Members sventvkg Posted October 21, 2012 Members Share Posted October 21, 2012 What's the point since they began charging for people to be able to see your posts. The sooner that site dies the better in my opinion.... I have a hate, tollerate relationship with FB and have deleted my own personal account 3 times only to start a new one. The primary reason is that people don't seem to want to communicate any other way and for songwriting stuff, rounds etc it's all done via Facebook..much to my chagrin..Anyone else feel the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members techristian Posted October 22, 2012 Members Share Posted October 22, 2012 Can people see the comments that you post on your personal Facebook pages ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members David Abraham Posted October 22, 2012 Members Share Posted October 22, 2012 Yep FB's objective is to set itself up as the primary means for the world to communicate, then charge for it. No doubt they will eventually tax private messages as well. Best bet for now is to double down on your twitter strategy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rotren Posted October 22, 2012 Members Share Posted October 22, 2012 I think Facebook is becoming way more important than it should ever need to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 22, 2012 Members Share Posted October 22, 2012 Originally Posted by techristian Can people see the comments that you post on your personal Facebook pages ? It all depends on how you have your privacy settings set. And, of course, how your friends have their filter settings set. People who post a lot of personal promo (or political stuff or... ) probably get filtered out by their long suffering friends. The pay-to-be-seen issue that Sean is referring to is a priority placement that you can pay for.I don't know how much impact it has had so far, but in the future it might be that regular content is crowded out by paid content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members peanutroad Posted October 22, 2012 Members Share Posted October 22, 2012 I left FB last week. Everything -- profile and pages -- and it is permanent this time (like Sean, I've made previous attempts at breaking the addiction). It just doesn't seem worth the effort. Aside from the question as to whether anyone is actually going to see ones posts, I've always been bothered by the fact that it is somewhat of a closed system. I want my stuff to be readily found and read by anyone, whether a member of Face Book or not. Folks can Google me and find my site, my blogs, etc, so who needs FB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members David Abraham Posted October 22, 2012 Members Share Posted October 22, 2012 Facebook's goal is to make the news feed a new kind of TV, where in order to get seen you have to pay for eyeballs. But anybody who invested in building up their fan page just got punked. (Including the big guys) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted October 22, 2012 Members Share Posted October 22, 2012 Yah, I don't find it too surprising that they are charging people to advertise on their platform. There are a lot of things that I don't like about FB, and there are a lot of really troubling issues ranging from general privacy issues to how "engineered" the experience is for a system that seems to just be a bunch of comment streams. But Facebook is not all that different (and is a big step up) from services like AOL, Hotmail, CompuServe, Prodigy... the older systems that let people who aren't as tech savvy congregate and use the internet to share information. There are a ton of other serves that are similar which have come and gone (check out my livejournal!), and FB isn't any different. However, there is a lot of value in that congregation of people, and -of course- they are going to try and leverage that to create revenue. And here's one better: if you didn't find value in that community, then why would you want to use it for marketing to begin with? It might not be worth as much as they are charging to hit eyeballs (in fact, it might have never been a cost effective marketing tool), but it does have a community and targeting a message to that community has value for a lot of folks. Perhaps if you feel that you are "part of" the community because you create content for it and because people "want" to hear your marketing message you might feel like you're getting screwed, but to be blunt, if you're marketing... you're marketing. I don't care if you're selling pepsi, farmville, or your band, you're still interjecting markting info into Facebook streams and it isn't surprising that they not only control that access but charge for that access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 22, 2012 Members Share Posted October 22, 2012 They've been offering to advertise your posts for a while, so I'm not sure why this is suddenly an issue. I'm really enjoying the interaction I have with other good photographers from all over the world, so I love it personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 22, 2012 Members Share Posted October 22, 2012 Originally Posted by scarecrowbob Yah, I don't find it too surprising that they are charging people to advertise on their platform.There are a lot of things that I don't like about FB, and there are a lot of really troubling issues ranging from general privacy issues to how "engineered" the experience is for a system that seems to just be a bunch of comment streams.But Facebook is not all that different (and is a big step up) from services like AOL, Hotmail, CompuServe, Prodigy... the older systems that let people who aren't as tech savvy congregate and use the internet to share information. There are a ton of other serves that are similar which have come and gone (check out my livejournal!), and FB isn't any different.However, there is a lot of value in that congregation of people, and -of course- they are going to try and leverage that to create revenue.And here's one better: if you didn't find value in that community, then why would you want to use it for marketing to begin with? It might not be worth as much as they are charging to hit eyeballs (in fact, it might have never been a cost effective marketing tool), but it does have a community and targeting a message to that community has value for a lot of folks.Perhaps if you feel that you are "part of" the community because you create content for it and because people "want" to hear your marketing message you might feel like you're getting screwed, but to be blunt, if you're marketing... you're marketing.I don't care if you're selling pepsi, farmville, or your band, you're still interjecting markting info into Facebook streams and it isn't surprising that they not only control that access but charge for that access. Well observed. FB is, in a sense, merely one of the most recent in a long line of social wrappers for the internet. It didn't escape my attention that FB rose in popularity around the same time in the mid-late 2000s when email was becoming an increasingly perilous (and just plain spammed up) mode of communication for the unwary/unsavvy. And its embrace of 'micro-blogging' gave those who might not have enough steady content to sustain a full blog or whose content was simply of such narrow interest -- or of a personal nature -- that putting it in front of an audience comprised of friends and relatives just made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Folder Posted October 22, 2012 Members Share Posted October 22, 2012 Originally Posted by peanutroad I've always been bothered by the fact that it is somewhat of a closed system. I heard a lot about Facebook and what a great site it was so I thought I'd check it out. My thought was I'd just browse around for a while to see if I liked it. If I liked it enough I might decide to sign up for an account.This is what I saw:http://www.facebook.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted October 22, 2012 Members Share Posted October 22, 2012 Originally Posted by UstadKhanAli They've been offering to advertise your posts for a while, so I'm not sure why this is suddenly an issue. They have gotten a lot more agressive in how they sculpt the UX-- they cut out a lot of content that previously was there and they add a lot of paid content that previously was absent.There are two problems with this. From the casual user side, it's starting to fail a kind of Turing test: it seems like there are more ads, and that makes everything seem like an ad. People have a much higher tolerance for "content", even if the content is really a marketing message. "Ads" are almost always either tuned out or seen as annoying, whereas the marketing that they are used to on facebook ( 'like this cute kitten, and now you're getting our product updates'-- which most people can turn off) was a lot more subtle.The second problem is from the marketers side.Previously, you could get a lot of visibility on people's pages with the main cost being the community management. You can still get some traction in that direction, but as it has been explained to me you have to game it a lot more heavily in order to get your content out in front of people. There are a couple of ways to look at that: if you're a marketer (and in this segment, let's be clear that I'm talking about folks marketing their band or music or whatever small business products) it's frustrating because it messes with your program and increases your overhead... but if your FB you're just upping the price to play the game, and I suspect that they have little problem losing a bunch of non-paying marketers in order to create a revenue stream from "real" (i.e. people with budgets) marketers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 22, 2012 Members Share Posted October 22, 2012 Originally Posted by scarecrowbob They have gotten a lot more agressive in how they sculpt the UX-- they cut out a lot of content that previously was there and they add a lot of paid content that previously was absent. Jeeez, I didn't know that...never noticed that. And pardon my ignorance, but what's "UX"?FB is effed up in a lot of ways, that's for sure. I just really enjoy it, especially since I've begun interacting on several pages and interacting with other photographers. It's such an easy way to share photos and discuss techniques that I've been having so much fun. I just hope that FB doesn't ruin that enjoyment. Between that and LinkedIn, I've met and interacted with so many talented professional photographers, and it's been overwhelmingly positive (i.e., almost no meatheads or aggressive spammers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted October 22, 2012 Members Share Posted October 22, 2012 Jeeez, I didn't know that...never noticed that. And pardon my ignorance, but what's "UX"? I like FB, too... I work from home, and it is a lot of my day to day socializing... and as much as people like to hate on it it can be a really nice service-- which is why it has such a massive user base.UX is User Experience: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_experienceIn this case, what I am referring to is that basically, FB amplifies stuff that gets likes and hide stuff that doesn't get attention, which seems like a sane thing as it kills a bunch of noise. But this lack of "noise"... or difference between what people are actually posting and what you see... isn't something people can experience first hand, because you simply can't know what you missed because of inattention or what was hidden by facebook. However, you can have the experience of feeling like there are a lot more unwanted ads... seriously, I don't need FB to tell me that my friends like a certain brand of bottled water and that ad in the feed does read, even to people half-asleep, as advertising.The effect, though is that most of your "friends" don't see many of your posts unless the post gets "liked" or you pay to have it shown to a wider audience.Just to see what it was all about, I actually paid to promote one of my posts, and chose one that I thought would get a lot of likes anyhow... it seems very suspicious to me, as they won't tell you (at least for profile posts) how many people saw a post, just what percentage of them were shown it only because FB promoted it... which is around 85%. I suppose that you do get reach and page view statistics on FB "pages," so I will try that out next time I'm feeling curious. But for all I know they could be making up numbers . It's a scam, but historically that isn't strange for advertising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Philter Posted October 22, 2012 Members Share Posted October 22, 2012 Originally Posted by sventvkg What's the point since they began charging for people to be able to see your posts. The sooner that site dies the better in my opinion....I have a hate, tollerate relationship with FB and have deleted my own personal account 3 times only to start a new one. The primary reason is that people don't seem to want to communicate any other way and for songwriting stuff, rounds etc it's all done via Facebook..much to my chagrin..Anyone else feel the same? I've been trying to set up a local add for my studio on Facebook for a month now, but there's some kind of hold on my account related to "unusual payment activity." This is in spite of the fact that I have never paid for a thing on Facebook, nor entered a credit card or done any other kind of transaction. I've sent numerous requests to help from tech support and after a month received nothing back but form emails. If I owned Facebook stock I would sell it all; this is not a company to do business with. Great free service, but forget about paying them for anything. Google, although also far from perfect or even ideal, was at least competent enough to take my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 I think many people have this misconception that FB or any other social media site is going to generate lots of fans/revenue without some initial $$$. I mean, why else have an online presence? The whole point is to share what you do and make some $$$ while we`re at it. Right? I was actually paying a $25 monthly fee to have FB promote my stuff last year. I increased my fan base to around 40 people but was it worth the $250 it costs for 10 months when not one of those people purchased a CD? No. Then again, theres a small part of me that finds it cool that people in South America, Japan, Canada, and Europe are listening to my stuff but it doesn`t pay any bills. If they lowered the fee to $10/month, I may do it again but for that price, what kind of service should I expect? It`s not a bad thing if FB wants to charge for these things, its business like anything else. The question for me is, will it look and behave professionally and will it actually generate some $$$. Was anyone actually believing FB would be free always and forever? Honestly, if they start charging, I`ll probably bail. The value it has added to my life? Not much. It`s nice to stay in touch with people but I also find that I`m not calling friends as much as I used to so... I`m just saying that at the end of the day what it comes down to is, what are you willing to pay to have an online presence and what are you willing to pay to generate interest in your product/music? For me, having a website (launching soon I promise, thanks to Blue) and a page where someone can purchase my stuff is great. If people like it and it displays my material in a professional matter, I don`t mind paying for it. If FB designs a professional looking product where I can display my material, whats the problem? I see it as another way to share and hopefully make some $$$. Let`s not forget, you have to invest $$$, to make $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 I haven't paid any of those fees for my Ken Lee Facebook Photography page. I would be interested to hear about how much those help. Considering that I haven't paid anything, FB has still paid off. Through FB, I have increased my online presence, obtained work or photos in magazines, won numerous contests (and therefore prizes or money), improved my photography by interacting with lots of other professional photographers, and been a great interactive way to share photos and discuss techniques. The last two are particularly important to me. My photography page has over 1600 "likes", a good amount for only having a page for about a year. I may be the exception, though, as I get a lot more out of FB than most people, I would think. At any rate, I definitely enjoy it. As always, YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 Ken, I think photography/art is completely different than music as far as sales... How is your music selling online? EB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley Ken, I think photography/art is completely different than music as far as sales... I totally agree, so much so that I was going to say something about that in my last post. How is your music selling online?EB With a combination of my stuff and stuff I've played on (my bands, etc.), I don't make very much, maybe a few hundred a year at most, sometimes less than that. Where most of the money comes from is BMI because some of my Eleven Shadows music, but mostly my former band's music, gets played regularly on TV shows (and much more rarely, on small independent movies). We get played on a bunch of shows on VH1, MTV, and some TV shows like "Felicity" and some old WB TV shows.My recording project used to get played on stuff on Europe, mostly Germany and (for some reason) Portugal as well as a smattering of places in South America. This is because I used to have a recording contract with a German record label that was distributed by Rough Trade, and I got my music known and got it placed in a few commercials and independent movies. But this last bit has really really petered out because that was a looooong time ago. But every once in a rare while, I still make something from that.And please don't ask me how I get my money on TV shows. My drummer did all that. I know that he was relentless in submitting our music to music supervisors, establishing and keeping relationships with them, and continually pushing our music. If it were left to me, I would have probably sold maybe fourteen CDs at our shows and left it at that since I really seem incapable of promoting anything to make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 But to get back to your point about music vs. photography on FB, it takes someone a second or two to look at a photo, but requires more effort to get someone to listen to a song. You gotta get someone to click on something and then listen for a few seconds or minutes. What's interesting is that when I post one of my new photography blog entries on Facebook, I don't get that many "likes. If, on the other hand, I simply post a photo, I get quite a few "likes". Just the very act of having to click on something results on a large drop-off in the number of "likes". So if you add to that a song, it decreases even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beck Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 I've thought about putting some of my music on facebook. I listened to some of Ernest's stuff last year or so and it was beautiful, but I didn't know you had to pay anything. When I first joined facebook in late '09 there was a place in your profile info to put your personal website link outside of facebook. I don't see that anymore. That's what I was thinking of doing because I don't like to put friends on the spot asking them what they think of my music. They may love me, but my music might not be everyone's cup of tea. Facebook is purely social for me. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted October 23, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 Originally Posted by scarecrowbob Yah, I don't find it too surprising that they are charging people to advertise on their platform.There are a lot of things that I don't like about FB, and there are a lot of really troubling issues ranging from general privacy issues to how "engineered" the experience is for a system that seems to just be a bunch of comment streams.But Facebook is not all that different (and is a big step up) from services like AOL, Hotmail, CompuServe, Prodigy... the older systems that let people who aren't as tech savvy congregate and use the internet to share information. There are a ton of other serves that are similar which have come and gone (check out my livejournal!), and FB isn't any different.However, there is a lot of value in that congregation of people, and -of course- they are going to try and leverage that to create revenue.And here's one better: if you didn't find value in that community, then why would you want to use it for marketing to begin with? It might not be worth as much as they are charging to hit eyeballs (in fact, it might have never been a cost effective marketing tool), but it does have a community and targeting a message to that community has value for a lot of folks.Perhaps if you feel that you are "part of" the community because you create content for it and because people "want" to hear your marketing message you might feel like you're getting screwed, but to be blunt, if you're marketing... you're marketing.I don't care if you're selling pepsi, farmville, or your band, you're still interjecting markting info into Facebook streams and it isn't surprising that they not only control that access but charge for that access. I was using it as a means to get everyone together to be able to tell people what's up, show off new songs, build a community. I had almost a thousand likes and I have to assume those people WANT to know when I have something for them to check out, or just say..they themselves LIKED my page. Now, FB is telling me I have to pay to let people who ALREADY liked myself and thus told me they WANT to hear from me. So..It's bull{censored} and if you look into it, everyone's pages views and interaction are down roughly 75%!!! We didn't set up FB pages to have to pay FB to advertizing. They already have all our info and data which they leverage to the utmost of their money-making ability...Now they want to charge us? {censored} them. DIE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 Originally Posted by Beck I've thought about putting some of my music on facebook. I listened to some of Ernest's stuff last year or so and it was beautiful, but I didn't know you had to pay anything. When I first joined facebook in late '09 there was a place in your profile info to put your personal website link outside of facebook. I don't see that anymore. That's what I was thinking of doing because I don't like to put friends on the spot asking them what they think of my music. They may love me, but my music might not be everyone's cup of tea. Facebook is purely social for me. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 Originally Posted by UstadKhanAli But to get back to your point about music vs. photography on FB, it takes someone a second or two to look at a photo, but requires more effort to get someone to listen to a song. You gotta get someone to click on something and then listen for a few seconds or minutes. Yup, I think the time you`re asking someone to invest when listening to music is the biggest obstacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike1179 Posted October 23, 2012 Members Share Posted October 23, 2012 That is complete BS. Facebook started as a website that was meant to connect people with no strings attached. Now the owners are getting greedy and just want money. They think that just because everyone uses Facebook, they can just start charging people to keep their accounts. Soon they will be charging just to have an account. They are becoming just like all the other paid social networking sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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