The Political Party

[Graeca]

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Hoddy wrote:

Lifetime member!

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Sadly, you ARE the NRA...they market their BS to people with your lack of understanding of the world around you.

[madryan]

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WynnD wrote:
Is anyone hunting with an AR-15? Do you have anything left after the animal's guts explode?

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Despite what you've heard in the press, the .223 round doesn't do anything that any other bullet doesn't do. They're not magic.  They're not "extra" deadly.  In fact they're quite underpowered and they're not all that effective. 

A .308 (very common deer round) or any of the calibers based on the .308 case will do astronomically more damage.  

But why let facts intrude when you've got the warm, fuzzy mantle of propaganda.

[slodge]

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we need to do a few things if we want to actually impact our crime rates.

1) we need to address the Drug problem.  End the War on Drugs.  Get rid of the black market subculture which is driving the violence.

2) Institute a complete ban on all private sales without a NICS check which would necessitate a registry.  In order to accomplish this the Federal .gov is going to need to end all this silliness about Assault Weapons bans.  Our citizens need to be able to trust our government if they're going to register their shit at the Federal level.

3) Start some serious public works spending to un-fuck the inner cities.  Un-Couple school funding from property taxes.  Boost teacher pay so they're actually paid what they're worth, etc.  Get some economic and social mobility in the inner cities.

4) Get a single payer healthcare system STAT!  Let people go to the doctor and get seen for preventative medicine.  Include comprehensive mental health care.

That's a start.

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This is, of course, entirely reasonable.

Which is why our 'friends' on the right will fight it tooth and nail.

[thankyou]

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madryan wrote:

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WynnD wrote:
Is anyone hunting with an AR-15? Do you have anything left after the animal's guts explode?

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Despite what you've heard in the press, the .223 round doesn't do anything that any other bullet doesn't do. They're not magic.  They're not "extra" deadly.  In fact they're quite underpowered and they're not all that effective. 

A .308 (very common deer round) or any of the calibers based on the .308 case will do astronomically more damage.  

But why let facts intrude when you've got the warm, fuzzy mantle of propaganda.

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So, the .223 is not good for deer hunting, but it's awesome for human hunting.

[slodge]

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buckethead99 wrote:

Well Caulk the gun control people who want to ban all guns are extreme for sure,Never happen even though the right wing and NRA are claiming that is the agenda of the Gov.

Pure idiocy.

The NRA were just recently ok with registrations,Now not..So that is why they should be dismissed in the conversation.

Really the pro gun crowd are freaking out and stocking up for No reason.Good for business anyway.

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"Banning all guns" is not a part of any serious conversation.

But it's easier to work NRA members into frenzy over the fiction that gun control folks are seeking national confiscation than it is over their actual proposals, which tend to focus on registering and tracking.

[madryan]

The .223 round was designed for prairie dogs and rabbits. However, there are several newer loads which use the same case and are ballistically much like a 30-30 which run in a standard ar and are superb for deer

[Pine Apple Slim]

Madryn wrote<<<If Assualt Weapons accounted for a significant number of deaths in America I'd be on board. If you want to target a class of firearm target Jennings, Lorcin, and Hi-Point pistols. That's what most folks shoot each other with. They're cheap (around $200 new) plentiful, and not even high capacity, and they probably account for the bulk of dead folks in the inner city. Bangers don't go drop $550 on a brand new Glock. They pick up something cheap.>>>>

To bad we lost Ronnie. I don't think he would be an NRA type guy if he was still around.

Two feets they come a creepin'
Like a black cat do
And two bodies are layin' naked
Creeper think he got nothin' to lose
So he creeps into this house, yeah
And unlocks the door
And as a man's reaching for his trousers
Shoots him full of .38 holes

Mr. Saturday night special
Got a barrel that's blue and cold
Ain't good for nothin'
But put a man six feet in a hole

Big Jim's been drinkin' whiskey
And playin' poker on a losin' night
And pretty soon ol' Jim starts thinkin'
Somebody been cheatin' and lyin'
So Big Jim commence to fightin'
I wouldn't tell you no lie
Big Jim done pulled his pistol
Shot his friend right between the eyes

Mr. Saturday Night Special
Got a barrel that's blue and cold
Ain't good for nothin'
But put a man six feet in a hole

Oh, it's the Saturday Night Special
For twenty dollars you can buy yourself one too...

Well hand guns are made for killin'
They ain't no good for nothin' else
And if you like to drink your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
So why don't dump 'em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some ol' fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me

Mr. Saturday Night Special
Got a barrel that's blue and cold
Ain't good for nothin'
But put a man six feet in a hole

Ooooh it's a Saturday night special
And I'd like to tell you what you can do with it too...

[mauser]

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thankyou wrote:

So, what kind of game would you hunt with that size of round?  Is it big enough for black bear.  I was told my .357 wasn't big enough for the bear that had been foraging aound our campsite near Cripple Creek.  We should know by now that .223 is good enough for hunting humans.

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.223 & .243 are both enough for deer, and .243 could be used for black bear....but if I were hunting black bear I'd want to use something a bit larger.

[NOS68]

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madryan wrote:

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WynnD wrote:
Is anyone hunting with an AR-15? Do you have anything left after the animal's guts explode?

---

Despite what you've heard in the press, the .223 round doesn't do anything that any other bullet doesn't do. They're not magic.  They're not "extra" deadly.  In fact they're quite underpowered and they're not all that effective. 

A .308 (very common deer round) or any of the calibers based on the .308 case will do astronomically more damage.  

But why let facts intrude when you've got the warm, fuzzy mantle of propaganda.

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Maybe pics will help.

[NOS68]

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mauser wrote:

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thankyou wrote:

So, what kind of game would you hunt with that size of round?  Is it big enough for black bear.  I was told my .357 wasn't big enough for the bear that had been foraging aound our campsite near Cripple Creek.  We should know by now that .223 is good enough for hunting humans.

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.223 & .243 are both enough for deer, and .243 could be used for black bear....but if I were hunting black bear I'd want to use something a bit larger.

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.223 is marginal for deer, with good shot placement it works well, but there is no room for error which is why it is illegal for deer or anything larger in many states. And a .243 for bear is nuts, it may be ok on a 200 lber but what happens when a bruiser going 400 lbs or more shows up.

[mauser]

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NOS68 wrote:

.223 is marginal for deer, with good shot placement it works well, but there is no room for error which is why it is illegal for deer or anything larger in many states. And a .243 for bear is nuts, it may be ok on a 200 lber but what happens when a bruiser going 400 lbs or more shows up.

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Good shot placement is generally the name of the game regardless, as is the type of ammo and bullet used. 

What happens is good shot placement and proper bullet selection = one dead bear.

[fretmess]

If you want your bullet  to get there in a hurry then you need P. O. Ackley's earsplittinloudenboomer.  Ackley wanted to hit a muzzle velocity of 5,000 ft/sec but was only able to obtain 4,600 ft/sec.

[NOS68]

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mauser wrote:

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Good shot placement is generally the name of the game regardless, as is the type of ammo and bullet used.

What happens is good shot placement and proper bullet selection = one dead bear.

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I agree completlety but I like to go with enough that if the shot is off by a little and catches a shoulder it has the power to still get the job done quickly. My hunting rifles are a .270 Weatherby Mag, .325 WSM, and for the thick shit a .375 Win lever action.

[Just Me]

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NOS68 wrote:

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mauser wrote:

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thankyou wrote:

So, what kind of game would you hunt with that size of round?  Is it big enough for black bear.  I was told my .357 wasn't big enough for the bear that had been foraging aound our campsite near Cripple Creek.  We should know by now that .223 is good enough for hunting humans.

---

.223 & .243 are both enough for deer, and .243 could be used for black bear....but if I were hunting black bear I'd want to use something a bit larger.

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.223 is marginal for deer, with good shot placement it works well, but there is no room for error which is why it is illegal for deer or anything larger in many states. And a .243 for bear is nuts, it may be ok on a 200 lber but what happens when a bruiser going 400 lbs or more shows up.

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i dont even think there is a rifle season in my state - bow hunting and shotgun only.

[thankyou]

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mauser wrote:

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thankyou wrote:

So, what kind of game would you hunt with that size of round?  Is it big enough for black bear.  I was told my .357 wasn't big enough for the bear that had been foraging aound our campsite near Cripple Creek.  We should know by now that .223 is good enough for hunting humans.

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.223 & .243 are both enough for deer, and .243 could be used for black bear....but if I were hunting black bear I'd want to use something a bit larger.

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Not hunting the bears, just want to keep them out of my camper.  The one in that area (they are territorial) tore the door off of the neighbor's old trailer that he said probably smelled of bacon from the days he actually used it.  The bear also tore siding off another neighbor's shed.  It hasn't been as much of a problem since that year.  There was a freak weather pattern the previous winter that had a very warm period in February followed by a hard freeze in April.  The warmth stimulated a species of berry bush to bud out early, then the freeze killed the buds, which meant that the bears did not have one of their regular staples the following summer. 

[mauser]

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NOS68 wrote:

I agree completlety but I like to go with enough that if the shot is off by a little and catches a shoulder it has the power to still get the job done quickly. My hunting rifles are a .270 Weatherby Mag, .325 WSM, and for the thick shit a .375 Win lever action.

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As I said...I'd prefer something a bit larger than .243 for bear, but if you do your part it'll work fine.

I'd be willing to bet that more deer and bear have been taken with a .30-30 than anything else.

[NOS68]

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mauser wrote:

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NOS68 wrote:

I agree completlety but I like to go with enough that if the shot is off by a little and catches a shoulder it has the power to still get the job done quickly. My hunting rifles are a .270 Weatherby Mag, .325 WSM, and for the thick shit a .375 Win lever action.

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As I said...I'd prefer something a bit larger than .243 for bear, but if you do your part it'll work fine.

I'd be willing to bet that more deer and bear have been taken with a .30-30 than anything else.

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And you'd probably win, it's between a 30-30 and 30-06 I'd guess.

[NOS68]

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thankyou wrote:

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mauser wrote:

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thankyou wrote:

So, what kind of game would you hunt with that size of round?  Is it big enough for black bear.  I was told my .357 wasn't big enough for the bear that had been foraging aound our campsite near Cripple Creek.  We should know by now that .223 is good enough for hunting humans.

---

.223 & .243 are both enough for deer, and .243 could be used for black bear....but if I were hunting black bear I'd want to use something a bit larger.

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Not hunting the bears, just want to keep them out of my camper.  The one in that area (they are territorial) tore the door off of the neighbor's old trailer that he said probably smelled of bacon from the days he actually used it.  The bear also tore siding off another neighbor's shed.  It hasn't been as much of a problem since that year.  There was a freak weather pattern the previous winter that had a very warm period in February followed by a hard freeze in April.  The warmth stimulated a species of berry bush to bud out early, then the freeze killed the buds, which meant that the bears did not have one of their regular staples the following summer. 

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Then I'd recomend a 12 guage with slugs. Or one of the big bore lever's.

[NOS68]

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Just Me wrote:

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NOS68 wrote:

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mauser wrote:

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thankyou wrote:

So, what kind of game would you hunt with that size of round?  Is it big enough for black bear.  I was told my .357 wasn't big enough for the bear that had been foraging aound our campsite near Cripple Creek.  We should know by now that .223 is good enough for hunting humans.

---

.223 & .243 are both enough for deer, and .243 could be used for black bear....but if I were hunting black bear I'd want to use something a bit larger.

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.223 is marginal for deer, with good shot placement it works well, but there is no room for error which is why it is illegal for deer or anything larger in many states. And a .243 for bear is nuts, it may be ok on a 200 lber but what happens when a bruiser going 400 lbs or more shows up.

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i dont even think there is a rifle season in my state - bow hunting and shotgun only.

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There are a few states that are shotgun only, N.J.,Ohio,Illinois, Parts of N.Y. I know are shotgun only probably a few more. With todays rifled slug guns you're not a to much of a disadvantage except for a shit load more recoil.