget to vote.

[UstadKhanAli]

That's an amazing PhotoShop job.

[amplayer]

The two sides are so deeply divided on moral and economic issues that I don't think skin color matters to very many people. There. Now I have just made both an optimistic AND pessimistic viewpoint simultaneously.

[egelmett]

What's the point, again?

 

I agree. Great Photoshop job.

 

The inference is that I would choose the race of the person with whom I identify?

 

If that's the point, it's a juvenile and shallow one...

[awfulcase]

 

.......that I don't think skin color matters to very many people.

 

 

 

Maybe where you live it doesn't. Here in WV it does. When whole counties which have been voting democrat for decades vote for McCain all of a sudden, conclusions can be made.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

The inference is that I would choose the race of the person with whom I identify?

 

 

 

No, the inference is to stick to the issues, no matter what the skin color.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Maybe where you live it doesn't. Here in WV it does. When whole counties which have been voting democrat for decades vote for McCain all of a sudden, conclusions can be made.

 

 

You're in WV? I visit there once a year and really love the state. Beautiful state with a lot of really nice people so far.

 

I'm disappointed that whole counties who have been voting democrat for decades vote for McCain all of a sudden, though...are those a LOT of counties, a few, or ???

[BlueStrat]

 

No, the inference is to stick to the issues , no matter what the skin color.

 

 

Too bad too many people have no clue what the issues are or what the implications of each candidates policies really mean. Unfortunately most voters pulling the trigger are going to vote on visceral responses to either candidate. It may not be based on race, but if it's based on age, articulation, charisma, who has sat on more committees or who gave more to their country, it may as well be.

 

I had a conversation last night on a break at my gig with a dear friend who's an ardent Obama supporter. I don't like either McCain or Obama, but I asked her why she liked him. "He just speaks so well!" she said. (After Bush, that's not saying a lot but I digress). So I asked her what she thought about some of his key positions and she didn't know what they were and didn't seem to care. Sigh.

 

I read an interesting piece by John Stossel the other day. His thesis was that if you don't have a clue about what either candidate stands for or wants to do, or if you really think Obama is a Muslim commie or McCain is a right wing extremist, then it is your duty to NOT vote. I'm coming to the point of agreeing with him.

[BlueStrat]

Maybe where you live it doesn't. Here in WV it does. When whole counties which have been voting democrat for decades vote for McCain all of a sudden, conclusions can be made.

 

[blue2blue]

I think this site makes an excellent point: http://resistcomfort.com/votetheissues/ PS Don't forget to vote.

 

I think a "choice" between race and issues is a false dichotomy.

 

That said, I'm very much not one to put any much import on race, sex, or religion, in themselves -- unless the candidates themselves make an issue of them, in which case I'm thinking that will definitely push me away from them. (If someone says vote for me because I'm black/white/green/Christian/Jewish/Muslim/Zoroastrian, it's a straight up warning sign to me.)

 

 

My problem with this is the vote the issues part.

 

The issues are clearly important -- don't get me wrong.

 

But over and over again we see people who stood on the "right side" of a given issue (whatever we see that to be) but who have disappointed us and violated our trust through either misfeasance or outright malfeasance.

 

I believe the character and personal makeup and approach of a candidate is crucial.

 

 

Last time I voted for someone principally because I thought they would agree on the issues with me -- the SOB ended up in jail.

[awfulcase]

 

You're in WV? I visit there once a year and really love the state. Beautiful state with a lot of really nice people so far. Yes it is, I live in Monongalia County since a few years now, originally I'm from Austria. I'm disappointed that whole counties who have been voting democrat for decades vote for McCain all of a sudden, though...are those a LOT of counties, a few, or ??? Looking at county maps next Tuesday night will prove me wrong or right, but there is a general sentiment of democrats in the coal mining counties that either McCain is strongly favored or the with-holding of the vote altogether. Here in Mon County it's a little different, with Morgantown, a University town added into the equation. Obama will win Monongalia by a sizable margin.

 

 

Bluestrat, you can roll your eyes all day long at me, but race relations in this country are a big issue if you're African American, like my wife is. I don't claim to know how to fix it, but not acknowledging that race is an issue is delusional.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

I read an interesting piece by John Stossel the other day. His thesis was that if you don't have a clue about what either candidate stands for or wants to do, or if you really think Obama is a Muslim commie or McCain is a right wing extremist, then it is your duty to NOT vote. I'm coming to the point of agreeing with him.

 

 

Rock The Vote.

Get out there and vote.

 

Much of the rhetoric is to get people to go out to the polls and cast their ballots. But really, there's much more to it than that. It's to actually no the issues, not just to make some uninformed marks on a ballot.

 

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." -Winston Churchill

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Bluestrat , you can roll your eyes all day long at me, but race relations in this country are a big issue if you're African American, like my wife is. I don't claim to know how to fix it, but not acknowledging that race is an issue is delusional.

 

 

It is still, unfortunately, still an issue. Some of us in the larger cities may not see it as much, or it may not be as obvious, but when a sort of catastrophe occurs (Rodney King riots in Los Angeles, for instance), race relations can roar back in a nasty way. Thankfully, our country has a little less of it with each subsequent generation.

 

~~~~~~

 

I'm familiar with Morgantown somewhat, having been there once before. Charming town with a very hard-partying young college crowd...I believe over half the population is from the college. A friend of ours lived there for a few years.

[amplayer]

One thing I think we can agree on to very nearly 100% on SSS is that people who vote based on race are idiotic.

 

Obama's votes due to his race are expected to be about a wash. That is, there are about as many idiots who are voting for him because of his race as there are idiots voting against him because of his race.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

One thing I think we can agree on to very nearly 100% on SSS is that people who vote based on race are idiotic. Obama's votes due to his race are expected to be about a wash. That is, there are about as many idiots who are voting for him because of his race as there are idiots voting against him because of his race.

 

 

I've wondered about this too (and we've sorta discussed it in another thread)...I wonder how many there are that are indeed voting for Obama *because* of his race. I've no doubt that they exist, although I've never encountered anyone who has said so. Anyway, very interesting.

[BlueStrat]

 

Bluestrat , you can roll your eyes all day long at me, but race relations in this country are a big issue if you're African American, like my wife is. I don't claim to know how to fix it, but not acknowledging that race is an issue is delusional.

 

 

I don't disagree. I just think In Obama's case it may be that he has plenty of other negatives besides race that would cause people to not vote for him. I'm sure it's a factor at some level but to say that formerly democratic districts are voting McCain simply based on race is simplistic and frankly insulting to the many people who may not like what Obama stands for regarding national securtity, economics, tax policxy or social planning.

 

We get the racist rap all the time living in north Idaho. I'm pretty sick of it. Especially since it was mostly conservatives and Republicans who ran the nazis out of town.

[awfulcase]

 

That is, there are about as many idiots who are voting for him because of his race as there are idiots voting against him because of his race.

 

 

Possibly. That said, how much of the black vote would Condoleeza Rice get had she ran for prez?

I would have loved to see Condi Rice running against Carol Moseley Braun, just to see the collective american panties get in a bunch:lol:

[UstadKhanAli]

 

That'd be fascinating!!!!

[Wide]

When whole counties which have been voting democrat for decades vote for McCain all of a sudden, conclusions can be made.

 

For years we have heard democrats say "the one republican I admire and respect is John McCain". Now they don't say that very much

 

About time they STFU about McAmnesty.

[awfulcase]

For years we have heard democrats say "the one republican I admire and respect is John McCain". Now they don't say that very much

 

Oh, even I said the only republican I could arrange myself with being president is John McCain. But him then is not him now. Maverick:facepalm:

 

full disclosure: I'm a permanent resident, not a citizen.

[blue2blue]

 

I don't disagree. I just think In Obama's case it may be that he has plenty of other negatives besides race that would cause people to not vote for him. I'm sure it's a factor at some level but to say that formerly democratic districts are voting McCain simply based on race is simplistic and frankly insulting to the many people who may not like what Obama stands for regarding national securtity, economics, tax policxy or social planning. We get the racist rap all the time living in north Idaho. I'm pretty sick of it. Especially since it was mostly conservatives and Republicans who ran the nazis out of town.

 

 

I'm 100% with you that there are plenty of good reasons to vote -- either way -- that have nothing to do with race.

 

And, clearly, just as many women -- strike that, people -- voted for Hillary Clinton, at least a little, because she was a woman, I think it's fair to say that some people will be voting for Obama because of his mixed heritage -- however they view it. (That is to say, whether they view him as "black" or as an example of someone above the fray of race, a "post-racial" person.)

 

 

All that said, there are also far more than a handful of people out there who continue to put forth a line of thought which is unapologetically racist in the old-fashioned, hood-wearing sense of the word. Anyone who reads editorial page letter columns or comment posts on news sites and blogs knows all too well that there is an insistent and loud subgroup of anti-Obama advocates who consistently appeal to some of the basest racial -- and religious -- fears and hatreds.

 

We should be very clear that those people are not representative of all who oppose or dislike Obama -- but it would be denying an all too painfully obvious reality to suggest that those with an intensely racist agenda do not exist.

[BlueStrat]

 

Oh, even I said the only republican I could arrange myself with being president is John McCain. But him then is not him now. Maverick:facepalm: full disclosure: I'm a permanent resident, not a citizen.

 

 

Actually, he's pretty much the same guy, which is why I'm not a huge fan. He's a conservative in the same way Joe Lieberman is a liberal- in some area a lot, in others not so much.

 

Once again, we're left with Turd Sandwich vs Giant Douche.

[blue2blue]

For years we have heard democrats say "the one republican I admire and respect is John McCain". Now they don't say that very much About time they STFU about McAmnesty.

 

I was a supporter -- and financial contributor -- to McCain's 2000 run. (Maybe I liked all the things about him that BlueStrat didn't. Specifically, I liked the fact that he advocated fiscal conservatism, a move away from the crony politics, and porkbarreling that had dominated the GOP since the Gingrich revolution, and a certain straightforwardness that has since become an empty cliche.)

 

But I feel he has disgraced himself and the party (and after all the disgraces heaped on my Grand Old Party by its own members, that is really saying something) by the gutter campaign of exaggerations, innuendo, and outright lies he has run.

[BlueStrat]

 

the gutter campaign of exaggerations, innuendo, and outright lies he has run.

 

 

It cuts both ways and in equal amounts, from what I can see.

[blue2blue]

 

It cuts both ways and in equal amounts, from what I can see.

 

 

I don't deny that I've been distressed by some of the exaggerations, inaccuracies, and a couple of straight out false statements that have come from the Obama campaign and their ads.

 

But a good look at, say, the non-partisan truth-in-politics organization FactCheck.org's coverage of the campaign quickly reveals that most of the worst has come from the McCain camp.

 

www.FactCheck.org