Invisible Hand wrote:That isn't context. When they say "personal" who are they talking about? Trained LE agents or the general population? It makes all the difference in the world.
You are aware that there are many in the general population that are better trained than "Trained LE agents?" You know -- ex military.
Here in Utah, one ex Ranger killed one and seriously injured five other police that were attempting to serve a warrant. The LE were wearing their bullet proof vests. Funny too, David Mathew Stewart used a 9mm sidearm. The trained LE were serving a knock and announce warrant for a grow operation of 14 plants and did not knock and announce.
Trained LE is a cop out.
Invisible Hand wrote:
normh wrote:
Invisible Hand wrote:That isn't context. When they say "personal" who are they talking about? Trained LE agents or the general population? It makes all the difference in the world.
You are aware that there are many in the general population that are better trained than "Trained LE agents?" You know -- ex military.
Here in Utah, one ex Ranger killed one and seriously injured five other police that were attempting to serve a warrant. The LE were wearing their bullet proof vests. Funny too, David Mathew Stewart used a 9mm sidearm. The trained LE were serving a knock and announce warrant for a grow operation of 14 plants and did not knock and announce.
Trained LE is a cop out.
That's not what I'm debating. Of course there are highly trained citizens and total doofus LE personnel. The point the OP is trying to make is that he thinks DHS is saying that an AR in the home would make people safer. I'm trying to learn what DHS actually said. He refuses to provide context to the quote despite multiple requests. Could it be that proper context would render his point invalid? I guess we'll never know.
Here, allow me to reprovide the link that the OP provided when requested that you may have over looked; it is a downloadable PDF: LINK. Judge it as you will.
Now in the case of David Mathews Stewart. That was a police SWAT drug team and Stewart took half of them out with a 9mm. That same drug team the year before killed an unarmed man in a no knock warrant. The cop that died is the one that killed that unarmed person in that previous raid. If you were to say that the drug SWAT team were twelve doofuses, I would have to agree, but they were highly trained doofuses
PFB wrote:If the trained LE truly didn't knock and announce, then that is the fault of poor training. There's a large number of LE that are ex-military, as well.
Per the neighbors, the police did not knock and announce.
From personal experience when the police knocked, announced and then entered a drug sales house arround the corner: you can certainly hear it, especially when they use a bullhorn in a car. It woke me out of a deep sleep, and I had to peel myself off the ceiling. By way of contrast, I did not hear the cops break the windows of that house when they forced entry milliseconds after the announce.
Now Stewart was in Ogden, 40 miles north, and the above incident was SLC. But, the real kicker is that the Ogden team was one of two drug raid training teams in Utah. The five shot, and the one dead were the trainers.
Stewart was ex special forces - Airborne Ranger.
So if they are arming themselves, we can expect yet more self-destroying contenders for The Darwin Awards to start showing up regularly in the news.
Guns are nature's way of saying you're a true loser.
realtrance wrote:
The DHS is the dumping ground where federal bureaucrats who have achieved special levels of incompetence just short of conditions allowing their firing are sent.
So if they are arming themselves, we can expect yet more self-destroying contenders for The Darwin Awards to start showing up regularly in the news.
Guns are nature's way of saying you're a true loser.
Ashcroft.
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