I was asked to give feedback to a 'music opportunities' website today...

[gubu]

...here is what I posted:-

 

 

 

With the greatest of respect. Your website is not at all different from the numerous others which claim to offer musicians and songwriters access to all kinds of opportunities, when the reality is they only serve to extract money from the gullible. If any of these companies were so good at generating business for clients, why would they need to charge the 'talent' up front? It seems that all this talk of data mining and new paradigms in the sourcing and promotion of product serves only to mask the core business, which is making a few dollars out of every single transaction that happens on your website. This has nothing to do with creativity and everything to do with trying to extract money from a market, period. I've heard countless recommendations of these kinds of sites from friends over the last 5 or 6 years. They tell me how this company is going to help them license their music and get it promoted etc. etc. My answer is always the same:- "How much is that going to cost you?" If any of these companies actually cared about the music, they would find artists that they believed in and use their legal and business minds to generate genuine income from their music. This process of basically charging a fee to everyone who comes in contact with your company and letting computer algorithms decide what will sell, and where, is not dissimilar from the complex and ultimately disastrous derivatives formulae which brought the world of finance to it's knees 3 years ago. But good luck with it anyway.

 

 

Too cranky?

 

They did ask.

[blue2blue]

Well... it's clear we share a certain cynicism about those whose business model is exploiting the secret dreams of many musicians. But, of course, without knowing the particulars it's hard to know whether your cynicism was warranted.

 

I don't have a problem with people offering real services for money... to a point. But, let's face it, musicians are a hopeful, big-dreaming lot and that fact, at least for those who haven't kicked around in the real biz, makes them a lot easier to lead on, even without outright deception.

 

Honestly, one of the reasons I took down my shingle (as it were) on my old project studio and went fully back to day job land was because I found dealing with the often unrealistic dreams of some clients troubling. Often those dreams are hidden away because, even to the dreamer, they sound naive. But in the course of a project, folks open up.

 

That discomfort is why I typically emphasize to amateur and semi-pro songwriters and musicians that they should make music for the love of music and the joy of craft first and foremost.

 

I've seen too many fine musicians get so caught up in the trying to make it game, typically 'led on' (sometimes innocently enough) by a number of service providers (like my fellow small studio owners, but also, of course, salesmen of all sorts, from music retailers to those of the sorts of 'career advancement' services that sparked this)... and then there are the managers, agents, and labels -- that's where a lot of real villainy and exploitation often concentrates.

 

Those dreamers -- many of whom have significant talent and at least start out making good, interesting, non-cookie cutter music that could find an audience -- go through the fake-star-maker machinery which tells them how to dress, what they should play and how they should play it, what their press kit should look like, how their album should be recorded and produced, even how to copy specific bands and sounds in order, supposedly, to enhance their chance for success.

 

And, after beating their heads on that system for 5, 10, 15 years, they finally walk away in disgust, hoping to reclaim the lives they set aside before their 'big adventure' in the music biz. And far too many of that cohort then all but stop making music. They've had their heads twisted up by the biz so much that they blame music for their disappointment and the lingering disgust they often feel for their time in the music business.

[gubu]

Well, I'm not going to name the website.

 

I was getting tired of endless emails that always run along the lines of "Name producer, of name act fame, wants to hear YOUR MUSIC. Log in to submit YOUR music", or somesuch. It can cost between $15-$50 to make a single submission and the whole thing is basically pointless. If your music is good enough, you don't need to pay to have it heard. And, as I said in the quoted text above, if they were as good at generating business as they advertised, they wouldn't need to charge the creatives in this way.

 

You would be better off busking IMO. You're still getting your music 'out there' and are guaranteed to make a few shillings.

 

That is not to say that there are not some honourable licensing companies out there on the net, because there are. But companies like this one are basically turning people upside down and shaking money out of their pockets.

 

They never got a red cent from me BTW

[blue2blue]

Oh, yeah, I wasn't asking for the name, that would have been indiscreet, to be sure.

 

But I think you probably caught the flavor of my attitudes toward some of these folks from my post.

 

For sure, there are real licensing companies out there that are in the business of actually finding music for various video, film, advertising and other productions, but, I've never heard of any of those charging up front money just to listen.

 

That said, anyone who uses the ReverbNation site and hasn't blocked their 'opportunity notification' emails has surely been inundated with pay-to-dream 'opportunities' from everything from songwriting contests to "festivals" -- who want anything from $5 to as much as $75 just to consider your music. (I only recently found out RN doesn't take any cut from those. See below.)

 

Of course, there are actually occasionally even 'real' opportunities buried in there. I got one -- I knew it was 'real' because instead of going to all of my RN artist accounts, it only went to one of them and didn't charge anything -- unfortunately, it was buried in a snowbank of pay-top-dream 'opportunities' and I didnt' find it for many months when I was sorting through and thinning out old email.

 

FWIW, that whole 'opportunity notification' thing bugged me so much I finally sent RN a quite pointed email expressing my misgivings. The person who wrote me back was apologetic -- and, somewhat crucially -- insisted that ReverbNation does not take any cut from those 'opportunity' fees charged by so many of the 'opportunity' providers. Which actually made me feel considerably better about RN.

 

But a pox on the greedy SOBs who make a business out of dangling bogus opportunities in front of gullible dreamers.

[TieDyedDevil]

 

...here is what I posted:- Too cranky? They did ask.

 

 

Bravo!

[Ernest Buckley]

 

...here is what I posted:- Too cranky? They did ask.

 

 

Absolutely not. You`re right on, I completely agree. I get solicited all the time via emails and the occasional phone call... I even had a guy personally call me telling me he had a radio station in Canada or somewhere distant and that he "loved" my music, that he wanted to interview me on his show, etc...

 

He's like, "I was streaming your record, Be Your Own and I really love the songs, I can tell you put everything into this. I would love to talk to you about the process of writing and producing this record."

 

So I ask him, "Whats your favorite song on the record?"

 

He stutters over this... "Oh, well, you know, its a really strong record so its really hard to say any song sticks out... la la la la la...."

 

I just couldn't believe this guy actually took the time to call me... he actually did send me some info via email and he really was a radio talk show personality! But his gimmick was that to be on his show, you had to pay!

 

Just amazing the lengths that people will go to to make some $$$.

[blue2blue]

 

But his gimmick was that to be on his show, you had to pay!

Despite the fact that, of course in our context here, I saw this coming the whole time... I still groaned when I got to the punchline.

 

Love to have access to a recording (so I could fast-forward) of this guy's radio show -- along with his Arbitron or whatever ratings apply.

 

A radio show solely consisting of artists who are so hard up for exposure that they're willing to pay to be played on what is likely a very late night slot on some podunk, Canuck radio station? That does not sound inspiring.

[Anderton]

I agree too, but I would except Broadjam.com as "one of those sites." I do some mastering for their clients, and quite a few of them have managed to license their music though advisories they receive via email of who's looking for what. I also like that the site is upfront that the odds are stacked against you, and while they do charge for submissions, I think it's like $5 or something nominal (I presume to keep out the riffraff). But, they're also not about getting signed to a major label etc. It's more about placing music for commercials, TV, movies, etc. so it doesn't really appeal to people who have dreams. Rather it seems designed for people who need to pay the bills

[gubu]

Well, I figured that there must be a few people on here that have had done some business from either side of one of these pay per 'opportunity' portals. If an artist gains some benefit from using them, then good for them.

 

The problem I had with this particular site is the uber-agressive marketing and promotion that is targeted at artists. I'm getting an email a day exhorting me to submit music to this, that or the other producer/catalogue, and all I did was sign up to the site. If only a small percentage of submissions are successful in generating any business for the artists, then it is fair to say that they are exploiting gullible people in the name of a dollar.

 

Yes, payola and pay-to-play are as old as radio stations, and yes, the old maxim 'never give a sucker an even break' is probably one of the keystones of profitability in any business. But the way this company operates does not sit well with me at all, as I've already clearly outlined

 

[Anderton]

 

Well, I figured that there must be a few people on here that have had done some business from either side of one of these pay per 'opportunity' portals. If an artist gains some benefit from using them, then good for them.

 

 

I think the main difference between Broadjam and what you describe is that Broadjam doesn't solicit members to submit material. They put the requirements out there and if a member thinks they have something appropriate, they can give it a shot. The requirements are often quite specific - "Need uptempo song in major key, no vocals, 1:43 seconds, no fade out (hard ending) for scene where guy jumps into lake during summer vacation. Same kind of vibe as 'Walking on Sunshine'." (That's not a real one, but you get the idea.)

 

But, what I'm saying should NOT be interpreted as anything other than I've found ONE company that has figured out what it wants to do and done it in a specific way that makes sense. Most of what I've seen out there are scams.

[techristian]

I agree too, but I would except Broadjam.com as "one of those sites." I do some mastering for their clients, and quite a few of them have managed to license their music though advisories they receive via email of who's looking for what. I also like that the site is upfront that the odds are stacked against you, and while they do charge for submissions, I think it's like $5 or something nominal (I presume to keep out the riffraff). But, they're also not about getting signed to a major label etc. It's more about placing music for commercials, TV, movies, etc. so it doesn't really appeal to people who have dreams. Rather it seems designed for people who need to pay the bills

 

This sounds a lot like http://www.taxi.com/ . I have been getting their emails for years. Same thing, "Producer of TV Series needs song THIS FRIDAY in the flavor of"

 

Dan