Stage box for Yamaha digital console

[nickster09]

Hi guys,

can you recommed me stage box brands that works with yamaha consoles such LS9 and M7CL?

 

i would greatly appreiciate any feedback on this matter.

[MikeRivers]

Insufficient information. A stage box is only part of a "snake" system which includes how to get the mic signal from the connectors at the stage end of a cable to the console, and often, from the console back to the stage to feed amplifiers for monitors and house speakers.

 

There used to be only one way to do this - with real wire and analog signals. Now there are digital snakes, and the Yamaha digital consoles, when equipped with the appropriate I/O card, can use a digital snake with the EtherSound protocol (one de facto standard). These are lighter and easier to run than multi-conductor cable, but usually more expensive and, because of the extra digital hardware, less reliable and in general not repairable in the field.

 

What's your application? How many channels? Since you asked about "stage box" specifically, I suspect that you may be looking at the digital one that Yamaha offers (that's what they call it - it connects via EtherSound) and wondering if you can do better or cheaper.

 

So, just what is it that you need?

[gearmike]

I design and sell these types of systems every day. If you are using an LS-9 or M7CL the best bet is Yamaha's Digital Stage Box solution which is modular in 16 mic in and 8 line out blocks. It works over Cat5 using Ethersound and you need to install Ethersound cards in the console.

 

There are other systems that work. I've used the Esnake from Whirlwind, in both Ethersound and Cobranet versions, and higher end ystems like Rocknet, along with using AD8HR's over Ethersound, but bang for the buck, and easy system configuration lead me to the Digital Stage Box solution.

 

If you want to talk more PM me cuz I don't like to pimp on the forum.

[nickster09]

Thanks for the answers

I'm familiar with Yamaha's stage box, but I don't need DSP on my Stage box.

My application requires connecting microphones from the stage to the console, and to send digital straight to the mixers.

I'm searching for other solution, preferably cheaper than Yamaha's S.B.

it would be great if you can recommend such solutions .

 

Thanks.

Nick

[gearmike]

Don't confuse the SB168 with the DSP5D. There is no DSP in the SB168. It's just 16 mic in and 8 line outs. Like I said, I build these systems daily. As far as I know, there is not cheaper way to do what you are asking for.

[MikeRivers]

Thanks for the answers I'm familiar with Yamaha's stage box, but I don't need DSP on my Stage box.

 

"DSP" as a marketing buzzword covers a lot of ground. You need some sort of processing in the box because that's where the analog signal from the microphones is converted to digital and then formatted in a way that the console can understand it.

 

The consoles you're looking at use the EtherSound protocol, a standard developed and maintained by Digigram. Their (Digigram's) web page is a bit out of data, but they have a list of compatible manufacturers. You might look at what Whirlwind has to offer, but I suspect that you'll get the best value from the simple Yamaha box since it's designed to be a companion to a low cost digital console for applications where you don't need the full implementation and all the bells and whistles. .

 

Hooking up a bunch of mics to a console digitally isn't as simple as an analog snake (that option, of course, is available to you) and you should weigh the benefits of a a digital interface as opposed to analog. Since GearMike has a fair amount of experience with these systems, it might be a good idea for you to talk with him by phone and get a sense of what's right for your application.

 

You probably should arm yourself with a little understanding first. Check the Digigram web site and read their Technology paper. If all you need is to get mics in, then perhaps it's better to use a standard multipair snake in to the console's mic inputs. If you need to send signals back out to the same place as the mics come in (the stage) then you're already needing the bi-directional audio capability. And remember, in a digital stage box, the preamps are in the stage box, so you'll need remote gain control (which EtherSound can accommodate) from the console which will also go along your EtherSound cable.

 

Also, if this is going to be for a portable system, you need to think about the cable you'll be using. Plain old cheap UTP Ethernet cable will work, but it's built to be run through walls of a building, not being coiled and uncoiled every day and occasionally run over by a fork lift or hand truck.

 

Lots to think about.

[gearmike]

Ethersound is not the only Protocol to chose from. The console's he's talking about don't offer any native support for what he's looking to do. It can be done via MADI, Ethersound, Cobranet, AES50, there's many ways to skin this cat. All of them require the addition of cards to get the mic signals into the Yamaha console in 16 channel chunks.

 

I have built and tech'ed, and toured with all of these different topologies. Some have advantages and disadvantages. Clock speed, channel count, propogation delay, gain control, all of these have to be considered.

 

By far, the easiest and cheapset way to do it is the SB168 system. You just add SB168 stage boxes and Ethersound Cards in 16 channel groups. then you wire Cat5 cable between everything, set it up once with a computer to define your network, and away you go. It uses the same mic pre's that are already in the M7, so the sound quality is exactly the same as plugging a mic directly into the console.