Re: If you have not seen this you need to.

Spike Li · ‎02-28-2009

NOS68 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
What rights are you talking about exactly? The right of anyone to own any kind of weapon they please? The right to live in a society where anyone whos having a bad day can just grab their mothers AR15 and kill a bunch of children? How many crimes are commited with tommy guns these days?
And how many are commited with AR15's, hint it's a miniscule amount.

Okay, sure, statistically it may be "miniscule", but does that make it "acceptable"? Everytime someone goes and shoots up a school with an AR15 or whatever, do you just write it off as a statistical anomaly or do you think something should be done about it? Do gun advocates really believe that all these deaths are just an unfortunate side effect of thier "right" to own these toys to protect them from the boogie man?

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yumpy · ‎01-17-2013

Davo17 · ‎03-24-2009

guido61 wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
making non full auto weapons illegal will not stop the problem where it exists...which is with the drug trade and psych pts.

Prior to the the 1934 ban, the tommy gun was the gun of choice for gangsters. After the ban, they stopped using it and there have only been two deaths caused by that gun since.
The "bad guys will use the guns anyway" theory is bogus. Bad guys are usually three things: Cheap, Lazy and Reckless. That's one reason they decide to become bad guys in the first place. They'll use whatever gun is the easiest and cheapest to get ahold of. And don't have much concern for how much carnage it is capable of causing. They'll just use it and whatever-happens is whatever-happens.
Limit their easy access to hyper-dangerous guns and they'll use something else. The 1934 full-auto weapon ban PROVED that.

funny i just got off a jury trial where we sent 3 thugs to life in prison. all guns were iobtained from mexico....all were not fa. all sure paralyzed the **bleep** outta people anyway.

define hyper-dangerous...you know, as a man of science.

DSM-IV 301.95 Progressive Personality Disorder
A. A pervasive pattern of progressive political and inter-personal thought and action, rooted in discredited leftist (neo-Marxist) beliefs, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following (individual must be at least 18 years of age to qualify for the diagnosis of Progressive Personality Disorder, as many of the criteria are age-appropriate for adolescents). This disorder often coexists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Utopian thinking, e.g. a delusional belief that there exist simple, linear, side effect-free solutions to all social problems.
Lack of historical knowledge and perspective, and repression of personal memories dissonant with this belief system. e.g., the national mood post 9-11, including that of PPD patients, is suppressed in order to avoid conflict with subsequent reversal of beliefs as the PPD delusions were reinstated - hence the downplaying of terrorism as a threat and the obsessive concern for the "rghts" of temporarily feared and hated terrorists. (Note to clinician: please differentiate between mere historical ignorance, e.g., a doctorate in history from an elite university, vs. neurotic or psychotic delusions necessary to sustain these beliefs. )
Anthroplastic delusion, e.g. The delusion that behavioral conditioning performed by the government or some other collective will cure all behavioral and social problems, rooted in denial of fixed human nature. Implicit in this delusion is the idea that human beings are infinitely malleable and subject to behavioral manipulation leading to perfect control and predictability. Free will, personal conscience, and objective morality are denied, devalued or denigrated.
Anti-theistic rebellion: An emotional antagonism to the Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in an abnormal persistence of adolescent rebellion (may also be related to the need to avoid counter-arguments that would question utopian, anthroplastic ideation). This behavior ranges from a mere antagonism to Christianity to a hatred of all forms of religion. The rejection of religion leads to a deep longing for a substitute religion, or in extreme cases, a messiah. The more Western a religion is, the more it is despised. Thus, these patients may openly accept more primitive pantheistic, neo-pagan, or animist belief systems, such as Wicca or fraudulent "new age" philosophies, e.g., Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc.
Animist delusion: The belief that mankind is evil and nature is benign. The incidence of this symptom is inversely related to practical knowledge and experience of nature. Collective self-hatred is a feature in this area, paradoxically existing side by side with egomaniacal omniscience, e.g., ability to accurately predict climate 100 years into the future. Typical thinking includes the self-hating belief that mankind is a cancer on earth and that the planet (subjectively felt as a "feeling being") will "retaliate." The animist delusion includes considerable cognitive dissonance, since the typical Progressive Personality is a believer in natural selection, which has resulted in untold suffering and cruelty, mitigated only by mankind's presence.
a. For example, the belief that an eagle egg or four-toed salamander is entitled to more legal protection than a human baby.
Environmental spasm: Chaotic, unreasonable, or incoherent episodes of manic activity on behalf of the environment or "mother nature." The delusional nature of this activity is evidenced by misanthropic attacks on works of man, and also by a manic focus on visible or totemic biological objects of little rational value. The patient is typically obsessed only with cute or cuddly creatures, often a displacement of the nurturing urge (often unfulfilled due to abortion).
Control obsession: A tendency to strive for excessive control over others through state intrusion. A contemptuous projection of unconscious envy which is subjectively experienced as "compassion." Through the magic of this unconscious mechanism, PPD patients typically want the state to appropriate your wealth while imagining themselves to be generous and "compassionate." Use of state coercion often substitutes for true acts of generosity; a low rate of charitable giving is often present.
Racist/feminist hypocrisy: Passionate advocacy of government-enforced discrimination based on sex or race, with aggressively proclaimed opposition to policies which are "racist" or "sexist." Obsessive conformity of thought within a racially diverse population. For example, a PPD patient might favor seating a racist on the Supreme Court, so long as the person is of the "correct" race. Often the cognitive dissonance normally associated with such beliefs is rationalized by the delusion that the "oppressed" cannot themselves be racist.
Overemotional perception: Excessive concern with how a social action "looks" or "feels," to the exclusion of actual resulting benefits or harm; in particular, any effects beyond the immediate. Resistance to, and denial of, objective evidence proving the adverse consequences of progressive policy. Superficial cognition about most matters of significant import, as the progressive personality relies on the "feel" of issues rather than truly understanding them. Obsession with "fairness" or "social justice" as opposed to what actually works.
Sexual dysfunction: Significant anxiety about sexual matters, manifested as:
a. Obsession with sexual and gender roles.
b. Passionate celebration of nontraditional sex roles and preferences.
c. The compulsion to define individuals by their "sexual preference" and to design social policy as if all individuals share the obsession.
d. An inordinate interest in preserving inappropriate, lewd, perverse, or antisocial forms of sexual expression.
e. Fascination with immature or deviant expressions of sexuality; reduction of human sexuality to animal sexuality.
f. The projected belief that the contradictory beliefs are a result of fear (e.g. "homophobia".
e. Obsession with contraception and abortion ("reproductive freedom").
Replacement of patriotism with matriotism: Unwillingness to defend country when attacked or threatened, allied with inability to name or recognize evil and General devaluation of the masculine virtues.
Cultural and moral relativism: The fervent belief that all cultures are beautiful except one's own, and that it is immoral to judge another's morality unless they are conservative.

Davo17 · ‎03-24-2009

guido61 wrote:
gspointer wrote:
^ guido

Holy **bleep** that is a simplistic answer. Does your history of the us fit on one or 2 pages?
1934 Bonnie&Clyde died, Dillinger died, Baby face Nelson died, Machine gun Kelly incarcerated in 1933, as well as prohibition ending. Also the 2 killings tracked since are "registered" items. Try to find info on the illegal, unregistered ones.
Actually, I just borrowed that figure from Telecrusier who posted it earlier.   And since I'm dealing with gun-fans who most often argue with simplistic bumper-sticker soundbites like "if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns", replying in kind seemed pretty appropriate.   It's not like Davo17 is a fountain of sourced, researched debate.
But the facts are the facts: those guns were outlawed and it didn't result in "only the outlaws" using them or crime rates increasing. In fact, the outlaws, rather than deal with the difficultly in securing those guns, found other weapons to use.    It's really absurd to assume that anything more than a small handful of really determined bad guys with specific needs are going to make sure they have these sorts of weapons and REALLY absurd to think that very many of the guys who are suddenly overcome with the desire to go shoot up the local shopping mall are going to do so.
These are largely impulse crimes. They grab what is handy and fashion their crime around the available weaponry.   Limit the severity of the weapons they have easy access to and you limit the severity of the crimes they commit.
It's not only common sense, but history has proven it to be correct.

lots of heavy menses when what you should have said is you dont know how to make a point. go play your guitar, son.

DSM-IV 301.95 Progressive Personality Disorder
A. A pervasive pattern of progressive political and inter-personal thought and action, rooted in discredited leftist (neo-Marxist) beliefs, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following (individual must be at least 18 years of age to qualify for the diagnosis of Progressive Personality Disorder, as many of the criteria are age-appropriate for adolescents). This disorder often coexists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Utopian thinking, e.g. a delusional belief that there exist simple, linear, side effect-free solutions to all social problems.
Lack of historical knowledge and perspective, and repression of personal memories dissonant with this belief system. e.g., the national mood post 9-11, including that of PPD patients, is suppressed in order to avoid conflict with subsequent reversal of beliefs as the PPD delusions were reinstated - hence the downplaying of terrorism as a threat and the obsessive concern for the "rghts" of temporarily feared and hated terrorists. (Note to clinician: please differentiate between mere historical ignorance, e.g., a doctorate in history from an elite university, vs. neurotic or psychotic delusions necessary to sustain these beliefs. )
Anthroplastic delusion, e.g. The delusion that behavioral conditioning performed by the government or some other collective will cure all behavioral and social problems, rooted in denial of fixed human nature. Implicit in this delusion is the idea that human beings are infinitely malleable and subject to behavioral manipulation leading to perfect control and predictability. Free will, personal conscience, and objective morality are denied, devalued or denigrated.
Anti-theistic rebellion: An emotional antagonism to the Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in an abnormal persistence of adolescent rebellion (may also be related to the need to avoid counter-arguments that would question utopian, anthroplastic ideation). This behavior ranges from a mere antagonism to Christianity to a hatred of all forms of religion. The rejection of religion leads to a deep longing for a substitute religion, or in extreme cases, a messiah. The more Western a religion is, the more it is despised. Thus, these patients may openly accept more primitive pantheistic, neo-pagan, or animist belief systems, such as Wicca or fraudulent "new age" philosophies, e.g., Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc.
Animist delusion: The belief that mankind is evil and nature is benign. The incidence of this symptom is inversely related to practical knowledge and experience of nature. Collective self-hatred is a feature in this area, paradoxically existing side by side with egomaniacal omniscience, e.g., ability to accurately predict climate 100 years into the future. Typical thinking includes the self-hating belief that mankind is a cancer on earth and that the planet (subjectively felt as a "feeling being") will "retaliate." The animist delusion includes considerable cognitive dissonance, since the typical Progressive Personality is a believer in natural selection, which has resulted in untold suffering and cruelty, mitigated only by mankind's presence.
a. For example, the belief that an eagle egg or four-toed salamander is entitled to more legal protection than a human baby.
Environmental spasm: Chaotic, unreasonable, or incoherent episodes of manic activity on behalf of the environment or "mother nature." The delusional nature of this activity is evidenced by misanthropic attacks on works of man, and also by a manic focus on visible or totemic biological objects of little rational value. The patient is typically obsessed only with cute or cuddly creatures, often a displacement of the nurturing urge (often unfulfilled due to abortion).
Control obsession: A tendency to strive for excessive control over others through state intrusion. A contemptuous projection of unconscious envy which is subjectively experienced as "compassion." Through the magic of this unconscious mechanism, PPD patients typically want the state to appropriate your wealth while imagining themselves to be generous and "compassionate." Use of state coercion often substitutes for true acts of generosity; a low rate of charitable giving is often present.
Racist/feminist hypocrisy: Passionate advocacy of government-enforced discrimination based on sex or race, with aggressively proclaimed opposition to policies which are "racist" or "sexist." Obsessive conformity of thought within a racially diverse population. For example, a PPD patient might favor seating a racist on the Supreme Court, so long as the person is of the "correct" race. Often the cognitive dissonance normally associated with such beliefs is rationalized by the delusion that the "oppressed" cannot themselves be racist.
Overemotional perception: Excessive concern with how a social action "looks" or "feels," to the exclusion of actual resulting benefits or harm; in particular, any effects beyond the immediate. Resistance to, and denial of, objective evidence proving the adverse consequences of progressive policy. Superficial cognition about most matters of significant import, as the progressive personality relies on the "feel" of issues rather than truly understanding them. Obsession with "fairness" or "social justice" as opposed to what actually works.
Sexual dysfunction: Significant anxiety about sexual matters, manifested as:
a. Obsession with sexual and gender roles.
b. Passionate celebration of nontraditional sex roles and preferences.
c. The compulsion to define individuals by their "sexual preference" and to design social policy as if all individuals share the obsession.
d. An inordinate interest in preserving inappropriate, lewd, perverse, or antisocial forms of sexual expression.
e. Fascination with immature or deviant expressions of sexuality; reduction of human sexuality to animal sexuality.
f. The projected belief that the contradictory beliefs are a result of fear (e.g. "homophobia".
e. Obsession with contraception and abortion ("reproductive freedom").
Replacement of patriotism with matriotism: Unwillingness to defend country when attacked or threatened, allied with inability to name or recognize evil and General devaluation of the masculine virtues.
Cultural and moral relativism: The fervent belief that all cultures are beautiful except one's own, and that it is immoral to judge another's morality unless they are conservative.

Davo17 · ‎03-24-2009

Spike Li wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
So gun control is a bad thing because mass shootings are simple part of everyday life?
Got it.
oh so close! you almost had it.
gun control is bad because it restricts others while not stoppong the problem.
most of these shooters are mentally unstable but have nothing preventing them from making these purchases quietly before hand... or they are already violent criminals who dont follow laws by definition.
so laws the dont target the problem are ineffective band aids that make some of us feel better without actually solving anything.
bad laws are not the solution.
ergo, sit on a tack.

Sit on a tack? Id rather not...
Havent a lot of these mass shootings occurred with legally obtained firearms and ammunition?
Dont you think that adding more guns so people can "protect themselves" is actually the bandaid solution? Im pretty sure that the US doesnt have a monopoly on mentally unstable people (although I could be wrong) but it does seem to have a monopoly on gun crime and mass shootings... why is that? Is it because not enough "good guys" have guns or is it something else?
So let me get this right: according to the lady in the video- its not the gunmans fault for going on a rampage, its not societies obsession with and proliferation of guns, its not that guns are really common and super easy to get a hold of, laws that dont allow everyone to carry a gun on them all the time are to blame for the death of her parents???

Oh and as someone else mentioned- if the cops watched the gunman kill her mother, why didnt they do anything? Surely they were armed??

the shootings with legally purchased firearms are mostly nuts, with no record before the attack. no backround check will catch a first timer. and again, the rest are thugs who wont use legal channels anyway...years of research shows that.

no band aid...the guns are already out there. too many to ever make confiscation practical.

besides if you account for psych pts and criminals...the us has the same murder rate as holland. so take a deep breath and look at where the problem is instead of mindlessly spouting off ideas that end in the restrifctions of honest americans rights.

i explained why the cops on scene didnt do anything...a few posts up. like i said, im a paramedic and have seen this a hundred times...cops dont just rush in to anything when guns are involved. they set up a perimeter and waqit for backup before they do anything. they were likely survailing when hey saw that murder.

its simple math...the way to counter a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. t
Being a paramedic- dont you believe that prevention is better than a cure?
yes...to the extent that prevention does not infringe others rights.
thats besides the pt. its a flawed premise to assume this will stop the types of violence its acccused of causing without evidence to back that up. scientific studies. policy papers...the anti,s havent mentioned them because they dont support their argument.

What rights are you talking about exactly? The right of anyone to own any kind of weapon they please? The right to live in a society where anyone whos having a bad day can just grab their mothers AR15 and kill a bunch of children? How many crimes are commited with tommy guns these days?

dude just go back and read your post. its an appeal to emotion. feeling REALLY hard doesnt make you correct.

DSM-IV 301.95 Progressive Personality Disorder
A. A pervasive pattern of progressive political and inter-personal thought and action, rooted in discredited leftist (neo-Marxist) beliefs, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following (individual must be at least 18 years of age to qualify for the diagnosis of Progressive Personality Disorder, as many of the criteria are age-appropriate for adolescents). This disorder often coexists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Utopian thinking, e.g. a delusional belief that there exist simple, linear, side effect-free solutions to all social problems.
Lack of historical knowledge and perspective, and repression of personal memories dissonant with this belief system. e.g., the national mood post 9-11, including that of PPD patients, is suppressed in order to avoid conflict with subsequent reversal of beliefs as the PPD delusions were reinstated - hence the downplaying of terrorism as a threat and the obsessive concern for the "rghts" of temporarily feared and hated terrorists. (Note to clinician: please differentiate between mere historical ignorance, e.g., a doctorate in history from an elite university, vs. neurotic or psychotic delusions necessary to sustain these beliefs. )
Anthroplastic delusion, e.g. The delusion that behavioral conditioning performed by the government or some other collective will cure all behavioral and social problems, rooted in denial of fixed human nature. Implicit in this delusion is the idea that human beings are infinitely malleable and subject to behavioral manipulation leading to perfect control and predictability. Free will, personal conscience, and objective morality are denied, devalued or denigrated.
Anti-theistic rebellion: An emotional antagonism to the Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in an abnormal persistence of adolescent rebellion (may also be related to the need to avoid counter-arguments that would question utopian, anthroplastic ideation). This behavior ranges from a mere antagonism to Christianity to a hatred of all forms of religion. The rejection of religion leads to a deep longing for a substitute religion, or in extreme cases, a messiah. The more Western a religion is, the more it is despised. Thus, these patients may openly accept more primitive pantheistic, neo-pagan, or animist belief systems, such as Wicca or fraudulent "new age" philosophies, e.g., Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc.
Animist delusion: The belief that mankind is evil and nature is benign. The incidence of this symptom is inversely related to practical knowledge and experience of nature. Collective self-hatred is a feature in this area, paradoxically existing side by side with egomaniacal omniscience, e.g., ability to accurately predict climate 100 years into the future. Typical thinking includes the self-hating belief that mankind is a cancer on earth and that the planet (subjectively felt as a "feeling being") will "retaliate." The animist delusion includes considerable cognitive dissonance, since the typical Progressive Personality is a believer in natural selection, which has resulted in untold suffering and cruelty, mitigated only by mankind's presence.
a. For example, the belief that an eagle egg or four-toed salamander is entitled to more legal protection than a human baby.
Environmental spasm: Chaotic, unreasonable, or incoherent episodes of manic activity on behalf of the environment or "mother nature." The delusional nature of this activity is evidenced by misanthropic attacks on works of man, and also by a manic focus on visible or totemic biological objects of little rational value. The patient is typically obsessed only with cute or cuddly creatures, often a displacement of the nurturing urge (often unfulfilled due to abortion).
Control obsession: A tendency to strive for excessive control over others through state intrusion. A contemptuous projection of unconscious envy which is subjectively experienced as "compassion." Through the magic of this unconscious mechanism, PPD patients typically want the state to appropriate your wealth while imagining themselves to be generous and "compassionate." Use of state coercion often substitutes for true acts of generosity; a low rate of charitable giving is often present.
Racist/feminist hypocrisy: Passionate advocacy of government-enforced discrimination based on sex or race, with aggressively proclaimed opposition to policies which are "racist" or "sexist." Obsessive conformity of thought within a racially diverse population. For example, a PPD patient might favor seating a racist on the Supreme Court, so long as the person is of the "correct" race. Often the cognitive dissonance normally associated with such beliefs is rationalized by the delusion that the "oppressed" cannot themselves be racist.
Overemotional perception: Excessive concern with how a social action "looks" or "feels," to the exclusion of actual resulting benefits or harm; in particular, any effects beyond the immediate. Resistance to, and denial of, objective evidence proving the adverse consequences of progressive policy. Superficial cognition about most matters of significant import, as the progressive personality relies on the "feel" of issues rather than truly understanding them. Obsession with "fairness" or "social justice" as opposed to what actually works.
Sexual dysfunction: Significant anxiety about sexual matters, manifested as:
a. Obsession with sexual and gender roles.
b. Passionate celebration of nontraditional sex roles and preferences.
c. The compulsion to define individuals by their "sexual preference" and to design social policy as if all individuals share the obsession.
d. An inordinate interest in preserving inappropriate, lewd, perverse, or antisocial forms of sexual expression.
e. Fascination with immature or deviant expressions of sexuality; reduction of human sexuality to animal sexuality.
f. The projected belief that the contradictory beliefs are a result of fear (e.g. "homophobia".
e. Obsession with contraception and abortion ("reproductive freedom").
Replacement of patriotism with matriotism: Unwillingness to defend country when attacked or threatened, allied with inability to name or recognize evil and General devaluation of the masculine virtues.
Cultural and moral relativism: The fervent belief that all cultures are beautiful except one's own, and that it is immoral to judge another's morality unless they are conservative.

NOS68 · ‎06-04-2006

Spike Li wrote:
NOS68 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
What rights are you talking about exactly? The right of anyone to own any kind of weapon they please? The right to live in a society where anyone whos having a bad day can just grab their mothers AR15 and kill a bunch of children? How many crimes are committed with tommy guns these days?
And how many are committed with AR15's, hint it's a miniscule amount.

Okay, sure, statistically it may be "miniscule", but does that make it "acceptable"? Everytime someone goes and shoots up a school with an AR15 or whatever, do you just write it off as a statistical anomaly or do you think something should be done about it? Do gun advocates really believe that all these deaths are just an unfortunate side effect of their "right" to own these toys to protect them from the boogie man?

I will not back a program that does nothing but lets a bunch of scared little gun grabbers feel better. And all we have to do is go back and look at the last "AWB" ban to see it changes nothing.

Would you support bringing back prohibition to save all those killed in DUI deaths? I mean DUI's account for far more deaths than all long guns combined. Not to mention the domestic violence it causes. Until then I don't believe for a second you give a **bleep** about the kids killed in Sandy Hook, your simply scared of them evil black rifles.

BTW way I don't own any of my AR's to protect my from anybody. I have other firearms set up for home defense. My AR's are for hunting and recreational shooting.

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Spike Li · ‎02-28-2009

Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
So gun control is a bad thing because mass shootings are simple part of everyday life?
Got it.
oh so close! you almost had it.
gun control is bad because it restricts others while not stoppong the problem.
most of these shooters are mentally unstable but have nothing preventing them from making these purchases quietly before hand... or they are already violent criminals who dont follow laws by definition.
so laws the dont target the problem are ineffective band aids that make some of us feel better without actually solving anything.
bad laws are not the solution.
ergo, sit on a tack.

Sit on a tack? Id rather not...
Havent a lot of these mass shootings occurred with legally obtained firearms and ammunition?
Dont you think that adding more guns so people can "protect themselves" is actually the bandaid solution? Im pretty sure that the US doesnt have a monopoly on mentally unstable people (although I could be wrong) but it does seem to have a monopoly on gun crime and mass shootings... why is that? Is it because not enough "good guys" have guns or is it something else?
So let me get this right: according to the lady in the video- its not the gunmans fault for going on a rampage, its not societies obsession with and proliferation of guns, its not that guns are really common and super easy to get a hold of, laws that dont allow everyone to carry a gun on them all the time are to blame for the death of her parents???

Oh and as someone else mentioned- if the cops watched the gunman kill her mother, why didnt they do anything? Surely they were armed??

the shootings with legally purchased firearms are mostly nuts, with no record before the attack. no backround check will catch a first timer. and again, the rest are thugs who wont use legal channels anyway...years of research shows that.

no band aid...the guns are already out there. too many to ever make confiscation practical.

besides if you account for psych pts and criminals...the us has the same murder rate as holland. so take a deep breath and look at where the problem is instead of mindlessly spouting off ideas that end in the restrifctions of honest americans rights.

i explained why the cops on scene didnt do anything...a few posts up. like i said, im a paramedic and have seen this a hundred times...cops dont just rush in to anything when guns are involved. they set up a perimeter and waqit for backup before they do anything. they were likely survailing when hey saw that murder.

its simple math...the way to counter a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. t
Being a paramedic- dont you believe that prevention is better than a cure?
yes...to the extent that prevention does not infringe others rights.
thats besides the pt. its a flawed premise to assume this will stop the types of violence its acccused of causing without evidence to back that up. scientific studies. policy papers...the anti,s havent mentioned them because they dont support their argument.

What rights are you talking about exactly? The right of anyone to own any kind of weapon they please? The right to live in a society where anyone whos having a bad day can just grab their mothers AR15 and kill a bunch of children? How many crimes are commited with tommy guns these days?
dude just go back and read your post. its an appeal to emotion. feeling REALLY hard doesnt make you correct.

I feel its more of an appeal to common sense. Im simply asking you some very easy questions to explain your stance on these things yet you dont seem to want, or are able to answer them.

You want some objective facts then? Have a look at some of these articles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

http://www.businessinsider.com/shooting-gun-laws-2012-12

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

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omni · ‎05-09-2001

yumpy wrote:

I am in love!!!!! The vdeo is great, one thing she did not mention was velocity if you really want to compre apples to apples. The 30 ought 6 has just as much velocity but the handguns and the shotgun don't come close.

Spike Li · ‎02-28-2009

NOS68 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
NOS68 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
What rights are you talking about exactly? The right of anyone to own any kind of weapon they please? The right to live in a society where anyone whos having a bad day can just grab their mothers AR15 and kill a bunch of children? How many crimes are committed with tommy guns these days?
And how many are committed with AR15's, hint it's a miniscule amount.

Okay, sure, statistically it may be "miniscule", but does that make it "acceptable"? Everytime someone goes and shoots up a school with an AR15 or whatever, do you just write it off as a statistical anomaly or do you think something should be done about it? Do gun advocates really believe that all these deaths are just an unfortunate side effect of their "right" to own these toys to protect them from the boogie man?
I will not back a program that does nothing but lets a bunch of scared little gun grabbers feel better. And all we have to do is go back and look at the last "AWB" ban to see it changes nothing.

Would you support bringing back prohibition to save all those killed in DUI deaths? I mean DUI's account for far more deaths than all long guns combined. Not to mention the domestic violence it causes. Until then I don't believe for a second you give a **bleep** about the kids killed in Sandy Hook, your simply scared of them evil black rifles.
BTW way I don't own any of my AR's to protect my from anybody. I have other firearms set up for home defense. My AR's are for hunting and recreational shooting.

If alcohol made it extremely easy for people for people to go on murder sprees then yes I would be all for prohibition. That isnt the case though. Last time I checked, alcohol consumption is pretty well regulated and there are many laws that deal with the abuse of it.

You know what? I am scared of those big black rifles- what rational person wouldnt be? They arent toys, they are weapons specifically designed to kill and are extremely dangerous. Its beyond me why you Americans have such an obsession with the things, especially seeing the damage they do to your country, it boggles my mind that anyone living in a civilised society would want these things around, let alone feel it is their right and that they need them...

As for not caring about the victims of these crime or the kids at Sandy Hook? Im an Australian. I live in Australia. Practically nobody has guns here and we dont seem to be drowning in the violence and societal problems that plague the US. I dont have a political agenda to push regarding gun control as it doesnt affect me how many Americans like to kill each other.

Oh and who says gun laws/restrictions dont work?
http://theconversation.edu.au/faking-waves-how-the-nra-and-pro-gun-americans-abuse-australian-crime-...

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NOS68 · ‎06-04-2006

Spike Li wrote:
NOS68 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
NOS68 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
What rights are you talking about exactly? The right of anyone to own any kind of weapon they please? The right to live in a society where anyone whos having a bad day can just grab their mothers AR15 and kill a bunch of children? How many crimes are committed with tommy guns these days?
And how many are committed with AR15's, hint it's a miniscule amount.

Okay, sure, statistically it may be "miniscule", but does that make it "acceptable"? Everytime someone goes and shoots up a school with an AR15 or whatever, do you just write it off as a statistical anomaly or do you think something should be done about it? Do gun advocates really believe that all these deaths are just an unfortunate side effect of their "right" to own these toys to protect them from the boogie man?
I will not back a program that does nothing but lets a bunch of scared little gun grabbers feel better. And all we have to do is go back and look at the last "AWB" ban to see it changes nothing.

Would you support bringing back prohibition to save all those killed in DUI deaths? I mean DUI's account for far more deaths than all long guns combined. Not to mention the domestic violence it causes. Until then I don't believe for a second you give a **bleep** about the kids killed in Sandy Hook, your simply scared of them evil black rifles.
BTW way I don't own any of my AR's to protect my from anybody. I have other firearms set up for home defense. My AR's are for hunting and recreational shooting.

If alcohol made it extremely easy for people for people to go on murder sprees then yes I would be all for prohibition. That isn't the case though. Last time I checked, alcohol consumption is pretty well regulated and there are many laws that deal with the abuse of it.
You know what? I am scared of those big black rifles- what rational person wouldn't be? They aren't toys, they are weapons specifically designed to kill and are extremely dangerous. Its beyond me why you Americans have such an obsession with the things, especially seeing the damage they do to your country, it boggles my mind that anyone living in a civilized society would want these things around, let alone feel it is their right and that they need them...

As for not caring about the victims of these crime or the kids at Sandy Hook? Im an Australian. I live in Australia. Practically nobody has guns here and we don't seem to be drowning in the violence and societal problems that plague the US. I don't have a political agenda to push regarding gun control as it doesn't affect me how many Americans like to kill each other.
Oh and who says gun laws/restrictions don't work?
http://theconversation.edu.au/faking-waves-how-the-nra-and-pro-gun-americans-abuse-australian-crime-...

There are far more people killed by drunk drivers than AR15's but those deaths are ok by you I guess. If you had a magic wand and could make one or the other disappear of the face of the Earth, which would you choose?

And what are you talking about it being highly regulated. If you're 21 here you can by it doesn't matter if you have 1 DUI or 21 you can still by booze. Doesn't even matter if you just got out of jail for DUI manslaughter you can stroll into your local liquor store or corner bar and buy it.

At least you admit your scared of EBR's but fear is not a place to be legislating from. You stand a much better chance of being killed by a drunk driver than any "Assault Weapon" but yet your fine with booze.

Nobody on hear has ever said AR15's are toys, they are firearms and need to be treated and handled safely. Deer and hogs are the only creatures that need to fear mine. Break into my house you need to fear a Mossberg 500.

And now lets hear from an Aussie with a different opinion.

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yumpy · ‎01-17-2013

omni wrote:
yumpy wrote:
I am in love!!!!! The vdeo is great, one thing she did not mention was velocity if you really want to compre apples to apples. The 30 ought 6 has just as much velocity but the handguns and the shotgun don't come close.

she is a hottie. nice gun rack, too.

the point was to show what each different round can do for damage.

the .223 is being vilified. everything after, blows a bigger hole.

what do u expect when your victims can't fight back? a .22 will kill, also.

i've shot a full auto, mac something, 30rd clip, 2 1/2" barrel and couldn't hit the target, it would be good in a crowded room/close quarters and to keep heads down, but not much else.

anyway, she makes me wet. lol!

yumpy · ‎01-17-2013

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