Will HP spin off its PC business?

[WRGKMC]

This hits close to home because my wife works for them.

It was bad enough when she got laid off from Compaq when it was bought from HP then

eventually got hired by HP. Looks like it could happen again.

Just goes to show you how serious the reccession is hitting all businesses. They just arent upgrading

their equipment enough to keep the #1 manufacturer in the business.

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/238447/hps_pc_business_spinoff_could_benefit_consumers.html

[Goobers]

I don't think it's because of the recession as much as Apple's ascendency.

 

If anything, you'd think HP, which makes some of the cheapest computers, would do better in a recession. But it turns out consumers prefer products that don't suck.

[Ernest Buckley]

I don't think it's because of the recession as much as Apple's ascendency. If anything, you'd think HP, which makes some of the cheapest computers, would do better in a recession. But it turns out consumers prefer products that don't suck.

 

Yeah, I was going to say... this has nothing to do with the recession. Apple destroys the PC... people are finally getting it. Its that simple. I know people hate this debate but the truth is after using a PC for 13 years (one of them was an HP actually) and then going to an Apple, it was a game changer for me. You can say that Apple is hyped, that its expensive, that its more of a cult thing or artsy fartsy but people vote with their feet... meaning they tell you what they want by where they go to spend their money.

 

If they were priced the same, its no contest. iMacs, iPads, iPhones are trendsetters. The problem with the PC world is that it became complacent and stopped thinking... which is a sort of weird coincidence when you think about Apples old saying... Think Different.

 

I`ll get off my Apple podium now but seriously, Apple is now the most valuable company or something? and they also make expensive gadgets and people are spending their hard earned cash still in this recession/economy.

[philbo]

Interesting...and sort of sad. HP once made high quality professional electronics, medical, scientific and optical gear, then spun that off as a separate company (Agilent) so they could concentrate on making disposable landfill fodder-grade consumer PCs.

 

As far as I'm aware, they have never produced anything since then that is worth a crap. Their PC's & printers are notoriously unreliable and designed to die within 2 or 3 years.

[Anderton]

 

I don't think it's because of the recession as much as Apple's ascendency. If anything, you'd think HP, which makes some of the cheapest computers, would do better in a recession. But it turns out consumers prefer products that don't suck.

 

 

The Apple OS market share remains very small compared to the Windows OS market share. But the Apple hardware market share is a whole other story, as it has outpaced PC sales for several years. Part of this requires including the iPad as a computer, which I think is fair. The inability of other companies to produce a tablet that comes even close to the iPad is essentially giving Apple free rein to take over the consumer market - this on top of the iPod, which took over the portable player market, and the iPhone, which set the standard for smartphones - and more and more of those customers who want a desktop are choosing a Mac.

 

Nonetheless, I think the demise of HP has less to do with Apple and more to do with Lenovo and Acer, both of whom have made substantial gains in the PC market. It's important to differentiate the Apple OS from Windows, and Apple hardware from PC manufacturers.

 

But the other thing that can't be emphasized enough in the Mac vs. PC debate is that each one's strengths is also its weakness. The Mac's stability is due to limiting choice. Windows machines place a premium on backward compatibility and freedom to choose hardware, with the tradeoff being less stability and more complex configuration.

 

As I've often mentioned, I use both - I'm typing this on a Mac while my Window machine is rendering a video. Honestly, I just don't see a huge difference between them. I get around the Mac's limitations by having a Windows machine, and get around Windows' limitations by having the hardware integrated by people who really know what they're doing. Problem solved.

 

Expect Apple to continue to advance, but Windows still has a comfortable lead in terms of OS...as long as companies are making PCs, Windows will power them. And if the Mac takes over the world, Microsoft is still in good shape because they don't make hardware, the Mac can run Windows, and there's some pretty compelling Windows-only software.

[The dman]

I agree with Craig it has more to do with competition from other companies and a host of other reasons other than Apple taking over. I don't see corporations dumping their Pc's for Mac's especially during these economic times.

[MikeRivers]

I don't think it has anything to do with the recession or quality of the product. It's a function of the market. People are buying fewer tower, desktop, and laptop computers and buying more tablets and just forgoing computers and using their smart phones. H-P hasn't been very successful in the tablet market and they don't make phones. I think they saw their business dwindling and are getting out while the getting is good. They're big into The Cloud, so maybe they'll figure out how to make money with that.

[blue2blue]

Fanboizm aside, this is not about computers so much as it's about the company's attempts to fortify its position in corporate computing (the highly controversial Compaq acquisition was seen, in large part, to get hold of server makers, DEC and later in the decade they bought the quasi-legendary EDS). That acquisition was fought by stockholder and company loyalists and set the scene for then-CEO Carly Fiorina's forced resignation a few years later. As the decade moved on they tried reaching out to what they had hoped would be new profit centers in mobile computing. That, of course, didn't turn out so well. The acquisition of Palm, to get its WebOS platform, has sputtered into economic disaster, forcing another topside turnover as Mark Hurd was forced out.

 

Folks who insist on couching everything in the my desktop OS can beat up your desktop OS thing crack me up. The big guys are not fighting over the desktop, where margins and profits are relatively small. Apple did not become one of the two richest companies on earth by selling desktop computers. Some people argue that division is not even profitable. It's all about mobile devices, phones, to some extent the tablet market, and the legacy iPod, which has become more poor man's iPhone than mp3 player in many views.

 

Apple's desktop sales increases may look impressive when seen through the lens of their relatively small OS X market share. They may have seen an 11% growth of their marketshare over the last year -- but that still amounts to less than 6% of global computing marketshare, where that growth translated to an increase of about 1/2%.

[blue2blue]

I don't think it has anything to do with the recession or quality of the product. It's a function of the market. People are buying fewer tower, desktop, and laptop computers and buying more tablets and just forgoing computers and using their smart phones. H-P hasn't been very successful in the tablet market and they don't make phones. I think they saw their business dwindling and are getting out while the getting is good. They're big into The Cloud, so maybe they'll figure out how to make money with that.

It's certainly true that great things are predicted from tablet sales -- and they made a big initial splash in the marketplace -- but in my generally tech-savvy, early adopter 3DW crowd, while almost everyone has a smart phone, I've seen almost no tablets. One of the only ones I've seen in operation was the personal device of a guy in my local T-Mobile store (he'd gotten a pretty sweet discount on it). It was a sleek machine and seemed to deliver pretty decent performance, even over 4G (as opposed to WiFi) but... compelling? Not really. it was like a small computer screen with none of the things that make a computer useful. A cyber-teat at which the calf-like can suck content passively. [Er... see what happens when my fur gets up. ] Anyhow, I'm afraid I don't see any must-have uses for a tablet -- of any brand or OS -- myself. When they're a $100 I guess maybe I'll have one sitting on the coffee table or something.

[blue2blue]

This just in...

 

HP TouchPad mania: TouchPads selling out in U.S. at $99.99

 

 

I guess I've got my chance to put a slate on my coffee table sooner than I thought.

 

But for anything else? They got any of those with a keyboard? How about a clamshell case?

 

Consider that kid at the T-Mobile store whose slate was one of the first I'd seen in actual use (well, he and I were playing it while shooting the breeze... that's use, innit?) ... He carried it in a protective clamshell case -- that just happened to hold an auxiliary keyboard... and a mouse.

[Anderton]

 

Apple's desktop sales increases may look impressive when seen through the lens of their relatively small OS X market share. They may have seen an 11% growth of their marketshare over the last year -- but that still amounts to less than 6% of global computing marketshare, where that growth translated to an increase of about 1/2%.

 

 

Yes, but two things - you have to separate the hardware from the software. Although the Mac OS share is small, as a hardware company Apple isn't going against Microsoft, but Dell, HP, Acer, etc. In that arena, they're comparable. But the 800 pound gorilla is the iPad. If you count tablets in with hardware computers, then Apple's market share of new computer sales is projected by some non-fanboy analysts to reach as much as 20% by the end of this year.

[blue2blue]

 

Yes, but two things - you have to separate the hardware from the software. Although the Mac OS share is small, as a hardware company Apple isn't going against Microsoft, but Dell, HP, Acer, etc. In that arena, they're comparable. But the 800 pound gorilla is the iPad. If you count tablets in with hardware computers, then Apple's market share of new computer sales is projected by some non-fanboy analysts to reach as much as 20% by the end of this year.

Mac OS X has 5.61% and iOS has an even 3.00% as measured by these guys: http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?spider=1&qprid=8

 

That's less than 9% currently for the total. Hard to see how they're going to more than double that in a year when it's taken them many years (let's say around a decade, marking the rebirth of Apple at the end of the century as a reasonable 'starting point') to get where they currently are. [EDIT: I see you were talking about sales share, sorry. I don't have my fingers on sales share, but that may be right.]

 

 

 

And let's look at trends... Android currently counts for less than 1% -- but as we know, the expansion of that marketshare is considerably faster than iOS -- even though the benefits are spread across multiple manufacturers. But that is kind of the point.

 

As a single player, there's no question that Apple is currently in good shape. But in the economic ecosystem, they're competing against open systems, and the histories of computing devices and consumer technologies have always favored open systems.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

I don't think it has anything to do with the recession or quality of the product. It's a function of the market. People are buying fewer tower, desktop, and laptop computers and buying more tablets and just forgoing computers and using their smart phones. H-P hasn't been very successful in the tablet market and they don't make phones. I think they saw their business dwindling and are getting out while the getting is good. They're big into The Cloud, so maybe they'll figure out how to make money with that.

 

 

^^ That's my opinion as well. And I agree with Craig's assessment about using Macs vs. PCs. I work on both extensively, and although I enjoy working on a Mac a bit more, they both have strengths and weaknesses, and I don't see one as being all that much greater to use.

[js1]

Computer hardware - very low margins.

Computing and professional services - very high margins.

 

HP has been moving in the directions of services for some time now, most notably with the purchase of EDS some time back and now Autonomy.

 

Exact same move that IBM did years ago.

 

js

[Bookumdano2]

I buy HPs all the time when people dump them out dirt cheap... then I cannablize the insides for whatever I need to "re-invent".

 

Computer, schmuter. They're all the same inside and no bigger deal than a toaster. No need to price them any different than a toaster either nowadays imo. Which could partially explain all the makers who exit the biz.

[Ernest Buckley]

 

Folks who insist on couching everything in the my desktop OS can beat up your desktop OS thing crack me up.

 

 

 

You want to take this outside buddy?

[blue2blue]

 

Let's you and me sit here and have a brandy (make mine near-brandy) like the gentlemen we both clearly are -- and let our OS's step out into the alley. Keep in mind, though, my champion, XP, is lean, mean, and -- if it's getting a bit long in the tooth -- that just means it's got a deeper bite.

 

 

 

________________________

 

 

 

 

So, the webOS slate "fire sale" is clearly the big news of the day... it's more press than HP has had since they canned Fiorina. People are fighting for these things, when they can even find any left...

 

Doesn't it make you wonder if HP might still be in the slate biz if it hadn't sold off this many (however many it is) pads for $99 each right at the top? They'd have had a fervent and grateful user base right from the word go. People would still be talking about what a genius move it would have been. Sure it would have been expensive -- but wasn't buying the damn company and then {censored}canning it only about two years later?

[Anderton]

 

Doesn't it make you wonder if HP might still be in the slate biz if it hadn't sold off this many (however many it is) pads for $99 each right at the top?

 

 

When Circuit City had its "all CDs $9.99" sales several years ago, the stores were MOBBED with people buying CDs. I always felt $9.99 was the "magic" price point for CDs - I really think you can trace the end of the CD to when companies were idiotic enough to raise the standard price from $15.99 to $16.99 and even $17.99 because they thought they could get away with it for top artists. I think history has shown they couldn't get away with it.

[Surrealistic]

... It's important to differentiate the Apple OS from Windows, and Apple hardware from PC manufacturers. But the other thing that can't be emphasized enough in the Mac vs. PC debate is that each one's strengths is also its weakness. The Mac's stability is due to limiting choice. Windows machines place a premium on backward compatibility and freedom to choose hardware, with the tradeoff being less stability and more complex configuration.

Exactly what I was going to say except you said it more succinctly

 

Personally I can't imagine ever buying a Mac. I don't see the point when I have the flexibility to buy or build whatever system I want and put any operating system I like on it. The reason I happen to have Windows on mine is nothing to do with the intrinsic qualities of the OS itself (Unix is a MUCH better OS than Windows) but simply because of the software investment I've made.

[MikeRivers]

 

H-P hasn't been very successful in the tablet market and they don't make phones. Not quite true. I have a Palm Pre sitting right next to me as I type this. Palm is HP.

 

 

That was so yesterday. Who buys Palms any more? If HP is selling any Palms any more, they probably sell as many in a year as Apple sells iPhones in a week. But then what do I know? You got one, I don't, so you might care about its future (or maybe you don't), but I don't.

[Surrealistic]

That was so yesterday. Who buys Palms any more? If HP is selling any Palms any more, they probably sell as many in a year as Apple sells iPhones in a week. But then what do I know? You got one, I don't, so you might care about its future (or maybe you don't), but I don't.

I didn't say I cared Mike. I just pointed out the error. I have a new Palm and it's great for what I paid for it; i.e. nothing

[Ernest Buckley]

When Circuit City had its "all CDs $9.99" sales several years ago, the stores were MOBBED with people buying CDs. I always felt $9.99 was the "magic" price point for CDs - I really think you can trace the end of the CD to when companies were idiotic enough to raise the standard price from $15.99 to $16.99 and even $17.99 because they thought they could get away with it for top artists. I think history has shown they couldn't get away with it.

 

When I was in HS, I would often go down the street to Tower Records and hang out there listening to all types of music. Lots of times, I wandered into the Classical Music Section and would scrounge up a couple of $$ to buy a cassette tape or those budget CDs... then you would see someone come along with a basket full of CDs and spend $150-$300. I was always amazed by that. It was only a couple of years later that I was able to do the same thing.

 

To me, the $9.99 price tag was attractive but it was not the deciding factor. I remember most popular CDs being around $12.99 or sometimes even $16.99. The first CD I ever bought, Motley Crues Dr. Feelgood for $16.99. For an 18 year old kid, it was a little steep but the sound was so much better than the cassette so I was willing to pay. Now, I would easily shell out $20 for multiple mixes of a record.

 

@ Blue... brandy sounds good.

[MikeRivers]

I didn't say I cared Mike. I just pointed out the error. I have a new Palm and it's great for what I paid for it; i.e. nothing

 

And it will probably always be worth at least what you paid for it, so it's not such a bad investment.

 

I didn't say HP never made anything like this, It just seems that they aren't doing so well in that corner of the busniess since they have some real competition.

 

I always thought that Palm was from Dell, but maybe they just bought them from HP. HP has a TouchPad "tablet" (the one that's selling like hotcakes at $99, and a series of smart phones called "pre" but how long has it been since they made something called the Palm?

[Surrealistic]

... a series of smart phones called "pre" but how long has it been since they made something called the Palm?

That's the one - the Palm Pre. As is often the case with many "HP products", what we're really talking about here is a product made by a company that HP bought out.