Re: If you have not seen this you need to.

gtrjones · ‎12-12-2000

Davo17 wrote:
gtrjones wrote:
So she carried illegally for years, then realized that was a felony, so left her gun in her car. And that's why her parents died? What's the point again? Why didn't she just go get a CHL?
where did you get thaqt? some of the libs here seem thuggish...as the first thing they assume is the victim is to blame. classy.

since the vid may have confused you what with both words AND pictures lemme explain. i cant draw you a picture though...
its texas and concealed and open carry are very common. its liberal areas that restrict guns.
guess where the kind of nut who wants to kill large amounts of people tends to target? places where he know nobody can stop him. these guys are about body counts you idiot.

im a paramedic...even with a single shooter when someone calls 911 we you are looking at 10 plus minutes before cops have staged, set a perimeter, and started to move towards the shooter.

thats 10 minutes with an unopposed nut shooting every which way.

the way these guys go out is often suicide, often after being confronted, or being cut down when others WITH GUNS finally get there. guns are needed to counter men with guns if u didnt get the memo.

I actually watched the video. She talked about how someone gave her a gun when she was 17 (edit - sorry, watched the video again, she got the gun from a friend, when she was 21), and she carried it in her purse. But then she realized that carrying w/o a permit was a felony, and so she left the gun in her car. That's why she didn't have her gun with her that day.

Did you even watch the video?

She admitted that she carried illegally, and then instead of actually getting a CHL, she just left the gun in her car.

The shooting occured at a restaurant, which was not 'restricting guns'... And if she's really advocating for guns stopping guns, why didn't she have a CHL and her own gun, in her own purse?

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' "
— Isaac Asimov

Zooey · ‎01-10-2002

All I really want to know is so when will Obama release the Sandy Hook photos.

Spike Li · ‎02-28-2009

Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
So gun control is a bad thing because mass shootings are simple part of everyday life?
Got it.
oh so close! you almost had it.
gun control is bad because it restricts others while not stoppong the problem.
most of these shooters are mentally unstable but have nothing preventing them from making these purchases quietly before hand... or they are already violent criminals who dont follow laws by definition.
so laws the dont target the problem are ineffective band aids that make some of us feel better without actually solving anything.
bad laws are not the solution.
ergo, sit on a tack.

Sit on a tack? Id rather not...

Havent a lot of these mass shootings occurred with legally obtained firearms and ammunition?

Dont you think that adding more guns so people can "protect themselves" is actually the bandaid solution? Im pretty sure that the US doesnt have a monopoly on mentally unstable people (although I could be wrong) but it does seem to have a monopoly on gun crime and mass shootings... why is that? Is it because not enough "good guys" have guns or is it something else?

So let me get this right: according to the lady in the video- its not the gunmans fault for going on a rampage, its not societies obsession with and proliferation of guns, its not that guns are really common and super easy to get a hold of, laws that dont allow everyone to carry a gun on them all the time are to blame for the death of her parents???

Oh and as someone else mentioned- if the cops watched the gunman kill her mother, why didnt they do anything? Surely they were armed??

Gear:
Cort m200 (with SD 59/JB combo)
Ampeg Dan Armstrong
Gibson Firebird Studio
Gibson Explorer x2 (natural/white)
Gibson LP studio
Squier Tele Custom II
Godin LG EMG
Hello Kitty Strat

Edwards LPC
Jackson COW 6
Jim Root Strat
ESP Eclipse I DBSB
Billy Corgan Strat
50s Tribute Goldtop HB
Squier Mini Strat

Fender Cabronita Tele

Davo17 · ‎03-24-2009

guido61 wrote:
Davo17 wrote:

because they were rarely wanted or used in crimes even before requiring a tax stamp...i think its because they were novelties and after 86 you couldnt get a new one.

Exactly. Goverment regulation made them rare and uncommon and undesirable. Same thing could be accomplished with assault rifles although, clearly, the fact that we didn't jump on it sooner the way we did the full-autos will make it more difficult.
But even if it takes decades, it's still worth pursuing. Why? Because they give great advantage to the bad guys and virtually no advantage to the good guys.
Your right to defend yourself with a gun would remain intact and uninfringed.

such idiotic inferences there.

DSM-IV 301.95 Progressive Personality Disorder
A. A pervasive pattern of progressive political and inter-personal thought and action, rooted in discredited leftist (neo-Marxist) beliefs, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following (individual must be at least 18 years of age to qualify for the diagnosis of Progressive Personality Disorder, as many of the criteria are age-appropriate for adolescents). This disorder often coexists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Utopian thinking, e.g. a delusional belief that there exist simple, linear, side effect-free solutions to all social problems.
Lack of historical knowledge and perspective, and repression of personal memories dissonant with this belief system. e.g., the national mood post 9-11, including that of PPD patients, is suppressed in order to avoid conflict with subsequent reversal of beliefs as the PPD delusions were reinstated - hence the downplaying of terrorism as a threat and the obsessive concern for the "rghts" of temporarily feared and hated terrorists. (Note to clinician: please differentiate between mere historical ignorance, e.g., a doctorate in history from an elite university, vs. neurotic or psychotic delusions necessary to sustain these beliefs. )
Anthroplastic delusion, e.g. The delusion that behavioral conditioning performed by the government or some other collective will cure all behavioral and social problems, rooted in denial of fixed human nature. Implicit in this delusion is the idea that human beings are infinitely malleable and subject to behavioral manipulation leading to perfect control and predictability. Free will, personal conscience, and objective morality are denied, devalued or denigrated.
Anti-theistic rebellion: An emotional antagonism to the Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in an abnormal persistence of adolescent rebellion (may also be related to the need to avoid counter-arguments that would question utopian, anthroplastic ideation). This behavior ranges from a mere antagonism to Christianity to a hatred of all forms of religion. The rejection of religion leads to a deep longing for a substitute religion, or in extreme cases, a messiah. The more Western a religion is, the more it is despised. Thus, these patients may openly accept more primitive pantheistic, neo-pagan, or animist belief systems, such as Wicca or fraudulent "new age" philosophies, e.g., Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc.
Animist delusion: The belief that mankind is evil and nature is benign. The incidence of this symptom is inversely related to practical knowledge and experience of nature. Collective self-hatred is a feature in this area, paradoxically existing side by side with egomaniacal omniscience, e.g., ability to accurately predict climate 100 years into the future. Typical thinking includes the self-hating belief that mankind is a cancer on earth and that the planet (subjectively felt as a "feeling being") will "retaliate." The animist delusion includes considerable cognitive dissonance, since the typical Progressive Personality is a believer in natural selection, which has resulted in untold suffering and cruelty, mitigated only by mankind's presence.
a. For example, the belief that an eagle egg or four-toed salamander is entitled to more legal protection than a human baby.
Environmental spasm: Chaotic, unreasonable, or incoherent episodes of manic activity on behalf of the environment or "mother nature." The delusional nature of this activity is evidenced by misanthropic attacks on works of man, and also by a manic focus on visible or totemic biological objects of little rational value. The patient is typically obsessed only with cute or cuddly creatures, often a displacement of the nurturing urge (often unfulfilled due to abortion).
Control obsession: A tendency to strive for excessive control over others through state intrusion. A contemptuous projection of unconscious envy which is subjectively experienced as "compassion." Through the magic of this unconscious mechanism, PPD patients typically want the state to appropriate your wealth while imagining themselves to be generous and "compassionate." Use of state coercion often substitutes for true acts of generosity; a low rate of charitable giving is often present.
Racist/feminist hypocrisy: Passionate advocacy of government-enforced discrimination based on sex or race, with aggressively proclaimed opposition to policies which are "racist" or "sexist." Obsessive conformity of thought within a racially diverse population. For example, a PPD patient might favor seating a racist on the Supreme Court, so long as the person is of the "correct" race. Often the cognitive dissonance normally associated with such beliefs is rationalized by the delusion that the "oppressed" cannot themselves be racist.
Overemotional perception: Excessive concern with how a social action "looks" or "feels," to the exclusion of actual resulting benefits or harm; in particular, any effects beyond the immediate. Resistance to, and denial of, objective evidence proving the adverse consequences of progressive policy. Superficial cognition about most matters of significant import, as the progressive personality relies on the "feel" of issues rather than truly understanding them. Obsession with "fairness" or "social justice" as opposed to what actually works.
Sexual dysfunction: Significant anxiety about sexual matters, manifested as:
a. Obsession with sexual and gender roles.
b. Passionate celebration of nontraditional sex roles and preferences.
c. The compulsion to define individuals by their "sexual preference" and to design social policy as if all individuals share the obsession.
d. An inordinate interest in preserving inappropriate, lewd, perverse, or antisocial forms of sexual expression.
e. Fascination with immature or deviant expressions of sexuality; reduction of human sexuality to animal sexuality.
f. The projected belief that the contradictory beliefs are a result of fear (e.g. "homophobia".
e. Obsession with contraception and abortion ("reproductive freedom").
Replacement of patriotism with matriotism: Unwillingness to defend country when attacked or threatened, allied with inability to name or recognize evil and General devaluation of the masculine virtues.
Cultural and moral relativism: The fervent belief that all cultures are beautiful except one's own, and that it is immoral to judge another's morality unless they are conservative.

Davo17 · ‎03-24-2009

gtrjones wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
gtrjones wrote:
So she carried illegally for years, then realized that was a felony, so left her gun in her car. And that's why her parents died? What's the point again? Why didn't she just go get a CHL?
where did you get thaqt? some of the libs here seem thuggish...as the first thing they assume is the victim is to blame. classy.

since the vid may have confused you what with both words AND pictures lemme explain. i cant draw you a picture though...
its texas and concealed and open carry are very common. its liberal areas that restrict guns.
guess where the kind of nut who wants to kill large amounts of people tends to target? places where he know nobody can stop him. these guys are about body counts you idiot.

im a paramedic...even with a single shooter when someone calls 911 we you are looking at 10 plus minutes before cops have staged, set a perimeter, and started to move towards the shooter.

thats 10 minutes with an unopposed nut shooting every which way.

the way these guys go out is often suicide, often after being confronted, or being cut down when others WITH GUNS finally get there. guns are needed to counter men with guns if u didnt get the memo.

I actually watched the video. She talked about how someone gave her a gun when she was 17 (edit - sorry, watched the video again, she got the gun from a friend, when she was 21), and she carried it in her purse. But then she realized that carrying w/o a permit was a felony, and so she left the gun in her car. That's why she didn't have her gun with her that day.
Did you even watch the video?
She admitted that she carried illegally, and then instead of actually getting a CHL, she just left the gun in her car.

The shooting occured at a restaurant, which was not 'restricting guns'... And if she's really advocating for guns stopping guns, why didn't she have a CHL and her own gun, in her own purse?

she carried legally, and when a local place banned that, she left her gun to comply. nothinh illegal.

DSM-IV 301.95 Progressive Personality Disorder
A. A pervasive pattern of progressive political and inter-personal thought and action, rooted in discredited leftist (neo-Marxist) beliefs, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following (individual must be at least 18 years of age to qualify for the diagnosis of Progressive Personality Disorder, as many of the criteria are age-appropriate for adolescents). This disorder often coexists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Utopian thinking, e.g. a delusional belief that there exist simple, linear, side effect-free solutions to all social problems.
Lack of historical knowledge and perspective, and repression of personal memories dissonant with this belief system. e.g., the national mood post 9-11, including that of PPD patients, is suppressed in order to avoid conflict with subsequent reversal of beliefs as the PPD delusions were reinstated - hence the downplaying of terrorism as a threat and the obsessive concern for the "rghts" of temporarily feared and hated terrorists. (Note to clinician: please differentiate between mere historical ignorance, e.g., a doctorate in history from an elite university, vs. neurotic or psychotic delusions necessary to sustain these beliefs. )
Anthroplastic delusion, e.g. The delusion that behavioral conditioning performed by the government or some other collective will cure all behavioral and social problems, rooted in denial of fixed human nature. Implicit in this delusion is the idea that human beings are infinitely malleable and subject to behavioral manipulation leading to perfect control and predictability. Free will, personal conscience, and objective morality are denied, devalued or denigrated.
Anti-theistic rebellion: An emotional antagonism to the Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in an abnormal persistence of adolescent rebellion (may also be related to the need to avoid counter-arguments that would question utopian, anthroplastic ideation). This behavior ranges from a mere antagonism to Christianity to a hatred of all forms of religion. The rejection of religion leads to a deep longing for a substitute religion, or in extreme cases, a messiah. The more Western a religion is, the more it is despised. Thus, these patients may openly accept more primitive pantheistic, neo-pagan, or animist belief systems, such as Wicca or fraudulent "new age" philosophies, e.g., Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc.
Animist delusion: The belief that mankind is evil and nature is benign. The incidence of this symptom is inversely related to practical knowledge and experience of nature. Collective self-hatred is a feature in this area, paradoxically existing side by side with egomaniacal omniscience, e.g., ability to accurately predict climate 100 years into the future. Typical thinking includes the self-hating belief that mankind is a cancer on earth and that the planet (subjectively felt as a "feeling being") will "retaliate." The animist delusion includes considerable cognitive dissonance, since the typical Progressive Personality is a believer in natural selection, which has resulted in untold suffering and cruelty, mitigated only by mankind's presence.
a. For example, the belief that an eagle egg or four-toed salamander is entitled to more legal protection than a human baby.
Environmental spasm: Chaotic, unreasonable, or incoherent episodes of manic activity on behalf of the environment or "mother nature." The delusional nature of this activity is evidenced by misanthropic attacks on works of man, and also by a manic focus on visible or totemic biological objects of little rational value. The patient is typically obsessed only with cute or cuddly creatures, often a displacement of the nurturing urge (often unfulfilled due to abortion).
Control obsession: A tendency to strive for excessive control over others through state intrusion. A contemptuous projection of unconscious envy which is subjectively experienced as "compassion." Through the magic of this unconscious mechanism, PPD patients typically want the state to appropriate your wealth while imagining themselves to be generous and "compassionate." Use of state coercion often substitutes for true acts of generosity; a low rate of charitable giving is often present.
Racist/feminist hypocrisy: Passionate advocacy of government-enforced discrimination based on sex or race, with aggressively proclaimed opposition to policies which are "racist" or "sexist." Obsessive conformity of thought within a racially diverse population. For example, a PPD patient might favor seating a racist on the Supreme Court, so long as the person is of the "correct" race. Often the cognitive dissonance normally associated with such beliefs is rationalized by the delusion that the "oppressed" cannot themselves be racist.
Overemotional perception: Excessive concern with how a social action "looks" or "feels," to the exclusion of actual resulting benefits or harm; in particular, any effects beyond the immediate. Resistance to, and denial of, objective evidence proving the adverse consequences of progressive policy. Superficial cognition about most matters of significant import, as the progressive personality relies on the "feel" of issues rather than truly understanding them. Obsession with "fairness" or "social justice" as opposed to what actually works.
Sexual dysfunction: Significant anxiety about sexual matters, manifested as:
a. Obsession with sexual and gender roles.
b. Passionate celebration of nontraditional sex roles and preferences.
c. The compulsion to define individuals by their "sexual preference" and to design social policy as if all individuals share the obsession.
d. An inordinate interest in preserving inappropriate, lewd, perverse, or antisocial forms of sexual expression.
e. Fascination with immature or deviant expressions of sexuality; reduction of human sexuality to animal sexuality.
f. The projected belief that the contradictory beliefs are a result of fear (e.g. "homophobia".
e. Obsession with contraception and abortion ("reproductive freedom").
Replacement of patriotism with matriotism: Unwillingness to defend country when attacked or threatened, allied with inability to name or recognize evil and General devaluation of the masculine virtues.
Cultural and moral relativism: The fervent belief that all cultures are beautiful except one's own, and that it is immoral to judge another's morality unless they are conservative.

omni · ‎05-09-2001

She brings out some excellent points and she has been though a hell storm seeing her own parents murdered, still she knew the person that did it was deranged and it was not the fault of the guns and if she had her gun she could have saved her parents.

Davo17 · ‎03-24-2009

Spike Li wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
So gun control is a bad thing because mass shootings are simple part of everyday life?
Got it.
oh so close! you almost had it.
gun control is bad because it restricts others while not stoppong the problem.
most of these shooters are mentally unstable but have nothing preventing them from making these purchases quietly before hand... or they are already violent criminals who dont follow laws by definition.
so laws the dont target the problem are ineffective band aids that make some of us feel better without actually solving anything.
bad laws are not the solution.
ergo, sit on a tack.

Sit on a tack? Id rather not...
Havent a lot of these mass shootings occurred with legally obtained firearms and ammunition?
Dont you think that adding more guns so people can "protect themselves" is actually the bandaid solution? Im pretty sure that the US doesnt have a monopoly on mentally unstable people (although I could be wrong) but it does seem to have a monopoly on gun crime and mass shootings... why is that? Is it because not enough "good guys" have guns or is it something else?
So let me get this right: according to the lady in the video- its not the gunmans fault for going on a rampage, its not societies obsession with and proliferation of guns, its not that guns are really common and super easy to get a hold of, laws that dont allow everyone to carry a gun on them all the time are to blame for the death of her parents???

Oh and as someone else mentioned- if the cops watched the gunman kill her mother, why didnt they do anything? Surely they were armed??

the shootings with legally purchased firearms are mostly nuts, with no record before the attack. no backround check will catch a first timer. and again, the rest are thugs who wont use legal channels anyway...years of research shows that.

no band aid...the guns are already out there. too many to ever make confiscation practical.

besides if you account for psych pts and criminals...the us has the same murder rate as holland. so take a deep breath and look at where the problem is instead of mindlessly spouting off ideas that end in the restrifctions of honest americans rights.

i explained why the cops on scene didnt do anything...a few posts up. like i said, im a paramedic and have seen this a hundred times...cops dont just rush in to anything when guns are involved. they set up a perimeter and waqit for backup before they do anything. they were likely survailing when hey saw that murder.

its simple math...the way to counter a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. t

DSM-IV 301.95 Progressive Personality Disorder
A. A pervasive pattern of progressive political and inter-personal thought and action, rooted in discredited leftist (neo-Marxist) beliefs, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following (individual must be at least 18 years of age to qualify for the diagnosis of Progressive Personality Disorder, as many of the criteria are age-appropriate for adolescents). This disorder often coexists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Utopian thinking, e.g. a delusional belief that there exist simple, linear, side effect-free solutions to all social problems.
Lack of historical knowledge and perspective, and repression of personal memories dissonant with this belief system. e.g., the national mood post 9-11, including that of PPD patients, is suppressed in order to avoid conflict with subsequent reversal of beliefs as the PPD delusions were reinstated - hence the downplaying of terrorism as a threat and the obsessive concern for the "rghts" of temporarily feared and hated terrorists. (Note to clinician: please differentiate between mere historical ignorance, e.g., a doctorate in history from an elite university, vs. neurotic or psychotic delusions necessary to sustain these beliefs. )
Anthroplastic delusion, e.g. The delusion that behavioral conditioning performed by the government or some other collective will cure all behavioral and social problems, rooted in denial of fixed human nature. Implicit in this delusion is the idea that human beings are infinitely malleable and subject to behavioral manipulation leading to perfect control and predictability. Free will, personal conscience, and objective morality are denied, devalued or denigrated.
Anti-theistic rebellion: An emotional antagonism to the Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in an abnormal persistence of adolescent rebellion (may also be related to the need to avoid counter-arguments that would question utopian, anthroplastic ideation). This behavior ranges from a mere antagonism to Christianity to a hatred of all forms of religion. The rejection of religion leads to a deep longing for a substitute religion, or in extreme cases, a messiah. The more Western a religion is, the more it is despised. Thus, these patients may openly accept more primitive pantheistic, neo-pagan, or animist belief systems, such as Wicca or fraudulent "new age" philosophies, e.g., Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc.
Animist delusion: The belief that mankind is evil and nature is benign. The incidence of this symptom is inversely related to practical knowledge and experience of nature. Collective self-hatred is a feature in this area, paradoxically existing side by side with egomaniacal omniscience, e.g., ability to accurately predict climate 100 years into the future. Typical thinking includes the self-hating belief that mankind is a cancer on earth and that the planet (subjectively felt as a "feeling being") will "retaliate." The animist delusion includes considerable cognitive dissonance, since the typical Progressive Personality is a believer in natural selection, which has resulted in untold suffering and cruelty, mitigated only by mankind's presence.
a. For example, the belief that an eagle egg or four-toed salamander is entitled to more legal protection than a human baby.
Environmental spasm: Chaotic, unreasonable, or incoherent episodes of manic activity on behalf of the environment or "mother nature." The delusional nature of this activity is evidenced by misanthropic attacks on works of man, and also by a manic focus on visible or totemic biological objects of little rational value. The patient is typically obsessed only with cute or cuddly creatures, often a displacement of the nurturing urge (often unfulfilled due to abortion).
Control obsession: A tendency to strive for excessive control over others through state intrusion. A contemptuous projection of unconscious envy which is subjectively experienced as "compassion." Through the magic of this unconscious mechanism, PPD patients typically want the state to appropriate your wealth while imagining themselves to be generous and "compassionate." Use of state coercion often substitutes for true acts of generosity; a low rate of charitable giving is often present.
Racist/feminist hypocrisy: Passionate advocacy of government-enforced discrimination based on sex or race, with aggressively proclaimed opposition to policies which are "racist" or "sexist." Obsessive conformity of thought within a racially diverse population. For example, a PPD patient might favor seating a racist on the Supreme Court, so long as the person is of the "correct" race. Often the cognitive dissonance normally associated with such beliefs is rationalized by the delusion that the "oppressed" cannot themselves be racist.
Overemotional perception: Excessive concern with how a social action "looks" or "feels," to the exclusion of actual resulting benefits or harm; in particular, any effects beyond the immediate. Resistance to, and denial of, objective evidence proving the adverse consequences of progressive policy. Superficial cognition about most matters of significant import, as the progressive personality relies on the "feel" of issues rather than truly understanding them. Obsession with "fairness" or "social justice" as opposed to what actually works.
Sexual dysfunction: Significant anxiety about sexual matters, manifested as:
a. Obsession with sexual and gender roles.
b. Passionate celebration of nontraditional sex roles and preferences.
c. The compulsion to define individuals by their "sexual preference" and to design social policy as if all individuals share the obsession.
d. An inordinate interest in preserving inappropriate, lewd, perverse, or antisocial forms of sexual expression.
e. Fascination with immature or deviant expressions of sexuality; reduction of human sexuality to animal sexuality.
f. The projected belief that the contradictory beliefs are a result of fear (e.g. "homophobia".
e. Obsession with contraception and abortion ("reproductive freedom").
Replacement of patriotism with matriotism: Unwillingness to defend country when attacked or threatened, allied with inability to name or recognize evil and General devaluation of the masculine virtues.
Cultural and moral relativism: The fervent belief that all cultures are beautiful except one's own, and that it is immoral to judge another's morality unless they are conservative.

Spike Li · ‎02-28-2009

Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
So gun control is a bad thing because mass shootings are simple part of everyday life?
Got it.
oh so close! you almost had it.
gun control is bad because it restricts others while not stoppong the problem.
most of these shooters are mentally unstable but have nothing preventing them from making these purchases quietly before hand... or they are already violent criminals who dont follow laws by definition.
so laws the dont target the problem are ineffective band aids that make some of us feel better without actually solving anything.
bad laws are not the solution.
ergo, sit on a tack.

Sit on a tack? Id rather not...
Havent a lot of these mass shootings occurred with legally obtained firearms and ammunition?
Dont you think that adding more guns so people can "protect themselves" is actually the bandaid solution? Im pretty sure that the US doesnt have a monopoly on mentally unstable people (although I could be wrong) but it does seem to have a monopoly on gun crime and mass shootings... why is that? Is it because not enough "good guys" have guns or is it something else?
So let me get this right: according to the lady in the video- its not the gunmans fault for going on a rampage, its not societies obsession with and proliferation of guns, its not that guns are really common and super easy to get a hold of, laws that dont allow everyone to carry a gun on them all the time are to blame for the death of her parents???

Oh and as someone else mentioned- if the cops watched the gunman kill her mother, why didnt they do anything? Surely they were armed??

the shootings with legally purchased firearms are mostly nuts, with no record before the attack. no backround check will catch a first timer. and again, the rest are thugs who wont use legal channels anyway...years of research shows that.

no band aid...the guns are already out there. too many to ever make confiscation practical.

besides if you account for psych pts and criminals...the us has the same murder rate as holland. so take a deep breath and look at where the problem is instead of mindlessly spouting off ideas that end in the restrifctions of honest americans rights.

i explained why the cops on scene didnt do anything...a few posts up. like i said, im a paramedic and have seen this a hundred times...cops dont just rush in to anything when guns are involved. they set up a perimeter and waqit for backup before they do anything. they were likely survailing when hey saw that murder.

its simple math...the way to counter a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. t

Being a paramedic- dont you believe that prevention is better than a cure?

Gear:
Cort m200 (with SD 59/JB combo)
Ampeg Dan Armstrong
Gibson Firebird Studio
Gibson Explorer x2 (natural/white)
Gibson LP studio
Squier Tele Custom II
Godin LG EMG
Hello Kitty Strat

Edwards LPC
Jackson COW 6
Jim Root Strat
ESP Eclipse I DBSB
Billy Corgan Strat
50s Tribute Goldtop HB
Squier Mini Strat

Fender Cabronita Tele

omni · ‎05-09-2001

Spike Li wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
So gun control is a bad thing because mass shootings are simple part of everyday life?
Got it.
oh so close! you almost had it.
gun control is bad because it restricts others while not stoppong the problem.
most of these shooters are mentally unstable but have nothing preventing them from making these purchases quietly before hand... or they are already violent criminals who dont follow laws by definition.
so laws the dont target the problem are ineffective band aids that make some of us feel better without actually solving anything.
bad laws are not the solution.
ergo, sit on a tack.

Sit on a tack? Id rather not...
Havent a lot of these mass shootings occurred with legally obtained firearms and ammunition?
Dont you think that adding more guns so people can "protect themselves" is actually the bandaid solution? Im pretty sure that the US doesnt have a monopoly on mentally unstable people (although I could be wrong) but it does seem to have a monopoly on gun crime and mass shootings... why is that? Is it because not enough "good guys" have guns or is it something else?
So let me get this right: according to the lady in the video- its not the gunmans fault for going on a rampage, its not societies obsession with and proliferation of guns, its not that guns are really common and super easy to get a hold of, laws that dont allow everyone to carry a gun on them all the time are to blame for the death of her parents???

Oh and as someone else mentioned- if the cops watched the gunman kill her mother, why didnt they do anything? Surely they were armed??

the shootings with legally purchased firearms are mostly nuts, with no record before the attack. no backround check will catch a first timer. and again, the rest are thugs who wont use legal channels anyway...years of research shows that.

no band aid...the guns are already out there. too many to ever make confiscation practical.

besides if you account for psych pts and criminals...the us has the same murder rate as holland. so take a deep breath and look at where the problem is instead of mindlessly spouting off ideas that end in the restrifctions of honest americans rights.

i explained why the cops on scene didnt do anything...a few posts up. like i said, im a paramedic and have seen this a hundred times...cops dont just rush in to anything when guns are involved. they set up a perimeter and waqit for backup before they do anything. they were likely survailing when hey saw that murder.

its simple math...the way to counter a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. t
Being a paramedic- dont you believe that prevention is better than a cure?

I like the fact knowing about prevention but it happens, having a cure is a life saver.

guido61 · ‎12-09-2001

Davo17 wrote:

such idiotic inferences there.

Davo17 once again has no answer to simple logic.

By your own admission, fully automatic guns, most of which have been illegal since the 1930s, are rarely used in crimes because they are expensive and rare. But you can't see how this same logic could be applied to other types of weapons?

LOL

--David

FOR SALE: DBX Driverack PX; DBX 231 EQ; Behringer Racktuner; Rane SAC 22 crossover; Alesis D4 drum module; Line 6 Pod Pro rackmount.

Band website: http://www.JumpStartYourParty.com
http://www.gigmasters.com/Rock/Jump-Start/

Stage gear: Korg Kronos, Yamaha Motif, M-Audio Venom, Neo Ventilator, Digitech GSP-1101, Fender Stratocaster, Takamine Eg544SC, Samson SM10 line mixer, Alesis Picoverb, Samson Airline 77 Wireless, APC Smart-UPS SC 450VA

gtrjones · ‎12-12-2000

Davo17 wrote:
gtrjones wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
gtrjones wrote:
So she carried illegally for years, then realized that was a felony, so left her gun in her car. And that's why her parents died? What's the point again? Why didn't she just go get a CHL?
where did you get thaqt? some of the libs here seem thuggish...as the first thing they assume is the victim is to blame. classy.

since the vid may have confused you what with both words AND pictures lemme explain. i cant draw you a picture though...
its texas and concealed and open carry are very common. its liberal areas that restrict guns.
guess where the kind of nut who wants to kill large amounts of people tends to target? places where he know nobody can stop him. these guys are about body counts you idiot.

im a paramedic...even with a single shooter when someone calls 911 we you are looking at 10 plus minutes before cops have staged, set a perimeter, and started to move towards the shooter.

thats 10 minutes with an unopposed nut shooting every which way.

the way these guys go out is often suicide, often after being confronted, or being cut down when others WITH GUNS finally get there. guns are needed to counter men with guns if u didnt get the memo.

I actually watched the video. She talked about how someone gave her a gun when she was 17 (edit - sorry, watched the video again, she got the gun from a friend, when she was 21), and she carried it in her purse. But then she realized that carrying w/o a permit was a felony, and so she left the gun in her car. That's why she didn't have her gun with her that day.
Did you even watch the video?
She admitted that she carried illegally, and then instead of actually getting a CHL, she just left the gun in her car.

The shooting occured at a restaurant, which was not 'restricting guns'... And if she's really advocating for guns stopping guns, why didn't she have a CHL and her own gun, in her own purse?
she carried legally, and when a local place banned that, she left her gun to comply. nothinh illegal.

You are thoroughly wrong. Both her testimony in the video, and the wiki article on the Luby's shooting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre) indicate that she did not have a current CHL, and not that the restaurant restricted guns...

"She later expressed regret about deciding to leave her gun in her car lest she risk possibly running afoul of the state's concealed weapons laws;..."

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' "
— Isaac Asimov

Davo17 · ‎03-24-2009

Spike Li wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
So gun control is a bad thing because mass shootings are simple part of everyday life?
Got it.
oh so close! you almost had it.
gun control is bad because it restricts others while not stoppong the problem.
most of these shooters are mentally unstable but have nothing preventing them from making these purchases quietly before hand... or they are already violent criminals who dont follow laws by definition.
so laws the dont target the problem are ineffective band aids that make some of us feel better without actually solving anything.
bad laws are not the solution.
ergo, sit on a tack.

Sit on a tack? Id rather not...
Havent a lot of these mass shootings occurred with legally obtained firearms and ammunition?
Dont you think that adding more guns so people can "protect themselves" is actually the bandaid solution? Im pretty sure that the US doesnt have a monopoly on mentally unstable people (although I could be wrong) but it does seem to have a monopoly on gun crime and mass shootings... why is that? Is it because not enough "good guys" have guns or is it something else?
So let me get this right: according to the lady in the video- its not the gunmans fault for going on a rampage, its not societies obsession with and proliferation of guns, its not that guns are really common and super easy to get a hold of, laws that dont allow everyone to carry a gun on them all the time are to blame for the death of her parents???

Oh and as someone else mentioned- if the cops watched the gunman kill her mother, why didnt they do anything? Surely they were armed??

the shootings with legally purchased firearms are mostly nuts, with no record before the attack. no backround check will catch a first timer. and again, the rest are thugs who wont use legal channels anyway...years of research shows that.

no band aid...the guns are already out there. too many to ever make confiscation practical.

besides if you account for psych pts and criminals...the us has the same murder rate as holland. so take a deep breath and look at where the problem is instead of mindlessly spouting off ideas that end in the restrifctions of honest americans rights.

i explained why the cops on scene didnt do anything...a few posts up. like i said, im a paramedic and have seen this a hundred times...cops dont just rush in to anything when guns are involved. they set up a perimeter and waqit for backup before they do anything. they were likely survailing when hey saw that murder.

its simple math...the way to counter a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. t
Being a paramedic- dont you believe that prevention is better than a cure?

yes...to the extent that prevention does not infringe others rights.

thats besides the pt. its a flawed premise to assume this will stop the types of violence its acccused of causing without evidence to back that up. scientific studies. policy papers...the anti,s havent mentioned them because they dont support their argument.

DSM-IV 301.95 Progressive Personality Disorder
A. A pervasive pattern of progressive political and inter-personal thought and action, rooted in discredited leftist (neo-Marxist) beliefs, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following (individual must be at least 18 years of age to qualify for the diagnosis of Progressive Personality Disorder, as many of the criteria are age-appropriate for adolescents). This disorder often coexists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Utopian thinking, e.g. a delusional belief that there exist simple, linear, side effect-free solutions to all social problems.
Lack of historical knowledge and perspective, and repression of personal memories dissonant with this belief system. e.g., the national mood post 9-11, including that of PPD patients, is suppressed in order to avoid conflict with subsequent reversal of beliefs as the PPD delusions were reinstated - hence the downplaying of terrorism as a threat and the obsessive concern for the "rghts" of temporarily feared and hated terrorists. (Note to clinician: please differentiate between mere historical ignorance, e.g., a doctorate in history from an elite university, vs. neurotic or psychotic delusions necessary to sustain these beliefs. )
Anthroplastic delusion, e.g. The delusion that behavioral conditioning performed by the government or some other collective will cure all behavioral and social problems, rooted in denial of fixed human nature. Implicit in this delusion is the idea that human beings are infinitely malleable and subject to behavioral manipulation leading to perfect control and predictability. Free will, personal conscience, and objective morality are denied, devalued or denigrated.
Anti-theistic rebellion: An emotional antagonism to the Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in an abnormal persistence of adolescent rebellion (may also be related to the need to avoid counter-arguments that would question utopian, anthroplastic ideation). This behavior ranges from a mere antagonism to Christianity to a hatred of all forms of religion. The rejection of religion leads to a deep longing for a substitute religion, or in extreme cases, a messiah. The more Western a religion is, the more it is despised. Thus, these patients may openly accept more primitive pantheistic, neo-pagan, or animist belief systems, such as Wicca or fraudulent "new age" philosophies, e.g., Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc.
Animist delusion: The belief that mankind is evil and nature is benign. The incidence of this symptom is inversely related to practical knowledge and experience of nature. Collective self-hatred is a feature in this area, paradoxically existing side by side with egomaniacal omniscience, e.g., ability to accurately predict climate 100 years into the future. Typical thinking includes the self-hating belief that mankind is a cancer on earth and that the planet (subjectively felt as a "feeling being") will "retaliate." The animist delusion includes considerable cognitive dissonance, since the typical Progressive Personality is a believer in natural selection, which has resulted in untold suffering and cruelty, mitigated only by mankind's presence.
a. For example, the belief that an eagle egg or four-toed salamander is entitled to more legal protection than a human baby.
Environmental spasm: Chaotic, unreasonable, or incoherent episodes of manic activity on behalf of the environment or "mother nature." The delusional nature of this activity is evidenced by misanthropic attacks on works of man, and also by a manic focus on visible or totemic biological objects of little rational value. The patient is typically obsessed only with cute or cuddly creatures, often a displacement of the nurturing urge (often unfulfilled due to abortion).
Control obsession: A tendency to strive for excessive control over others through state intrusion. A contemptuous projection of unconscious envy which is subjectively experienced as "compassion." Through the magic of this unconscious mechanism, PPD patients typically want the state to appropriate your wealth while imagining themselves to be generous and "compassionate." Use of state coercion often substitutes for true acts of generosity; a low rate of charitable giving is often present.
Racist/feminist hypocrisy: Passionate advocacy of government-enforced discrimination based on sex or race, with aggressively proclaimed opposition to policies which are "racist" or "sexist." Obsessive conformity of thought within a racially diverse population. For example, a PPD patient might favor seating a racist on the Supreme Court, so long as the person is of the "correct" race. Often the cognitive dissonance normally associated with such beliefs is rationalized by the delusion that the "oppressed" cannot themselves be racist.
Overemotional perception: Excessive concern with how a social action "looks" or "feels," to the exclusion of actual resulting benefits or harm; in particular, any effects beyond the immediate. Resistance to, and denial of, objective evidence proving the adverse consequences of progressive policy. Superficial cognition about most matters of significant import, as the progressive personality relies on the "feel" of issues rather than truly understanding them. Obsession with "fairness" or "social justice" as opposed to what actually works.
Sexual dysfunction: Significant anxiety about sexual matters, manifested as:
a. Obsession with sexual and gender roles.
b. Passionate celebration of nontraditional sex roles and preferences.
c. The compulsion to define individuals by their "sexual preference" and to design social policy as if all individuals share the obsession.
d. An inordinate interest in preserving inappropriate, lewd, perverse, or antisocial forms of sexual expression.
e. Fascination with immature or deviant expressions of sexuality; reduction of human sexuality to animal sexuality.
f. The projected belief that the contradictory beliefs are a result of fear (e.g. "homophobia".
e. Obsession with contraception and abortion ("reproductive freedom").
Replacement of patriotism with matriotism: Unwillingness to defend country when attacked or threatened, allied with inability to name or recognize evil and General devaluation of the masculine virtues.
Cultural and moral relativism: The fervent belief that all cultures are beautiful except one's own, and that it is immoral to judge another's morality unless they are conservative.

Davo17 · ‎03-24-2009

making non full auto weapons illegal will not stop the problem where it exists...which is with the drug trade and psych pts.

besides its taking a right...to then be reserved for the elite.

if we cut freedom of speech and religion...maybe violent deaths would drop...should we do that too?

DSM-IV 301.95 Progressive Personality Disorder
A. A pervasive pattern of progressive political and inter-personal thought and action, rooted in discredited leftist (neo-Marxist) beliefs, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following (individual must be at least 18 years of age to qualify for the diagnosis of Progressive Personality Disorder, as many of the criteria are age-appropriate for adolescents). This disorder often coexists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Utopian thinking, e.g. a delusional belief that there exist simple, linear, side effect-free solutions to all social problems.
Lack of historical knowledge and perspective, and repression of personal memories dissonant with this belief system. e.g., the national mood post 9-11, including that of PPD patients, is suppressed in order to avoid conflict with subsequent reversal of beliefs as the PPD delusions were reinstated - hence the downplaying of terrorism as a threat and the obsessive concern for the "rghts" of temporarily feared and hated terrorists. (Note to clinician: please differentiate between mere historical ignorance, e.g., a doctorate in history from an elite university, vs. neurotic or psychotic delusions necessary to sustain these beliefs. )
Anthroplastic delusion, e.g. The delusion that behavioral conditioning performed by the government or some other collective will cure all behavioral and social problems, rooted in denial of fixed human nature. Implicit in this delusion is the idea that human beings are infinitely malleable and subject to behavioral manipulation leading to perfect control and predictability. Free will, personal conscience, and objective morality are denied, devalued or denigrated.
Anti-theistic rebellion: An emotional antagonism to the Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in an abnormal persistence of adolescent rebellion (may also be related to the need to avoid counter-arguments that would question utopian, anthroplastic ideation). This behavior ranges from a mere antagonism to Christianity to a hatred of all forms of religion. The rejection of religion leads to a deep longing for a substitute religion, or in extreme cases, a messiah. The more Western a religion is, the more it is despised. Thus, these patients may openly accept more primitive pantheistic, neo-pagan, or animist belief systems, such as Wicca or fraudulent "new age" philosophies, e.g., Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc.
Animist delusion: The belief that mankind is evil and nature is benign. The incidence of this symptom is inversely related to practical knowledge and experience of nature. Collective self-hatred is a feature in this area, paradoxically existing side by side with egomaniacal omniscience, e.g., ability to accurately predict climate 100 years into the future. Typical thinking includes the self-hating belief that mankind is a cancer on earth and that the planet (subjectively felt as a "feeling being") will "retaliate." The animist delusion includes considerable cognitive dissonance, since the typical Progressive Personality is a believer in natural selection, which has resulted in untold suffering and cruelty, mitigated only by mankind's presence.
a. For example, the belief that an eagle egg or four-toed salamander is entitled to more legal protection than a human baby.
Environmental spasm: Chaotic, unreasonable, or incoherent episodes of manic activity on behalf of the environment or "mother nature." The delusional nature of this activity is evidenced by misanthropic attacks on works of man, and also by a manic focus on visible or totemic biological objects of little rational value. The patient is typically obsessed only with cute or cuddly creatures, often a displacement of the nurturing urge (often unfulfilled due to abortion).
Control obsession: A tendency to strive for excessive control over others through state intrusion. A contemptuous projection of unconscious envy which is subjectively experienced as "compassion." Through the magic of this unconscious mechanism, PPD patients typically want the state to appropriate your wealth while imagining themselves to be generous and "compassionate." Use of state coercion often substitutes for true acts of generosity; a low rate of charitable giving is often present.
Racist/feminist hypocrisy: Passionate advocacy of government-enforced discrimination based on sex or race, with aggressively proclaimed opposition to policies which are "racist" or "sexist." Obsessive conformity of thought within a racially diverse population. For example, a PPD patient might favor seating a racist on the Supreme Court, so long as the person is of the "correct" race. Often the cognitive dissonance normally associated with such beliefs is rationalized by the delusion that the "oppressed" cannot themselves be racist.
Overemotional perception: Excessive concern with how a social action "looks" or "feels," to the exclusion of actual resulting benefits or harm; in particular, any effects beyond the immediate. Resistance to, and denial of, objective evidence proving the adverse consequences of progressive policy. Superficial cognition about most matters of significant import, as the progressive personality relies on the "feel" of issues rather than truly understanding them. Obsession with "fairness" or "social justice" as opposed to what actually works.
Sexual dysfunction: Significant anxiety about sexual matters, manifested as:
a. Obsession with sexual and gender roles.
b. Passionate celebration of nontraditional sex roles and preferences.
c. The compulsion to define individuals by their "sexual preference" and to design social policy as if all individuals share the obsession.
d. An inordinate interest in preserving inappropriate, lewd, perverse, or antisocial forms of sexual expression.
e. Fascination with immature or deviant expressions of sexuality; reduction of human sexuality to animal sexuality.
f. The projected belief that the contradictory beliefs are a result of fear (e.g. "homophobia".
e. Obsession with contraception and abortion ("reproductive freedom").
Replacement of patriotism with matriotism: Unwillingness to defend country when attacked or threatened, allied with inability to name or recognize evil and General devaluation of the masculine virtues.
Cultural and moral relativism: The fervent belief that all cultures are beautiful except one's own, and that it is immoral to judge another's morality unless they are conservative.

Davo17 · ‎03-24-2009

gtrjones wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
gtrjones wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
gtrjones wrote:
So she carried illegally for years, then realized that was a felony, so left her gun in her car. And that's why her parents died? What's the point again? Why didn't she just go get a CHL?
where did you get thaqt? some of the libs here seem thuggish...as the first thing they assume is the victim is to blame. classy.

since the vid may have confused you what with both words AND pictures lemme explain. i cant draw you a picture though...
its texas and concealed and open carry are very common. its liberal areas that restrict guns.
guess where the kind of nut who wants to kill large amounts of people tends to target? places where he know nobody can stop him. these guys are about body counts you idiot.

im a paramedic...even with a single shooter when someone calls 911 we you are looking at 10 plus minutes before cops have staged, set a perimeter, and started to move towards the shooter.

thats 10 minutes with an unopposed nut shooting every which way.

the way these guys go out is often suicide, often after being confronted, or being cut down when others WITH GUNS finally get there. guns are needed to counter men with guns if u didnt get the memo.

I actually watched the video. She talked about how someone gave her a gun when she was 17 (edit - sorry, watched the video again, she got the gun from a friend, when she was 21), and she carried it in her purse. But then she realized that carrying w/o a permit was a felony, and so she left the gun in her car. That's why she didn't have her gun with her that day.
Did you even watch the video?
She admitted that she carried illegally, and then instead of actually getting a CHL, she just left the gun in her car.

The shooting occured at a restaurant, which was not 'restricting guns'... And if she's really advocating for guns stopping guns, why didn't she have a CHL and her own gun, in her own purse?
she carried legally, and when a local place banned that, she left her gun to comply. nothinh illegal.
You are thoroughly wrong. Both her testimony in the video, and the wiki article on the Luby's shooting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre) indicate that she did not have a current CHL, and not that the restaurant restricted guns...

"She later expressed regret about deciding to leave her gun in her car lest she risk possibly running afoul of the state's concealed weapons laws;..."

as i understood it, her carry permit was for another county where it was allowed.

its minutae though...the point is that she was not able to defend herself because of feelgood liberal bs gun laws.

DSM-IV 301.95 Progressive Personality Disorder
A. A pervasive pattern of progressive political and inter-personal thought and action, rooted in discredited leftist (neo-Marxist) beliefs, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following (individual must be at least 18 years of age to qualify for the diagnosis of Progressive Personality Disorder, as many of the criteria are age-appropriate for adolescents). This disorder often coexists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Utopian thinking, e.g. a delusional belief that there exist simple, linear, side effect-free solutions to all social problems.
Lack of historical knowledge and perspective, and repression of personal memories dissonant with this belief system. e.g., the national mood post 9-11, including that of PPD patients, is suppressed in order to avoid conflict with subsequent reversal of beliefs as the PPD delusions were reinstated - hence the downplaying of terrorism as a threat and the obsessive concern for the "rghts" of temporarily feared and hated terrorists. (Note to clinician: please differentiate between mere historical ignorance, e.g., a doctorate in history from an elite university, vs. neurotic or psychotic delusions necessary to sustain these beliefs. )
Anthroplastic delusion, e.g. The delusion that behavioral conditioning performed by the government or some other collective will cure all behavioral and social problems, rooted in denial of fixed human nature. Implicit in this delusion is the idea that human beings are infinitely malleable and subject to behavioral manipulation leading to perfect control and predictability. Free will, personal conscience, and objective morality are denied, devalued or denigrated.
Anti-theistic rebellion: An emotional antagonism to the Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in an abnormal persistence of adolescent rebellion (may also be related to the need to avoid counter-arguments that would question utopian, anthroplastic ideation). This behavior ranges from a mere antagonism to Christianity to a hatred of all forms of religion. The rejection of religion leads to a deep longing for a substitute religion, or in extreme cases, a messiah. The more Western a religion is, the more it is despised. Thus, these patients may openly accept more primitive pantheistic, neo-pagan, or animist belief systems, such as Wicca or fraudulent "new age" philosophies, e.g., Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc.
Animist delusion: The belief that mankind is evil and nature is benign. The incidence of this symptom is inversely related to practical knowledge and experience of nature. Collective self-hatred is a feature in this area, paradoxically existing side by side with egomaniacal omniscience, e.g., ability to accurately predict climate 100 years into the future. Typical thinking includes the self-hating belief that mankind is a cancer on earth and that the planet (subjectively felt as a "feeling being") will "retaliate." The animist delusion includes considerable cognitive dissonance, since the typical Progressive Personality is a believer in natural selection, which has resulted in untold suffering and cruelty, mitigated only by mankind's presence.
a. For example, the belief that an eagle egg or four-toed salamander is entitled to more legal protection than a human baby.
Environmental spasm: Chaotic, unreasonable, or incoherent episodes of manic activity on behalf of the environment or "mother nature." The delusional nature of this activity is evidenced by misanthropic attacks on works of man, and also by a manic focus on visible or totemic biological objects of little rational value. The patient is typically obsessed only with cute or cuddly creatures, often a displacement of the nurturing urge (often unfulfilled due to abortion).
Control obsession: A tendency to strive for excessive control over others through state intrusion. A contemptuous projection of unconscious envy which is subjectively experienced as "compassion." Through the magic of this unconscious mechanism, PPD patients typically want the state to appropriate your wealth while imagining themselves to be generous and "compassionate." Use of state coercion often substitutes for true acts of generosity; a low rate of charitable giving is often present.
Racist/feminist hypocrisy: Passionate advocacy of government-enforced discrimination based on sex or race, with aggressively proclaimed opposition to policies which are "racist" or "sexist." Obsessive conformity of thought within a racially diverse population. For example, a PPD patient might favor seating a racist on the Supreme Court, so long as the person is of the "correct" race. Often the cognitive dissonance normally associated with such beliefs is rationalized by the delusion that the "oppressed" cannot themselves be racist.
Overemotional perception: Excessive concern with how a social action "looks" or "feels," to the exclusion of actual resulting benefits or harm; in particular, any effects beyond the immediate. Resistance to, and denial of, objective evidence proving the adverse consequences of progressive policy. Superficial cognition about most matters of significant import, as the progressive personality relies on the "feel" of issues rather than truly understanding them. Obsession with "fairness" or "social justice" as opposed to what actually works.
Sexual dysfunction: Significant anxiety about sexual matters, manifested as:
a. Obsession with sexual and gender roles.
b. Passionate celebration of nontraditional sex roles and preferences.
c. The compulsion to define individuals by their "sexual preference" and to design social policy as if all individuals share the obsession.
d. An inordinate interest in preserving inappropriate, lewd, perverse, or antisocial forms of sexual expression.
e. Fascination with immature or deviant expressions of sexuality; reduction of human sexuality to animal sexuality.
f. The projected belief that the contradictory beliefs are a result of fear (e.g. "homophobia".
e. Obsession with contraception and abortion ("reproductive freedom").
Replacement of patriotism with matriotism: Unwillingness to defend country when attacked or threatened, allied with inability to name or recognize evil and General devaluation of the masculine virtues.
Cultural and moral relativism: The fervent belief that all cultures are beautiful except one's own, and that it is immoral to judge another's morality unless they are conservative.

guido61 · ‎12-09-2001

Davo17 wrote:
making non full auto weapons illegal will not stop the problem where it exists...which is with the drug trade and psych pts.

Prior to the the 1934 ban, the tommy gun was the gun of choice for gangsters. After the ban, they stopped using it and there have only been two deaths caused by that gun since.

The "bad guys will use the guns anyway" theory is bogus. Bad guys are usually three things: Cheap, Lazy and Reckless. That's one reason they decide to become bad guys in the first place. They'll use whatever gun is the easiest and cheapest to get ahold of. And don't have much concern for how much carnage it is capable of causing. They'll just use it and whatever-happens is whatever-happens.

Limit their easy access to hyper-dangerous guns and they'll use something else. The 1934 full-auto weapon ban PROVED that.

--David

FOR SALE: DBX Driverack PX; DBX 231 EQ; Behringer Racktuner; Rane SAC 22 crossover; Alesis D4 drum module; Line 6 Pod Pro rackmount.

Band website: http://www.JumpStartYourParty.com
http://www.gigmasters.com/Rock/Jump-Start/

Stage gear: Korg Kronos, Yamaha Motif, M-Audio Venom, Neo Ventilator, Digitech GSP-1101, Fender Stratocaster, Takamine Eg544SC, Samson SM10 line mixer, Alesis Picoverb, Samson Airline 77 Wireless, APC Smart-UPS SC 450VA

gspointer · ‎11-14-2001

^ guido

Holy **bleep** that is a simplistic answer. Does your history of the us fit on one or 2 pages?
1934 Bonnie&Clyde died, Dillinger died, Baby face Nelson died, Machine gun Kelly incarcerated in 1933, as well as prohibition ending. Also the 2 killings tracked since are "registered" items. Try to find info on the illegal, unregistered ones.

Dillybar 13 july 2008.
"I do not expect you to lift one of your lazy fingers to find the proof that I am right."

guido61 · ‎12-09-2001

gspointer wrote:
^ guido

Holy **bleep** that is a simplistic answer. Does your history of the us fit on one or 2 pages?
1934 Bonnie&Clyde died, Dillinger died, Baby face Nelson died, Machine gun Kelly incarcerated in 1933, as well as prohibition ending. Also the 2 killings tracked since are "registered" items. Try to find info on the illegal, unregistered ones.

Actually, I just borrowed that figure from Telecrusier who posted it earlier. And since I'm dealing with gun-fans who most often argue with simplistic bumper-sticker soundbites like "if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns", replying in kind seemed pretty appropriate. It's not like Davo17 is a fountain of sourced, researched debate.

But the facts are the facts: those guns were outlawed and it didn't result in "only the outlaws" using them or crime rates increasing. In fact, the outlaws, rather than deal with the difficultly in securing those guns, found other weapons to use. It's really absurd to assume that anything more than a small handful of really determined bad guys with specific needs are going to make sure they have these sorts of weapons and REALLY absurd to think that very many of the guys who are suddenly overcome with the desire to go shoot up the local shopping mall are going to do so.

These are largely impulse crimes. They grab what is handy and fashion their crime around the available weaponry. Limit the severity of the weapons they have easy access to and you limit the severity of the crimes they commit.

It's not only common sense, but history has proven it to be correct.

--David

FOR SALE: DBX Driverack PX; DBX 231 EQ; Behringer Racktuner; Rane SAC 22 crossover; Alesis D4 drum module; Line 6 Pod Pro rackmount.

Band website: http://www.JumpStartYourParty.com
http://www.gigmasters.com/Rock/Jump-Start/

Stage gear: Korg Kronos, Yamaha Motif, M-Audio Venom, Neo Ventilator, Digitech GSP-1101, Fender Stratocaster, Takamine Eg544SC, Samson SM10 line mixer, Alesis Picoverb, Samson Airline 77 Wireless, APC Smart-UPS SC 450VA

Big_Conig · ‎01-22-2013

Just make all guns illegal. What the **bleep**, it's obvious it's way to great a responsibility for Americans.

Spike Li · ‎02-28-2009

Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
Spike Li wrote:
So gun control is a bad thing because mass shootings are simple part of everyday life?
Got it.
oh so close! you almost had it.
gun control is bad because it restricts others while not stoppong the problem.
most of these shooters are mentally unstable but have nothing preventing them from making these purchases quietly before hand... or they are already violent criminals who dont follow laws by definition.
so laws the dont target the problem are ineffective band aids that make some of us feel better without actually solving anything.
bad laws are not the solution.
ergo, sit on a tack.

Sit on a tack? Id rather not...
Havent a lot of these mass shootings occurred with legally obtained firearms and ammunition?
Dont you think that adding more guns so people can "protect themselves" is actually the bandaid solution? Im pretty sure that the US doesnt have a monopoly on mentally unstable people (although I could be wrong) but it does seem to have a monopoly on gun crime and mass shootings... why is that? Is it because not enough "good guys" have guns or is it something else?
So let me get this right: according to the lady in the video- its not the gunmans fault for going on a rampage, its not societies obsession with and proliferation of guns, its not that guns are really common and super easy to get a hold of, laws that dont allow everyone to carry a gun on them all the time are to blame for the death of her parents???

Oh and as someone else mentioned- if the cops watched the gunman kill her mother, why didnt they do anything? Surely they were armed??

the shootings with legally purchased firearms are mostly nuts, with no record before the attack. no backround check will catch a first timer. and again, the rest are thugs who wont use legal channels anyway...years of research shows that.

no band aid...the guns are already out there. too many to ever make confiscation practical.

besides if you account for psych pts and criminals...the us has the same murder rate as holland. so take a deep breath and look at where the problem is instead of mindlessly spouting off ideas that end in the restrifctions of honest americans rights.

i explained why the cops on scene didnt do anything...a few posts up. like i said, im a paramedic and have seen this a hundred times...cops dont just rush in to anything when guns are involved. they set up a perimeter and waqit for backup before they do anything. they were likely survailing when hey saw that murder.

its simple math...the way to counter a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. t
Being a paramedic- dont you believe that prevention is better than a cure?
yes...to the extent that prevention does not infringe others rights.
thats besides the pt. its a flawed premise to assume this will stop the types of violence its acccused of causing without evidence to back that up. scientific studies. policy papers...the anti,s havent mentioned them because they dont support their argument.

What rights are you talking about exactly? The right of anyone to own any kind of weapon they please? The right to live in a society where anyone whos having a bad day can just grab their mothers AR15 and kill a bunch of children? How many crimes are commited with tommy guns these days?

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NOS68 · ‎06-04-2006

Spike Li wrote:
What rights are you talking about exactly? The right of anyone to own any kind of weapon they please? The right to live in a society where anyone whos having a bad day can just grab their mothers AR15 and kill a bunch of children? How many crimes are commited with tommy guns these days?

And how many are commited with AR15's, hint it's a miniscule amount.

Last Updated: 10/24/2010

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"Assault Weapons"

Summary
Military-style semi-automatic firearms (so-called assault weapons) do not differ materially from non-military style semi-automatic firearms (one bullet is fired for each pull of the trigger) and are no more powerful than other semi-automatic weapons. Further, a bullet fired from a semi-automatic weapon is no more powerful than one of the same caliber fired from a corresponding non-semi-automatic handgun, rifle, or shotgun. In fact most assault weapons are less powerful than hunting rifles. For example, the AR-15 (a semi-automatic version of the U.S. military's rifle, M-16), is a .223 caliber rifle. Rifles of this caliber, when used for hunting, are generally used on small game rather than deer. A smaller caliber bullet is more likely to wound the animal (and allow it to escape and suffer a slow death) than the more powerful .24 to .30 caliber bullets normally used in deer hunting rifles (see this hunting rifle ammunition chart).
Assault weapons are not the weapons of choice among drug dealers, gang members or criminals in general. Assault weapons are used in about one-fifth of one percent (.20%) of all violent crimes and about one percent in gun crimes. It is estimated that from one to seven percent of all homicides are committed with assault weapons (rifles of any type are involved in three to four percent of all homicides). However a higher percentage are used in police homicides, roughly ten percent. (There has been no consistent trend in this rate from 1978 through 1996.) Between 1992 and 1996 less than 4% of mass murders, committed with guns, involved assault weapons. (Our deadliest mass murders have either involved arson or bombs.)
There are close to 4 million assault weapons in the U.S., which amounts to roughly 1.7% of the total gun stock.
If assault weapons are so rarely used in crime, why all the hoopla when certain military-style-semi-automatic weapons were banned by the Crime Control Act of 1994? A Washington Post editorial (September 15, 1994) summed it up best:
No one should have any illusions about what was accomplished (by the ban). Assault weapons play a part in only a small percentage of crime. The provision is mainly symbolic; its virtue will be if it turns out to be, as hoped, a stepping stone to broader gun control.

Definitions
A genuine assault weapon, as opposed to a legal definition, is a hand-held, selective fire weapon, which means it's capable of firing in either an automatic or a semiautomatic mode depending on the position of a selector switch. These kinds of weapons are heavily regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934 and are further regulated in some states. (See machine guns.)
However, current "assault weapon" legislation defines certain semi-automatic weapons as "assault weapons." A semi-automatic weapon is one that fires a round with each pull of the trigger, versus an automatic weapon which continues to shoot until the trigger is released or the ammunition supply is exhausted. These kinds of "assault weapons" are sometimes referred to as military-style semi-automatic weapons.
An example of assault weapon legislation is the Federal 1994 Crime Bill. The bill in part outlaws new civilian manufacture of certain semi-automatic assault weapons. It also prohibits new civilian manufacture of "large capacity ammunition feeding devices" declared certain weapons as assault weapons, and states a semi-automatic rifleis an assault weapon if it can accept a detachable magazine and has two or more of the following:
A folding or telescoping stock
A pistol grip
A bayonet mount
A flash suppressor, or threads to attach one
A grenade launcher.
(For the Crime Bill's definition of assault shotguns and pistols, a list of assault weapons, and further legal issues see Crime Bill FAQ.)
[The 1994 Crime Bill expired on September 13, 2004. See Semiautomatic Assault Weapon (SAW) Ban QUESTIONS & ANSWERSfrom the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.]
Assault Weapons: The Weapons of Choice?
The following summary of police statistical surveys is excerpted from Kopel, David B, Rational Basis Analysis of "Assault Weapon" Prohibition. (Kopel's paper contains the citations for these surveys and lists a few more studies as well.)
California. In 1990, "assault weapons" comprised thirty-six of the 963 firearms involved in homicide or aggravated assault and analyzed by police crime laboratories, according to a report prepared by the California Department of Justice, and based on data from police firearms laboratories throughout the state. The report concluded that "assault weapons play a very small role in assault and homicide firearm cases." Of the 1,979 guns seized from California narcotics dealers in 1990, fifty-eight were "assault weapons."

Chicago. From 1985 through 1989, only one homicide was perpetrated with a military caliber rifle. Of the 17,144 guns seized by the Chicago police in 1989, 175 were "military style weapons."

Florida. Florida Department of Law Enforcement Uniform Crime Reports for 1989 indicate that rifles of all types accounted for 2.6% of the weapons used in Florida homicides. The Florida Assault Weapons Commission found that "assault weapons" were used in 17 of 7,500 gun crimes for the years 1986-1989.

Los Angeles. Of the more than 4,000 guns seized by police during one year, only about 3% were "assault weapons."

Maryland. In 1989-90, there was only one death involving a "semiautomatic assault rifle" in all twenty-four counties of the State of Maryland.

Massachusetts. Of 161 fatal shootings in Massachusetts in 1988, three involved "semiautomatic assault rifles." From 1985 to 1991, the guns were involved in 0.7% of all shootings.

Miami. The Miami police seized 18,702 firearms from January 1, 1989 to December 31, 1993. Of these, 3.13% were "assault weapons."

New Jersey. According to the Deputy Chief Joseph Constance of the Trenton New Jersey Police Department, in 1989, there was not a single murder involving any rifle, much less a "semiautomatic assault rifle," in the State of New Jersey. No person in New Jersey was killed with an "assault weapon" in 1988. Nevertheless, in 1990 the New Jersey legislature enacted an "assault weapon" ban that included low-power .22 rifles, and even BB guns. Based on the legislature's broad definition of "assault weapons," in 1991, such guns were used in five of 410 murders in New Jersey; in forty-seven of 22,728 armed robberies; and in twenty-three of 23,720 aggravated assaults committed in New Jersey.

New York City. Of 12,138 crime guns seized by New York City police in 1988, eighty were "assault-type" firearms.

New York State. Semiautomatic "assault rifles" were used in twenty of the 2,394 murders in New York State in 1992.

San Diego. Of the 3,000 firearms seized by the San Diego police in 1988-90, nine were "assault weapons" under the California definition.

San Francisco. Only 2.2% of the firearms confiscated in 1988 were military-style semiautomatics.

Virginia. Of the 1,171 weapons analyzed in state forensics laboratories in 1992, 3.3% were "assault weapons."

National statistics. Less than four percent of all homicides in the United States involve any type of rifle. No more than .8% of homicides are perpetrated with rifles using military calibers. (And not all rifles using such calibers are usually considered "assault weapons.") Overall, the number of persons killed with rifles of any type in 1990 was lower than the number in any year in the 1980s.
Gary Kleck, in Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control (Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York 1997), summarizes the findings of forty-seven such studies, indicating that less than 2% of crime guns were assault weapons (the median was about 1.8%). According to Bureau of Justice Statistics, (Criminal Victimization in the United States, 1993, May 1996) offenders were armed with a firearm in 10% of all violent crimes. That would mean less than .20% (one-fifth of one percent or 1 in 500) of violent crime offenders used an assault weapon(1.8% X 10% = .18%).
The Police and Assault Weapons
According to Roth and Koper (Roth), (Impact Evaluation of the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act of 1994, May 1996), "assault weapons are estimated to be involved in 1 to 7 percent of gun homicides". Their study further reports, "In sum, police officers are rarely murdered with assault weapons. Yet the fraction of police gun murders perpetrated with assault weapons is higher than that for civilian gun murders. Assault weapons accounted for about 10% of police gun murders from 1992 through May of 1996 when considering only those cases for which the gun make could be ascertained."
(From 1982 to 1993, of the 687 officers who were killed by firearms other than their own guns, more were killed by .38 caliber revolvers than by any other firearm. Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics, Guns Used in Crime, July 1995, p. 5. [PDF])
The police view of assault weapons.
Assault Weapons and Mass Shootings
In "Appendix A" Roth et. al found, "contrary to our expectations, only 2 -- 3.8 percent - of the 52 mass murders we gleaned from the Nexis search [from Jan. 1992 through May 1996] unambiguously involved assault weapons. This is about the same percentage as for other murders... media accounts lend some tenuous support to the notion that assault weapons are more deadly than other weapons in mass murder events, as measured by victims per incident. However in Footnote 61 Roth states: "If, for instance, the substituted long guns were .22 caliber, rimfire (i.e., low velocity) rifles (and in addition did not accept large-capacity magazines), then a substitution effect [as a result of the assault weapons ban] would be less likely to have demonstrably negative consequences. If, on the other hand, offenders substituted shotguns for assault weapons, there could be negative consequences for gun violence mortality. "
Gary Kleck in Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control (Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York, 1997) after examining the FBI's Supplementary Homicide Reportsfor the years 1976 to 1992, reports "the rate of killings with four or more victims was higher in 1976-1982, prior to the popularity of assault weapons, than in 1983-1992. Regardless of the numerical cutoff defining mass shootings, there was no increase in such incidents associated with the increased popularity of assault weapons after 1984".
Dr. Kleck also states that "Oddly enough, mass killings are actually less likely to involve the use of guns of any kind than homicides involving small numbers of victims. For all murders and non negligent manslaughters covered in Supplementary Homicide Reports(about 90% of all U.S. killings) for the period 1976 to 1992, only 48.3% of victims killed in incidents with four or more victims were killed with guns, compared to 62.3% of those killed in incidents with three or fewer victims. This is mainly due to the large share of mass killings committed with arson, which is rarely involved in ordinary homicides."
Incidentally, there are an estimated 4 million assault rifles in the U.S., which amounts to roughly 1.7% of the total gun stock. (Institute for Research on Small Arms in International Security, Assault Rifle Fact Sheet #2, 1989)
Assault Weapons Easily Converted to Full-auto?
Not according to LAPD Detective Jimmy Trahin, testifying before the California State Assembly (Feb. 13,1989):
... over 4,000 guns that came into the custody of our unit last year, less than 120 would be classified as this military-type weapon. Of those, only ten or less than ten were actually illegally converted to fully-automatic machine gun stocks. Why? Because these military style assault weapons of today are not easily and readily convertible without extensive knowledge of modifications to the weapon and/or substitution of available parts. (source)
These miliatry style assault weapons of today are not easily and readily convertible without extensive knowledge and modifications to the weapon and/or substitution of available parts.
Now, in my 12 years within the unit, considering the enormous amount of firearms that we have taken into custody, and that's over fifty-thousand, I would say, and these inlcuded ones from the hardcore gangs, and from the drug dealers, our unit has never, ever, had one AK-47 converted, one Ruger Mini-14 converted, an H&K 91, 93 never converted, an AR-180 never converted. So this media blitz of many of these assault weapons, or supposedly military style weapons are being converted to full automatic is not true. (source) (additional source)
For Further Reading
Kopel, David B., Rational Basis Analysis of "Assault Weapon" Prohibition, 20 J. of Contemp. L. 381-417.(1994)
_____, The Assault Weapon Panic (242K), Independence Issue Paper No. 12-91, Independence Institute.
_____, Assault Ban Chicanery, originally printed in the Washington Times, May 5, 1994, Thursday, p. A18.
_____, Are so-called "Assault Weapons" a Threat to Police Officers?, originally printed in the Sept./Oct. 1997 of The Law Enforcement Trainer, the official publication of the American Society for Law Enforcement Training.
Tonso, William R., Shooting Blind, Reason, June, 2000.
For Viewing
"The Truth About Semi-Auto Firearms."

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