Does Jazz music have a "limited emotional expressivity" ?

[rasputin1963]

I remember, when I was studying Music in University, we had rather strict-minded teachers. Our purview was strictly "white European male composers before 1900".

 

Anything American, African-flavored, jazz-flavored or rock-flavored was definitely out, and if any of us chirped up about jazz in class, or admitted to liking rock, the teacher and the whole class would spin around to glare and frown at you, as though you'd just cut a big fart. Even 20th century composers were dismisssed with a roll of the eyes.

 

Finally, one day I worked up the nerve to ask my Prof: "Just why do we never discuss Jazz ideas or Jazz harmonies or Afro-American musics in this class."

 

He sort of sniffed, looked pained, and said, "The general feeling is that jazz music simply does not have the emotional range or serious intent as Classical music."

 

 

HCSSS'ers, what do you think about this pronouncement? (Note that the class was simply called MUSIC HISTORY. It had no date or country delineations).

[Vito Corleone]

 

He sort of sniffed, looked pained, and said, "The general feeling is that jazz music simply does not have the emotional range or serious intent as Classical music." HCSSS'ers, what do you think about this pronouncement?

 

 

Typical snobbish response from one who doesn't understand, nor desires to understand, music that doesn't personally appeal to him.

 

It's an almost innate human response to put down things we don't really understand or like as being innately inferior. And you see that response all throughout music. There's another thread going now about "why do younger people like classic rock?" And the general consensus from classic rock fans seems to be that it is because most modern music lacks the same "emotional range" as the classic stuff.

 

The more things change, they more they stay the same it seems....

[A. Einstein]

 

Does Jazz music have a "limited emotional expressivity" ?

 

 

on the contrary, Jazz is one of most expressive music genre, very direct from the performer's mind to the recipient,

 

of course much became also cliche with the hobby Jazzer, but I don't give a damn about anybody who doesn't have a certain amount of originality in music,

 

or should I listen to some Miles Davis copies, or some Xerox of John Coltrane, some hobbyist who cover a ong from the past I heard a hundred time from the original artist, or what?

[A. Einstein]

 

And the general consensus from classic rock fans seems to be that it is because most modern music lacks the same "emotional range" as the classic stuff.

 

 

Those are typical opinions of people who are stuck with their own narrow ideas, comparable to the folks who propagated rock is a mental illness, a degradation of civilisation,

 

folks who talk about music they where listen to when they where young, are total boring, actually it should be illegal that such dullard are permittet to listen to music at all, then we wouldn't have to listen to their nonsense ideas what music is and what not

[Raymar]

I'd say no, jazz just expresses emotions its way, same for classical music. Sounds like your professor was stuck in the past. I'm sort of the same way, I find it harder to get into newer music unless it reflects older music, also I find it much easier to get into way older music than I grew up with, its easier for me to look back than forward. For instance I'll never get hyper-over-edited electronica with its glitches and auto-tuned vocals. There's a yogurt shop that loves to play this stuff and makes me exit as quick as possible. However not everything from the past is golden either, I still don't care for a lot of big band stuff regardless of its arrangements, it just sucks on steroids. Symphonies that play a lot of romantic high strings that go on and on, peeuuke! Also marches and bombastic classical stuff puts me off, and I'm not an opera man. Funk fusion is a real irritant to my ears. Fast death metal, sounds like a machine gun going off, too pro war. I can picture soldiers in the middle east listening to this stuff as they snuff people or gamers fantasizing they're in a blood bath.

[A. Einstein]

emotions are emotions,

 

but not all people react the same to whatever reaches their senses

 

most boring is when people tell me what they don't like, sounds each time as if the patient explains me his mental limits, his non-talent to recognize what is also good apart from the {censored} he likes so much

[Lee Knight]

...if any of us chirped up about jazz in class, or admitted to liking rock, the teacher and the whole class would spin around to glare and frown at you, as though you'd just cut a big fart.

 

You missed your opportunity. As soon as everyone would "spin around to glare", you should've raised your palm, buried your face in the pit of your raised arm with a pained expression and said, "Wait... wait for it." And then farted.

 

Animals don't feel pain like we do. So you're not hurting that June Bug by throwing it on the BBQ.

 

African Americans don't see color as well as white people (that's why they like the bright colors. You see dear?)

 

Mexican Americans have picnics with big groups so they can protect each other. They're all crooks and need to watch for the cops.

 

And Jazz has limited emotional expressivity. Your teachers were pretty freakin' stupid. I'm assuming you knew that already.

 

[video=youtube;WEyETVtEg3A]

 

[video=youtube;Nv2GgV34qIg]

 

[video=youtube;HS2BUr83O-8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS2BUr83O-8

[A. Einstein]

And Jazz has limited emotional expressivity. Your teachers were pretty freakin' stupid. I'm assuming you knew that already.

 

You have a very diplomatic wicked way to {censored} on people.

 

[Lee Knight]

You have a very diplomatic wicked way to {censored} on people.

 

No, no... we were {censored}ting on his teachers together. No, wait...

[A. Einstein]

From a pathological point it is very interesting that you blame the recipients of Jazz, their eventual snobism or whatever, but don't seem to have the slightest clue what the music is, the Jazz.

 

 

 

I feel pretty much the same. Jazz grates on me and so far has yet to avail itself as the soother of this savage breast. It's not a sour grapes haranguing I generally foist upon the genre at all. It just has none of the musical qualities I value in music. When it is unavoidable for any certain period of time to my ear it can get me in an irritable mood. I liken it to street lobbyists seeking universal approval of non-universal applications or causes. Their innocent intent has never done anything worse than cause a slightly annoying delay. Said another way, jazz is one of those things people will attempt to like but...not really. Now, for the sake of engaging in social discourse on the subject of music I can't credit or discredit it one way or the other. I simply state that it doesn't appeal to me. What bothers me about jazz is it has a very defensive following. Much more so than any other genre, jazz fans consider themselves the real hipsters in the alphabet soup of music's hipster wannabes. They will witness any other genre and extricate from them all the fundamentals that are borrowed and embodied in jazz. That explained, they will argue that jazz is a fusion of all music and therefore anyone who dismisses it out of hand can't possibly be knowledgeable or appreciative of music. It's the people of jazz, not the music itself, that grates on my nerves the most. But, there are always people who will ruin a good thing if the opportunity to do so is free.

 

[UstadKhanAli]

He sort of sniffed, looked pained, and said, "The general feeling is that jazz music simply does not have the emotional range or serious intent as Classical music." HCSSS'ers, what do you think about this pronouncement? (Note that the class was simply called MUSIC HISTORY. It had no date or country delineations).

 

It's horrifying that this person even teaches. This is so obviously wrong I wouldn't even know where to begin, so my reaction is this:

[UstadKhanAli]

I'd say no, jazz just expresses emotions its way, same for classical music. Sounds like your professor was stuck up his ass.

 

So so fix't!

[blue2blue]

I remember, when I was studying Music in University, we had rather strict-minded teachers. Our purview was strictly "white European male composers before 1900". Anything American, African-flavored, jazz-flavored or rock-flavored was definitely out, and if any of us chirped up about jazz in class, or admitted to liking rock, the teacher and the whole class would spin around to glare and frown at you, as though you'd just cut a big fart. Even 20th century composers were dismisssed with a roll of the eyes. Finally, one day I worked up the nerve to ask my Prof: "Just why do we never discuss Jazz ideas or Jazz harmonies or Afro-American musics in this class." He sort of sniffed, looked pained, and said, "The general feeling is that jazz music simply does not have the emotional range or serious intent as Classical music." HCSSS'ers, what do you think about this pronouncement? (Note that the class was simply called MUSIC HISTORY. It had no date or country delineations).

As someone who has seen well over 140 symphonic concerts, I'd say it's a buncha hooey.

[A. Einstein]

 

Our purview was strictly "white European male composers before 1900". Anything American, African-flavored, jazz-flavored or rock-flavored was definitely out,

 

 

 

Mama mia, you studied music at a momosexual Christian KKK University?

[RockViolin]

Was this while you were at Berkeley, Ras?

[philbo]

It's horrifying that this person even teaches. This is so obviously wrong I wouldn't even know where to begin, so my reaction is this:

 

There are only 3 classes of people: Those who do, those who teach, and those who debate about the other two on forums. I used to teach, I used to do, but lately I fall more into the third group...

[yanktar]

I have NO idea where that asshole of a teacher was coming from. I studied "Classical" music for many years and long ago came to the conclusion that there is no such thing as "Classical Music". In its own day it was popular music. Much was dance music for jigs (Gigue), minuets, and waltzes (Valse). The waltz is STILL a living, popular dance today--just look at DWTS. Bach wasn't writing "Classical Music". He was writing new music for his church every Sunday while the pastor was writing his sermon. Mozart was writing musicals for popular consumption, back when it was called "Opera" but wasn't stuffy and elitist.

 

And to ignore even early 20th cent giants like Vaughn Williams, Holst, Ives, Copeland, Orff and Stravinsky is just plain, well STUPID! (and ignorant)

 

As for the statement that Jazz doesn't have "real" emotion....well, Hitler said the same thing before banning it.

[A. Einstein]

maybe it has to do that people in America have not much of a clue what "classical music" is, similar as the average Italian has no clue what Chinese music is?

 

I made my diploma at a conservatory, we analysed anything in the composition classes, including Samuel Barber, Aaron Copeland, around the globe and down to Bali

[A. Einstein]

As for the statement that Jazz doesn't have "real" emotion....well, Hitler said the same thing before banning it.

 

 

was is not Nixon who asked Miles Davis at a banquet in Washington if he is a race car pilot?

[RockViolin]

And to ignore even early 20th cent giants like Vaughn Williams, Holst, Ives, Copeland, Orff and Stravinsky is just plain, well STUPID! (and ignorant)

 

Well, it's not unheard of for a prof to stipulate that the music lit class he/she is teaching deals with a certain time frame, for various reasons. To say it's about emotion or the lack of is silly though. Nutty professors do exist.

 

My dad had a composition teacher at the U of Iowa, back in the 50's, that told him he was too concerned with how his music sounds.

[b_goatman]

My wife took a conducting class in college. The professor was your stereotypical narrow-minded classical type, except for one thing: he thought Frank Zappa was a genius.

 

It's great to discuss this stuff, like so many other subjective things.

[A. Einstein]

 

... that told him he was too concerned with how his music sounds.

 

 

that's a very good tip,

 

did your father draw the right comclusion and acted accordingly?

[RockViolin]

 

that's a very good tip, did your father draw the right comclusion and acted accordingly?

 

 

I'm not sure. It was always just a laugh between us. My dad's music, and the music he loved, didn't line up well with atonality, tone rows, etc. Composition by numbers that sounds like nonsense.

I think I know what the prof, and you are getting at. Still, on the face of it, it seems like a preposterous statement.

[RockViolin]

it's not unheard of

 

 

Also not unheard of is the jazzer with a camel on his back. I wish I had a dollar for every one I've come across. It's not like you guys can't get a gig.

[yanktar]

was is not Nixon who asked Miles Davis at a banquet in Washington if he is a race car pilot?

 

I'm certainly not going to step forward to defend Richard Nixon, the man who did more to corrupt our political system than anyone before Newt Gingrich and Tom DeLay, who actively and deliberately courted backward Southern White racists into the GOP where they now form the reactionary wing of the Republican party. It's only for George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, and a couple of imbeciles from the 1800's, that Nixon doesn't rank as the worst US president ever.