Vocal Mix in Recent Rock Recordings (aka Not Your Typical "Is It My Ears?" Thread)

[Nijyo]

I've been meaning to run this past a larger crowd than my personal acquaintences for a while now, but never remember to do it when I'm online.

Has anyone else noticed that with regards to rock recordings in the last say, oh, 7-8 years, the vocals have been retreating further and further "back" into the mix?  So much so that sometimes on first listen you have to really make a mental effort to pick them out effectively?

Vocals are a pretty damn important part of a rock song, so I'm wondering why this seems to be a trend on newer recordings I hear.  Doesn't seem to have been an issue even for 'Remastered' older recordings that I listen to now.

Is it just me?

[Anderton]

No, it's not just you. Vocals were always the focus of a song, but with producers taking on a larger role than simply capturing performances, arrangements are changing and therefore, the mixes are changing too.

In the days when vocals ruled, you NEVER had 100 tracks, so the arrangement relied on an expressive vocalist to draw peoples' attention.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

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Nijyo wrote:

 

 

I've been meaning to run this past a larger crowd than my personal acquaintences for a while now, but never remember to do it when I'm online.

 

Has anyone else noticed that with regards to rock recordings in the last say, oh, 7-8 years, the vocals have been retreating further and further "back" into the mix?  So much so that sometimes on first listen you have to really make a mental effort to pick them out effectively?

 

Vocals are a pretty damn important part of a rock song, so I'm wondering why this seems to be a trend on newer recordings I hear.  Doesn't seem to have been an issue even for 'Remastered' older recordings that I listen to now.

 

Is it just me?

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I've been noticing this for much longer than 7-8 years.  It's been an ongoing thing in pop music for decades, retreating more and more, in my opinion.  If you listen to '50s songs onward, the vocals seem to recede more and more into the instrumentation.

I don't think this is always a bad thing.  It just depends on the song.

[Nijyo]

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Anderton wrote:

No, it's not just you. Vocals were always the focus of a song, but with producers taking on a larger role than simply capturing performances, arrangements are changing and therefore, the mixes are changing too.

In the days when vocals ruled, you NEVER had 100 tracks, so the arrangement relied on an expressive vocalist to draw peoples' attention.

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So, what you're saying is that I'm not getting old, just my tastes in music production?

 

right?

 

[Beck]

I've noticed the trends of vocals being buried in the mix comes and goes, but lately... the past decade maybe I more notice that modern vocal processing really hurts my ears.  Whether its autotune or whatever it gets on my nerves... makes my skin crawl.  I wonder if producers are burying the vocal in many cases out of sheer pain avoidance.  In some genres, like contemporary country music, the vocals are not buried, but IMO they should be.  You can hear all that can go wrong with vocal processing by listening to modern country music.  I don't care for the genre, but I will listen on the radio for a while sometimes while driving in an area where that's about all there is, and I wonder... how can people listen to this!

[blue2blue]

I haven't listened to mainstream rock since the early 70s, but in the fringie styles I've tended to listen to, I see flux in how much vocals are buried or not.  

[blue2blue]

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Beck wrote:

 

I've noticed the trends of vocals being buried in the mix comes and goes, but lately... the past decade maybe I more notice that modern vocal processing really hurts my ears.  Whether its autotune or whatever it gets on my nerves... makes my skin crawl.  I wonder if producers are burying the vocal in many cases out of sheer pain avoidance.  In some genres, like contemporary country music, the vocals are not buried, but IMO they should be.  You can hear all that can go wrong with vocal processing by listening to modern country music.  I don't care for the genre, but I will listen on the radio for a while sometimes while driving in an area where that's about all there is, and I wonder... how can people listen to this!

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Beck and I may not agree much on some stuff -- but we're on the same page here. 

For me, the tuning abuse (tuning for obvious tunig 'effect') or just outright unintentionally clumsy and incompetently obvious edits where it is, instead, supposed to sound natural, are at the top.

But right beneath are the heavy-handed use of 'vintage style' preamps and heavy compression. I was listening to an otherwise interesting Celtic folk album the other day but the lead vocal was SO STUPID COMPRESSED that it made it sound almost as fake as if it had been tuned. The edges of the envelope boundaries were so hard that every syllable had that broken off feel. If the engineer had been in the room with me, I would have slapped him (assuming he was male, healthy, and younger than me) and happily done my 30 days.

[maarkr]

seem like with digital, you need to push it back in the mix so it doesn't overtake the mix.  the prob is vocals by themselves sound so damn good when compressed, but in the mix it's a balancing act to keep them from making the song sound so 'in your face' that you can't stand listening to it for long.  Some song styles don't really need much adjustment, but seem like songs with a constant bass+drums+guitar+whatever else rhythm it's like "lets try this take at +2 or -2 db and see  how it sounds."

[UstadKhanAli]

 

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maarkr wrote:

 

seem like with digital, you need to push it back in the mix so it doesn't overtake the mix.  the prob is vocals by themselves sound so damn good when compressed, but in the mix it's a balancing act to keep them from making the song sound so 'in your face' that you can't stand listening to it for long.

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So I never considered this before....what do other people think about this?  Does digital require you to push a vocal back in the mix?