Epiphone EB-0 too quiet in the lower register

[GuitarHitman]

So, a few years ago, I bought an Epiphone EB-0 bass to fill the gap of no bass in my setup. I've not found it to be a terrible guitar to play but one thing that keeps bothering me about it is that everything played at the upper end of the neck comes through so much louder than the lower end of the neck. I know it's a short scale bass but does anyone else find the Epiphone this way or short scale basses in general to lack any volume in the lower register? A quick Google the other night found that no one is really grumbling too much about the Epiphone.

[DeepEnd]

Have you tried more than one amp or tweaking the EQ? That could be part of the issue. Bass amps don't really reproduce much below the second harmonic, in the same range as an acoustic guitar. When you play an open E that's a 41.2 Hz fundamental but you actually hear the second harmonic of 82.4 Hz. Play the E at the 12th fret and the fundamental is 82.4 Hz so you actually get some fundamental, which is stronger than the harmonic. You could also have a setup problem. As you go further up the neck, the strings get closer to the pickup. If the EB-0 had a bridge pickup instead of a neck pickup the issue would be less pronounced. Assuming the rest of the setup is okay, try lowering the pickup so the difference is less noticeable.

[WRGKMC]

I had an older 60's I played live in bands for several years. I wasn't a big fan of the bridge mini humbucker it had. The neck pickup produced some excellent tones through my C4B and B52 Cab I had. I think the one I had was a medium 34" scale.

 

I do have two other short scales, a Hofner and a Gretch. The Gretch is very similar to then EBO.

 

First thing I suggest you try is different strings and find a set that matches that bass. The best tones I get from My Gretsch are the Short scale Boomers or the Labella Deep Talkin. You want to be sure you use Short scale strings over mediums or longs cut down because the string cores give you the proper tension and tone. I've tried putting the wrong scale strings on them and the sound between strings and in different positions was horrid. The strings just weren't balanced properly for the instrument.

 

Next is pickup height. If the pickups are too high the strings get closer to the pickups as you move up the neck. Problem with the EB0 is the neck pickup only has the set screws to adjust. If it has a bridge pickup you can hold down the last fret and measure the distance with a Ruler and make it a bit closer then the neck/middle pickup.

 

I don't rule out intonation either. If your intonation is sharp or flat your open strings may not resonate like they should. String height and relief are important too.

 

From there its essentially your signal chain, amp and speakers. If you're playing through a guitar amp (which I suspect) you wont have the lows resonate like they should. The higher strings and frets sound louder because a guitar can isn't tuned to resonate at those lower frequencies, its tuned to project string midrange tones. The amps EQ isn't voiced for bass either like a bass amp is either.

 

If this is the case I'd take the bass down to the music store and try it through some bass amps which will produce those lows. If you still have the problem have the instrument set up with good strings until it does sound good through a bass amp.

 

If you use this bass for recording direct - get yourself a bass voiced direct box. There are many Sans amp clones which imitate a bass head preamp that can do wonderful things for the bass tone. I own at least a half dozen of various types for recording and some will also double as live amp pedals. The one I been using lately is the Vox Stomplab B1. It can be set to record direct at line level or set to drive and amp. Its got a full gambit of amp modeling which is really handy. I find my different basses sound better through different amp types. I have for example an SVT setting that gives me the Ampeg tone with an 8X10 cab, A Fender bass amp, Vox, Marshall, 2X15, 4X15, 4X10, up to 20 different heads and 20 different cabs to choose from. Then the pedal has EQ, Compression Drive so you can dial in the exact resonance of the bass.

 

Its also got a full array of effects from synth, reverb, chorus, fuzz etc. I'm not a big special effects fan for bass myself but I have it if I need it.

 

The key items for getting the volume normalized is Compression and EQ. Compression automates the volume so a soft note is louder and a loud note is softer. Its also got a noise gate so when you stop playing the sound is dead silent. EQ will help you get a balanced resonance from the strings. I can plug into just about any amp and dial up what I need, including a guitar amp. I simply scoop the mids away and get the most form the amps treble and bass.

 

 

[GuitarHitman]

Thanks both for the informative posts. It isn't the first bass I have ever played but is the first short scale bass I've played and didn't know if that easier reach was a compromise with regards to the low end.

 

I have only tried the one amp, which in all fairness, was my next suspect and maybe in addition to an issue with the guitar. It is a bass amp but it is only a small Orange Crush practice amp with an 8" speaker. I have noticed the same results by recording direct through a DI. I understand your point on the frequencies passed by the amp but it is noticeable on all strings and progressively gets louder up the neck. Just to make a point, at 131Hz for the C at the fifth fret on the G string, it is still seemingly a great deal quieter than it is at the 12th fret, so pick up height seems plausible. From what I can see though, it is fixed on the Epiphone.

 

As for strings and intonation; I have checked intonation and that is fine and the strings appear to be the short scale variant. This bass hasn't seen a great deal of use up until fairly recently despite the number of years I have owned it (maybe a couple of hours tops) but starting to get the urge to delve more into bass but it is still on the original strings that were supplied with it new. The fabric wrapped around where the string windings come to end finish within a couple inches of the nut on the E and G strings, which I guess verifies they are short scale strings.

 

Thanks both - I'll give my Epiphone a try through another amp and see if I can try another bass through my Orange.

 

[isaac42]

I'm unclear on one thing. When you record direct through a DI, are you going bass-DI-board, bypassing the amp entirely, or bass-amp-DI-board, bypassing just the speaker?

[DeepEnd]

. . . Just to make a point' date=' at 131Hz for the C at the fifth fret on the G string, it is still seemingly a great deal quieter than it is at the 12th fret, so pick up height seems plausible. From what I can see though, it is fixed on the Epiphone. . . .[/quote']

Oops. I'm not that familiar with that model and it didn't occur to me to check to see if the pickup height could be adjusted. If you're willing to invest some effort you might remove the pickup cover and see if there's a way to lower it, say maybe there's a shim or something under it. This guy says pickup height is easy to adjust but he doesn't say how (http://www.everythingsg.com/threads/eb-0-study.26414/ (go down to post #13)). Anything beyond that would require making the cavity deeper, which isn't a sensible investment with a $200 bass.

[WRGKMC]

From your description it sounds like the amp just isn't going to get you there.

 

EBO basses have tons of beefy lows, in fact probably too much for a small 8" speaker to reproduce properly so all you're left with is the upper frequencies which in fact aren't super on those basses. In summary, the range of the bass is lower then the amps ability to reproduce it.

 

The dead notes are Nulls that occur when the speaker and cab resonant frequency are wrong. I get the same thing playing bass through my little Marshall amp with an 8" speaker. I doubt that combo can produce much response below 150Hz with the bass fully cranked. It does OK for guitar because the low E strings first order harmonics are strong at 166hz.

 

An EMO had a strong fundamental at 40 and 80hz on the low E but not allot of higher order pickups like a Fender bass has with its bright tones.

 

Again, I'd say try plugging it into a better amp and then judge it. I played one live for many years and if anything the bass produces too much lows.

I also own two other short scales and there's definitely no problems getting lows out of them either.

 

Short scale basses have less string tension then longer scales do which darkens their sound. What does occur is the length of the sustain can be shorter then a long scale but the note durations are still plenty long enough to last for most Bass players to use stop note techniques the same as they would with a long scale.

 

I can say I've had more of these dead notes using heavier strings compared to lighter strings. What's medium thickness for a long scale isn't the same as what's medium for a short scale. I just finished a years searching for the best tone from my Hofner bass which uses a 32 inch scaled string when you add in the distance to the tail piece. I tried heavier rounds and flats, from a number of different manufacturers, even ones that work on my 30# Gretch well and it was no soap. I'd have both dead notes and strings that would ring too loud on other frets. I could wipe some of it away by EQing and compressing the signal allot.

 

The last set or half wounds was pretty close, but the upper strings tension was too stiff and the low strings too flabby.

The last set were short scale, light gauge 45~100 flat wounds made by labella and you wouldn't know it was the same bass.

I played it last night recording in fact and its definitely no illusion.

 

Apparently the cores are a tad thicker which give the strings the correct stiffness on a shorter scale Some other short scale strings have long scale gauge formulas for their wire and are simply shortened. This makes them too flabby to play right. Some brands are outright awful.

 

I'll see if I can dig up a before and after track so you can hear the difference. When I pick those new strings I get a nice snap tone from the fingers anywhere between the 12th fret and bridge. The other sets it was a bong or thud tone.

 

Again, I think you're issue is the amp, but it can still be a combination problem. You simply have to rule them out one by one.

 

I do have a Pro studio recording of the EBO I played back in the 80's and the low end punch was absolutely killer.

If I hadn't bought this Hofner I may have gotten another EBO specifically because the necks can be super comfortable to play.

[GuitarHitman]

Thanks all - perhaps I will look into investing into a better amp but I shall do some further investigation into the pickup height. Perhaps I've missed something but all that is apparent is four corner screws rather than the two height adjustment screws you would see on a guitar pickup.

[WRGKMC]

I'm unclear on one thing. When you record direct through a DI' date=' are you going bass-DI-board, bypassing the amp entirely, or bass-amp-DI-board, bypassing just the speaker?[/quote']

 

When you DI you don't need an amp at all. you're plugging straight into the recorder and using a unit that matches guitar level to line levels signals by preamping the signal up so its strong enough to feed a line level input or weak enough to feed a mic level input.

 

Remember the 5 man signal types are - Line level, Instrument level, Mic level, Headphone level, and Speaker level. You cant connect any of these together directly without matching the voltage and resistance ranges. Line levels too low for guitar so you have to preamp the guitar to feed that input. Mic level is too hot and will distort from a guitar so you have to reduce the guitar with an attenuator to feed a mic level input etc etc.

 

Besides matching level and impedance you can add EQ, Cab modeling, Amp modeling, and a full set of effects custom tailored to enhance the bass. You want to sound like a Fender amp with 2X15 cab, simply dial it up and save it as a preset. you want to sound like a Full SVT can with 8X10" compression and some extra high end because that bass has flat wound strings, you simply dial it up and save it.

 

You can switch the box to line level for recording direct without an amp, or you can switch to amp mode and use the unit to enhance you amp. Need a little chorus or reverb? no problem. You want synth bass tones, no problem. you want overdriven bass, again no problem. You can do it all feeding and amp or a recorder. You can even record in stereo with echo one one side and dry on the other or have the chorus cause a rotating Leslie sound.

 

This stuff has been around awhile now but you essentially had to use expensive rack units that substituted for a bass amplifiers preamp to do it.

Not any more. You can get one of these For $50~60 dollars on sale and get all those bass amp tones you've wanted.

 

 

 

Here's just some of the presets. Valve amps are Fender tones, Classis is your SVT, Gold and UK are Marshall, AC are Vox, UK are other British amps, etc. Then you can choose the cab types which have a dramatic effect. You can for example use the Classic with a 1X15", 4X10, 8X10, etc.

The old Marshalls had 4X15" cabs and had massive low end. My buddy owned the real thing and played a Hofner through it. This box does an amazing job getting those tones. Of course if you amp is seriously lacking some response the box can only go so far. Its like an EQ. If your speaker rolls off certain frequencies it doesn't matter how of those frequencies are pushing out of the head, the speaker simply wont reproduce them. In a recording situation where you have a highly linear and flat Frequency response for 20~20K, a box like this does amazing things.

 

This isn't the only one of course there are dozens of them out there now made specifically for bass. You can find them all the time used on EBat too. I picked up a Digitec version and a Korg Bassworks for $10 each and get some amazing tones out of them.

 

 

[isaac42]

When you DI you don't need an amp at all.

I know that My question was about what he, specifically, was doing.