Re: Doubling down on ultrasound...

GTRMAN · ‎01-07-2002

No. I've not moved the goal posts one iota. There is no reason for ultrasound being medically necessary in cases of drug-induced abortions in the first trimester. Your ilk has failed to produce any scientific documentation from a medical journal or endorsement from any medical association. This is purely a political move.

nedezero1 wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
Why are you refusing to show us a medical journal article or medical association guidelines relating how an ultrasound is necessary or warranted in cases such as described in the OP?
nedezero1 wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
Wow. You didn't understand that I was talking about the procedure discussed in the OP? WTF?

nedezero1 wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
Okay, Einstein. How about providing a link to any medical journal article or medical association guidelines outlining hownsuch a procedure is necessary or recommended in these cases.
nedezero1 wrote:
mdwagner73 wrote:
nedezero1 wrote:
Why are lefties so afraid of arming women with as much information as possible prior to a possibly life altering decision.
Why are so-called conservatives so willing to force medically unnecessary procedures and have the government intervene in something that should be between a doctor and patient?
Gee can you think of any other medical procedure that requires certain testing and information gathering beforehand? I can think of tons.
Here's a good one....lap bands or other procedures to shrink stomach size for the purposes of weight loss.
It's elective, and the decision is between the doctor and the patient. But there's a bunch of physical and mental analysis that is reuired before hand.
A woman has a right to an abortion, that is not in question.
I just fall on the side of trying to prevent it if possible. You may feel otherwise.
And yes that includes contraception education etc.

Is Mayo clinic good enough?
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/gastric-bypass-surgery/WT00031
A team of health professionals — usually including a doctor, dietitian, psychologist and surgeon — evaluate whether gastric bypass or other weight-loss surgery is appropriate for you. This evaluation generally determines if the health benefits of the surgery outweigh the potentially serious risks. The evaluation also determines if you're psychologically and medically ready to undergo the procedure.

(not that I really give shit whether you believe me or not....I was bored)

Maybe becasue you didn't specify and you were responding to my example.
None the less, if these laws to ensure women are armed with all the information beforehand are passed then we will have guidelines won't we?
Why are you afraid of educating women?
Why are you so anxious to see abortions happen?

nedezero1 wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
Wow. You didn't understand that I was talking about the procedure discussed in the OP? WTF?

nedezero1 wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
Okay, Einstein. How about providing a link to any medical journal article or medical association guidelines outlining hownsuch a procedure is necessary or recommended in these cases.
nedezero1 wrote:
mdwagner73 wrote:
nedezero1 wrote:
Why are lefties so afraid of arming women with as much information as possible prior to a possibly life altering decision.
Why are so-called conservatives so willing to force medically unnecessary procedures and have the government intervene in something that should be between a doctor and patient?
Gee can you think of any other medical procedure that requires certain testing and information gathering beforehand? I can think of tons.
Here's a good one....lap bands or other procedures to shrink stomach size for the purposes of weight loss.
It's elective, and the decision is between the doctor and the patient. But there's a bunch of physical and mental analysis that is reuired before hand.
A woman has a right to an abortion, that is not in question.
I just fall on the side of trying to prevent it if possible. You may feel otherwise.
And yes that includes contraception education etc.

Is Mayo clinic good enough?
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/gastric-bypass-surgery/WT00031
A team of health professionals — usually including a doctor, dietitian, psychologist and surgeon — evaluate whether gastric bypass or other weight-loss surgery is appropriate for you. This evaluation generally determines if the health benefits of the surgery outweigh the potentially serious risks. The evaluation also determines if you're psychologically and medically ready to undergo the procedure.

(not that I really give shit whether you believe me or not....I was bored)

Maybe becasue you didn't specify and you were responding to my example.
None the less, if these laws to ensure women are armed with all the information beforehand are passed then we will have guidelines won't we?
Why are you afraid of educating women?
Why are you so anxious to see abortions happen?

Moving goal-posts okay....

Just FYI, even the anti-ultrasound crowd acknowledges that pre-abortion ultrasounds are already in practice for several medical reasons. It's just the state requiring them that is the issue.

iam pridem, ex quo suffragia nulli / uendimus, effudit curas; nam qui dabat olim / imperium, fasces, legiones, omnia, nunc se / continet atque duas tantum res anxius optat, / panem et circenses.
-Juvenal

Belva · ‎09-21-2008

A bit of info for you idiots. My father taught a few doctors to fly. After calling one, this doctor informed my father that a medically unnecessary procedure required by the gov't is something a doctor can legally refuse to do. So if a woman wants an abortion and the doctor disagrees with the law, it doesn't get done. Your results will vary from state to state. But the hypocratic oath carries a lot of weight.

They say dogs can smell fear. People must have fear coming outa their butts

pink freud · ‎08-23-2005

An aside: Maybe we should try to trim down the quote pyramids, eh? They are getting pretty big.

http://www.last.fm/user/pinkfreudHC

Used2BMarkoh · ‎06-02-2009

Belva wrote:
A bit of info for you idiots. My father taught a few doctors to fly. After calling one, this doctor informed my father that a medically unnecessary procedure required by the gov't is something a doctor can legally refuse to do. So if a woman wants an abortion and the doctor disagrees with the law, it doesn't get done. Your results will vary from state to state. But the hypocratic oath carries a lot of weight.

I wonder if you'll be singing this same song next time a medical professional refuses to participate in a medically unnecessary abortion?

Legislatures can write any law they want that doesn't violate the constitution (and even that doesn't matter much any more).

And man, there's nothing weirder than cold blooder killers trying to take some moral high ground. Just say it, willya: "I don't want some kid screwing up my life. Kill the thing" I guess it means there's some shred of conscience left in ya, trying to find some way to justify it.

I have noticed that those who deny God also deny their own humanity

Used2BMarkoh · ‎06-02-2009

Used2BMarkoh wrote:
And man, there's nothing weirder than cold blooder killers trying to take some moral high ground. Just say it, willya: "I don't want some kid screwing up my life. Kill the thing" I guess it means there's some shred of conscience left in ya, trying to find some way to justify it.

That's not directed at you in particular, Belva, just the general pro-abortion fraud trying to pretend he cares about women or something.

I have noticed that those who deny God also deny their own humanity

mdwagner73 · ‎03-02-2009

John Ellis wrote:
mdwagner73 wrote:
nedezero1 wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
Okay, Einstein. How about providing a link to any medical journal article or medical association guidelines outlining hownsuch a procedure is necessary or recommended in these cases.
nedezero1 wrote:
mdwagner73 wrote:
nedezero1 wrote:
Why are lefties so afraid of arming women with as much information as possible prior to a possibly life altering decision.
Why are so-called conservatives so willing to force medically unnecessary procedures and have the government intervene in something that should be between a doctor and patient?
Gee can you think of any other medical procedure that requires certain testing and information gathering beforehand? I can think of tons.
Here's a good one....lap bands or other procedures to shrink stomach size for the purposes of weight loss.
It's elective, and the decision is between the doctor and the patient. But there's a bunch of physical and mental analysis that is reuired before hand.
A woman has a right to an abortion, that is not in question.
I just fall on the side of trying to prevent it if possible. You may feel otherwise.
And yes that includes contraception education etc.

Is Mayo clinic good enough?
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/gastric-bypass-surgery/WT00031
A team of health professionals — usually including a doctor, dietitian, psychologist and surgeon — evaluate whether gastric bypass or other weight-loss surgery is appropriate for you. This evaluation generally determines if the health benefits of the surgery outweigh the potentially serious risks. The evaluation also determines if you're psychologically and medically ready to undergo the procedure.

(not that I really give shit whether you believe me or not....I was bored)
When did the Mayo Clinic become the government?
That wasn't the question, was it? idiot.

Actually, it was, dumbass.

Graeca · ‎01-18-2013

moonlightin wrote:
Mr.NiceGuy wrote:
Prospective abortion customers quite often change their minds when they see exactly what they thought they wanted to kill.
Works for me and Bill Clinton who said he wants abortion to be rare (among other things).
Sex education would be a better way to go.

And easier access to birth control, as well.

The GOP primarily wants to legislate THEIR idea of "morality", no matter who is affected.

mdwagner73 · ‎03-02-2009

Used2BMarkoh wrote:
Belva wrote:
A bit of info for you idiots. My father taught a few doctors to fly. After calling one, this doctor informed my father that a medically unnecessary procedure required by the gov't is something a doctor can legally refuse to do. So if a woman wants an abortion and the doctor disagrees with the law, it doesn't get done. Your results will vary from state to state. But the hypocratic oath carries a lot of weight.
I wonder if you'll be singing this same song next time a medical professional refuses to participate in a medically unnecessary abortion?
Legislatures can write any law they want that doesn't violate the constitution (and even that doesn't matter much any more).
And man, there's nothing weirder than cold blooder killers trying to take some moral high ground. Just say it, willya: "I don't want some kid screwing up my life. Kill the thing" I guess it means there's some shred of conscience left in ya, trying to find some way to justify it.

Most doctors don't perform abortions. Who's suggesting that doctors should be forced to perform medically unnecessary surgeries?

Legislatures can write any law they want, but that doesn't mean that people can't voice an opinion about the law and discuss whether or not the law is just.

Are you going to bother to voice your personal opinion on this law or are you just going to continue trolling?

Used2BMarkoh · ‎06-02-2009

mdwagner73 wrote:
Are you going to bother to voice your personal opinion on this law or are you just going to continue trolling?

I'd have to actually read the law and find out what I'm talking about. What fun would that be.

I deal with components sometimes. I fully realize that breaking an issue down to it's constituents is completely foreign to guys like you, but I can't help myself. It's just so useful in the real world.

I have noticed that those who deny God also deny their own humanity

mdwagner73 · ‎03-02-2009

Used2BMarkoh wrote:
mdwagner73 wrote:
Are you going to bother to voice your personal opinion on this law or are you just going to continue trolling?
I'd have to actually read the law and find out what I'm talking about. What fun would that be.
I deal with components sometimes. I fully realize that breaking an issue down to it's constituents is completely foreign to guys like you, but I can't help myself. It's just so useful in the real world.

So you're just going to keep trolling. Got it.

Davo17 · ‎03-24-2009

RogueGnome wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
The states get to make these choices, so go pound sand, libs.
No problem.
Then the state can pay for it. Let the farmers who elected these idiot two-faced small gov't no intrusion politicians pay for it with their subsidies.
Here's what the small government Indiana Republican farmers bilked the Federal Governmet out of between 1995 & 2011:
1 Corn Subsidies** 111,017 Indiana Farmers $6,085,807,389
2 Soybean Subsidies** 86,453 Indiana Farmers $2,082,045,767
3 Conservation Reserve Program 38,507 Indiana Farmers $643,000,232
4 Wheat Subsidies** 65,164 Indiana Farmers $366,945,462
5 Disaster Payments 27,852 Indiana Farmers $260,053,556
6 Dairy Program Subsidies 3,368 Indiana Farmers $77,268,561
7 Env. Quality Incentive Program 5,087 Indiana Farmers $59,413,525
8 Livestock Subsidies 16,329 Indiana Farmers $26,238,762
9 Tobacco Subsidies 8,653 Indiana Farmers $13,630,683
10 Wetlands Reserve Program 441 Indiana Farmers $11,087,882

Im fine with that, the govt should not be doing that either.

DSM-IV 301.95 Progressive Personality Disorder
A. A pervasive pattern of progressive political and inter-personal thought and action, rooted in discredited leftist (neo-Marxist) beliefs, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following (individual must be at least 18 years of age to qualify for the diagnosis of Progressive Personality Disorder, as many of the criteria are age-appropriate for adolescents). This disorder often coexists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Utopian thinking, e.g. a delusional belief that there exist simple, linear, side effect-free solutions to all social problems.
Lack of historical knowledge and perspective, and repression of personal memories dissonant with this belief system. e.g., the national mood post 9-11, including that of PPD patients, is suppressed in order to avoid conflict with subsequent reversal of beliefs as the PPD delusions were reinstated - hence the downplaying of terrorism as a threat and the obsessive concern for the "rghts" of temporarily feared and hated terrorists. (Note to clinician: please differentiate between mere historical ignorance, e.g., a doctorate in history from an elite university, vs. neurotic or psychotic delusions necessary to sustain these beliefs. )
Anthroplastic delusion, e.g. The delusion that behavioral conditioning performed by the government or some other collective will cure all behavioral and social problems, rooted in denial of fixed human nature. Implicit in this delusion is the idea that human beings are infinitely malleable and subject to behavioral manipulation leading to perfect control and predictability. Free will, personal conscience, and objective morality are denied, devalued or denigrated.
Anti-theistic rebellion: An emotional antagonism to the Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in an abnormal persistence of adolescent rebellion (may also be related to the need to avoid counter-arguments that would question utopian, anthroplastic ideation). This behavior ranges from a mere antagonism to Christianity to a hatred of all forms of religion. The rejection of religion leads to a deep longing for a substitute religion, or in extreme cases, a messiah. The more Western a religion is, the more it is despised. Thus, these patients may openly accept more primitive pantheistic, neo-pagan, or animist belief systems, such as Wicca or fraudulent "new age" philosophies, e.g., Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc.
Animist delusion: The belief that mankind is evil and nature is benign. The incidence of this symptom is inversely related to practical knowledge and experience of nature. Collective self-hatred is a feature in this area, paradoxically existing side by side with egomaniacal omniscience, e.g., ability to accurately predict climate 100 years into the future. Typical thinking includes the self-hating belief that mankind is a cancer on earth and that the planet (subjectively felt as a "feeling being") will "retaliate." The animist delusion includes considerable cognitive dissonance, since the typical Progressive Personality is a believer in natural selection, which has resulted in untold suffering and cruelty, mitigated only by mankind's presence.
a. For example, the belief that an eagle egg or four-toed salamander is entitled to more legal protection than a human baby.
Environmental spasm: Chaotic, unreasonable, or incoherent episodes of manic activity on behalf of the environment or "mother nature." The delusional nature of this activity is evidenced by misanthropic attacks on works of man, and also by a manic focus on visible or totemic biological objects of little rational value. The patient is typically obsessed only with cute or cuddly creatures, often a displacement of the nurturing urge (often unfulfilled due to abortion).
Control obsession: A tendency to strive for excessive control over others through state intrusion. A contemptuous projection of unconscious envy which is subjectively experienced as "compassion." Through the magic of this unconscious mechanism, PPD patients typically want the state to appropriate your wealth while imagining themselves to be generous and "compassionate." Use of state coercion often substitutes for true acts of generosity; a low rate of charitable giving is often present.
Racist/feminist hypocrisy: Passionate advocacy of government-enforced discrimination based on sex or race, with aggressively proclaimed opposition to policies which are "racist" or "sexist." Obsessive conformity of thought within a racially diverse population. For example, a PPD patient might favor seating a racist on the Supreme Court, so long as the person is of the "correct" race. Often the cognitive dissonance normally associated with such beliefs is rationalized by the delusion that the "oppressed" cannot themselves be racist.
Overemotional perception: Excessive concern with how a social action "looks" or "feels," to the exclusion of actual resulting benefits or harm; in particular, any effects beyond the immediate. Resistance to, and denial of, objective evidence proving the adverse consequences of progressive policy. Superficial cognition about most matters of significant import, as the progressive personality relies on the "feel" of issues rather than truly understanding them. Obsession with "fairness" or "social justice" as opposed to what actually works.
Sexual dysfunction: Significant anxiety about sexual matters, manifested as:
a. Obsession with sexual and gender roles.
b. Passionate celebration of nontraditional sex roles and preferences.
c. The compulsion to define individuals by their "sexual preference" and to design social policy as if all individuals share the obsession.
d. An inordinate interest in preserving inappropriate, lewd, perverse, or antisocial forms of sexual expression.
e. Fascination with immature or deviant expressions of sexuality; reduction of human sexuality to animal sexuality.
f. The projected belief that the contradictory beliefs are a result of fear (e.g. "homophobia".
e. Obsession with contraception and abortion ("reproductive freedom").
Replacement of patriotism with matriotism: Unwillingness to defend country when attacked or threatened, allied with inability to name or recognize evil and General devaluation of the masculine virtues.
Cultural and moral relativism: The fervent belief that all cultures are beautiful except one's own, and that it is immoral to judge another's morality unless they are conservative.

Davo17 · ‎03-24-2009

nedezero1 wrote:
Why are lefties so afraid of arming women with as much information as possible prior to a possibly life altering decision.

Excellent point.

DSM-IV 301.95 Progressive Personality Disorder
A. A pervasive pattern of progressive political and inter-personal thought and action, rooted in discredited leftist (neo-Marxist) beliefs, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following (individual must be at least 18 years of age to qualify for the diagnosis of Progressive Personality Disorder, as many of the criteria are age-appropriate for adolescents). This disorder often coexists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Utopian thinking, e.g. a delusional belief that there exist simple, linear, side effect-free solutions to all social problems.
Lack of historical knowledge and perspective, and repression of personal memories dissonant with this belief system. e.g., the national mood post 9-11, including that of PPD patients, is suppressed in order to avoid conflict with subsequent reversal of beliefs as the PPD delusions were reinstated - hence the downplaying of terrorism as a threat and the obsessive concern for the "rghts" of temporarily feared and hated terrorists. (Note to clinician: please differentiate between mere historical ignorance, e.g., a doctorate in history from an elite university, vs. neurotic or psychotic delusions necessary to sustain these beliefs. )
Anthroplastic delusion, e.g. The delusion that behavioral conditioning performed by the government or some other collective will cure all behavioral and social problems, rooted in denial of fixed human nature. Implicit in this delusion is the idea that human beings are infinitely malleable and subject to behavioral manipulation leading to perfect control and predictability. Free will, personal conscience, and objective morality are denied, devalued or denigrated.
Anti-theistic rebellion: An emotional antagonism to the Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in an abnormal persistence of adolescent rebellion (may also be related to the need to avoid counter-arguments that would question utopian, anthroplastic ideation). This behavior ranges from a mere antagonism to Christianity to a hatred of all forms of religion. The rejection of religion leads to a deep longing for a substitute religion, or in extreme cases, a messiah. The more Western a religion is, the more it is despised. Thus, these patients may openly accept more primitive pantheistic, neo-pagan, or animist belief systems, such as Wicca or fraudulent "new age" philosophies, e.g., Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc.
Animist delusion: The belief that mankind is evil and nature is benign. The incidence of this symptom is inversely related to practical knowledge and experience of nature. Collective self-hatred is a feature in this area, paradoxically existing side by side with egomaniacal omniscience, e.g., ability to accurately predict climate 100 years into the future. Typical thinking includes the self-hating belief that mankind is a cancer on earth and that the planet (subjectively felt as a "feeling being") will "retaliate." The animist delusion includes considerable cognitive dissonance, since the typical Progressive Personality is a believer in natural selection, which has resulted in untold suffering and cruelty, mitigated only by mankind's presence.
a. For example, the belief that an eagle egg or four-toed salamander is entitled to more legal protection than a human baby.
Environmental spasm: Chaotic, unreasonable, or incoherent episodes of manic activity on behalf of the environment or "mother nature." The delusional nature of this activity is evidenced by misanthropic attacks on works of man, and also by a manic focus on visible or totemic biological objects of little rational value. The patient is typically obsessed only with cute or cuddly creatures, often a displacement of the nurturing urge (often unfulfilled due to abortion).
Control obsession: A tendency to strive for excessive control over others through state intrusion. A contemptuous projection of unconscious envy which is subjectively experienced as "compassion." Through the magic of this unconscious mechanism, PPD patients typically want the state to appropriate your wealth while imagining themselves to be generous and "compassionate." Use of state coercion often substitutes for true acts of generosity; a low rate of charitable giving is often present.
Racist/feminist hypocrisy: Passionate advocacy of government-enforced discrimination based on sex or race, with aggressively proclaimed opposition to policies which are "racist" or "sexist." Obsessive conformity of thought within a racially diverse population. For example, a PPD patient might favor seating a racist on the Supreme Court, so long as the person is of the "correct" race. Often the cognitive dissonance normally associated with such beliefs is rationalized by the delusion that the "oppressed" cannot themselves be racist.
Overemotional perception: Excessive concern with how a social action "looks" or "feels," to the exclusion of actual resulting benefits or harm; in particular, any effects beyond the immediate. Resistance to, and denial of, objective evidence proving the adverse consequences of progressive policy. Superficial cognition about most matters of significant import, as the progressive personality relies on the "feel" of issues rather than truly understanding them. Obsession with "fairness" or "social justice" as opposed to what actually works.
Sexual dysfunction: Significant anxiety about sexual matters, manifested as:
a. Obsession with sexual and gender roles.
b. Passionate celebration of nontraditional sex roles and preferences.
c. The compulsion to define individuals by their "sexual preference" and to design social policy as if all individuals share the obsession.
d. An inordinate interest in preserving inappropriate, lewd, perverse, or antisocial forms of sexual expression.
e. Fascination with immature or deviant expressions of sexuality; reduction of human sexuality to animal sexuality.
f. The projected belief that the contradictory beliefs are a result of fear (e.g. "homophobia".
e. Obsession with contraception and abortion ("reproductive freedom").
Replacement of patriotism with matriotism: Unwillingness to defend country when attacked or threatened, allied with inability to name or recognize evil and General devaluation of the masculine virtues.
Cultural and moral relativism: The fervent belief that all cultures are beautiful except one's own, and that it is immoral to judge another's morality unless they are conservative.

Davo17 · ‎03-24-2009

GTRMAN wrote:
Oh bullshit. You have no idea what I think of abortion and why. But such intrusion into a woman's body against her will is rape.
Used2BMarkoh wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
I just don't see how this isn't legislated rape..
That's completely ridiculous, and illustrates why we can't find any compromise on this issue in America. Guys like you are not pro-choice, you are flat out pro-abortion. You're not pro-choice because you oppose any efforts to make sure a vulnerable young woman is making an informed choice. But hey, maybe you're just not informed yourself. Do you know what canal that dead baby is going to come out of?

Its not rape, you fucking moron. Idiots like you throwing terms around as it suits you ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

DSM-IV 301.95 Progressive Personality Disorder
A. A pervasive pattern of progressive political and inter-personal thought and action, rooted in discredited leftist (neo-Marxist) beliefs, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following (individual must be at least 18 years of age to qualify for the diagnosis of Progressive Personality Disorder, as many of the criteria are age-appropriate for adolescents). This disorder often coexists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Utopian thinking, e.g. a delusional belief that there exist simple, linear, side effect-free solutions to all social problems.
Lack of historical knowledge and perspective, and repression of personal memories dissonant with this belief system. e.g., the national mood post 9-11, including that of PPD patients, is suppressed in order to avoid conflict with subsequent reversal of beliefs as the PPD delusions were reinstated - hence the downplaying of terrorism as a threat and the obsessive concern for the "rghts" of temporarily feared and hated terrorists. (Note to clinician: please differentiate between mere historical ignorance, e.g., a doctorate in history from an elite university, vs. neurotic or psychotic delusions necessary to sustain these beliefs. )
Anthroplastic delusion, e.g. The delusion that behavioral conditioning performed by the government or some other collective will cure all behavioral and social problems, rooted in denial of fixed human nature. Implicit in this delusion is the idea that human beings are infinitely malleable and subject to behavioral manipulation leading to perfect control and predictability. Free will, personal conscience, and objective morality are denied, devalued or denigrated.
Anti-theistic rebellion: An emotional antagonism to the Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in an abnormal persistence of adolescent rebellion (may also be related to the need to avoid counter-arguments that would question utopian, anthroplastic ideation). This behavior ranges from a mere antagonism to Christianity to a hatred of all forms of religion. The rejection of religion leads to a deep longing for a substitute religion, or in extreme cases, a messiah. The more Western a religion is, the more it is despised. Thus, these patients may openly accept more primitive pantheistic, neo-pagan, or animist belief systems, such as Wicca or fraudulent "new age" philosophies, e.g., Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc.
Animist delusion: The belief that mankind is evil and nature is benign. The incidence of this symptom is inversely related to practical knowledge and experience of nature. Collective self-hatred is a feature in this area, paradoxically existing side by side with egomaniacal omniscience, e.g., ability to accurately predict climate 100 years into the future. Typical thinking includes the self-hating belief that mankind is a cancer on earth and that the planet (subjectively felt as a "feeling being") will "retaliate." The animist delusion includes considerable cognitive dissonance, since the typical Progressive Personality is a believer in natural selection, which has resulted in untold suffering and cruelty, mitigated only by mankind's presence.
a. For example, the belief that an eagle egg or four-toed salamander is entitled to more legal protection than a human baby.
Environmental spasm: Chaotic, unreasonable, or incoherent episodes of manic activity on behalf of the environment or "mother nature." The delusional nature of this activity is evidenced by misanthropic attacks on works of man, and also by a manic focus on visible or totemic biological objects of little rational value. The patient is typically obsessed only with cute or cuddly creatures, often a displacement of the nurturing urge (often unfulfilled due to abortion).
Control obsession: A tendency to strive for excessive control over others through state intrusion. A contemptuous projection of unconscious envy which is subjectively experienced as "compassion." Through the magic of this unconscious mechanism, PPD patients typically want the state to appropriate your wealth while imagining themselves to be generous and "compassionate." Use of state coercion often substitutes for true acts of generosity; a low rate of charitable giving is often present.
Racist/feminist hypocrisy: Passionate advocacy of government-enforced discrimination based on sex or race, with aggressively proclaimed opposition to policies which are "racist" or "sexist." Obsessive conformity of thought within a racially diverse population. For example, a PPD patient might favor seating a racist on the Supreme Court, so long as the person is of the "correct" race. Often the cognitive dissonance normally associated with such beliefs is rationalized by the delusion that the "oppressed" cannot themselves be racist.
Overemotional perception: Excessive concern with how a social action "looks" or "feels," to the exclusion of actual resulting benefits or harm; in particular, any effects beyond the immediate. Resistance to, and denial of, objective evidence proving the adverse consequences of progressive policy. Superficial cognition about most matters of significant import, as the progressive personality relies on the "feel" of issues rather than truly understanding them. Obsession with "fairness" or "social justice" as opposed to what actually works.
Sexual dysfunction: Significant anxiety about sexual matters, manifested as:
a. Obsession with sexual and gender roles.
b. Passionate celebration of nontraditional sex roles and preferences.
c. The compulsion to define individuals by their "sexual preference" and to design social policy as if all individuals share the obsession.
d. An inordinate interest in preserving inappropriate, lewd, perverse, or antisocial forms of sexual expression.
e. Fascination with immature or deviant expressions of sexuality; reduction of human sexuality to animal sexuality.
f. The projected belief that the contradictory beliefs are a result of fear (e.g. "homophobia".
e. Obsession with contraception and abortion ("reproductive freedom").
Replacement of patriotism with matriotism: Unwillingness to defend country when attacked or threatened, allied with inability to name or recognize evil and General devaluation of the masculine virtues.
Cultural and moral relativism: The fervent belief that all cultures are beautiful except one's own, and that it is immoral to judge another's morality unless they are conservative.

Davo17 · ‎03-24-2009

moonlightin wrote:
Used2BMarkoh wrote:
moonlightin wrote:
Used2BMarkoh wrote:
moonlightin wrote:

Ya. It's called the FEMALE'S uteral canal.
Let me remind you of what RU-486 is. First, the "FEMALE" is given rat poison, only the human kind, to kill the baby. Then she's given a drug to induce labor, so she flushes out the dead baby.
Oh, it's great fun. And what could go wrong? The idea of regulating this like it was some kind of medical procedure, that's just crazy talk. No, it's her body, so the caring thing would be to let her just find her dead baby in the toilet.
Ugh. America has become as cruel and inhumane as any nation in history.

To kill the baby? If it was at five months then MAYBE I would agree with you but not before that. All you're doing is preventing the growth of cells into something that could possibly be a baby in about four or more months. You need to educate yourself as to what RU-486 is:

What is RU-486
RU-486 is the name commonly used for an artificial steroid that blocks progesterone, a hormone needed to continue a pregnancy.2
There are two drugs typically given, and the 2nd one is the RU486.
Shoot, I've even heard NPR do an honest story on the experience. Take your own medicine, educate YOUR self.

Moron. I post a link with education about it and you didn't even click on it then you come and tell me to educate myself?

Other names for RU-486:
Mifepristone is the generic name for RU-486. In the U.S., RU-486 is sold under the brand names Mifeprex® and Early Option®.

Note: An RU-486 abortion involves two drugs
When taken alone, RU-486 causes a complete abortion only about 60% of the time.3 A second drug, a prostaglandin, is given 48 hours later to increase its effectiveness. The prostaglandin causes uterine contractions to help expel the embryo.

Misoprostol (brand name Cytotec) is the prostaglandin used with RU-486 in the U.S.
prostaglandin

NOWHERE in there does it say rat poison. And if you were listening to NPR... then I'm also pretty sure you're listening didn't quite understand what was being said.

And FYI... I did a quick yahoo search for your NPR article and nowhere in them did it say it was rat poison for mice. It did say mice were affected when using RU486.... in regards to breast cancer.

Its still toxic and lethal to the fetus.

DSM-IV 301.95 Progressive Personality Disorder
A. A pervasive pattern of progressive political and inter-personal thought and action, rooted in discredited leftist (neo-Marxist) beliefs, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following (individual must be at least 18 years of age to qualify for the diagnosis of Progressive Personality Disorder, as many of the criteria are age-appropriate for adolescents). This disorder often coexists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Utopian thinking, e.g. a delusional belief that there exist simple, linear, side effect-free solutions to all social problems.
Lack of historical knowledge and perspective, and repression of personal memories dissonant with this belief system. e.g., the national mood post 9-11, including that of PPD patients, is suppressed in order to avoid conflict with subsequent reversal of beliefs as the PPD delusions were reinstated - hence the downplaying of terrorism as a threat and the obsessive concern for the "rghts" of temporarily feared and hated terrorists. (Note to clinician: please differentiate between mere historical ignorance, e.g., a doctorate in history from an elite university, vs. neurotic or psychotic delusions necessary to sustain these beliefs. )
Anthroplastic delusion, e.g. The delusion that behavioral conditioning performed by the government or some other collective will cure all behavioral and social problems, rooted in denial of fixed human nature. Implicit in this delusion is the idea that human beings are infinitely malleable and subject to behavioral manipulation leading to perfect control and predictability. Free will, personal conscience, and objective morality are denied, devalued or denigrated.
Anti-theistic rebellion: An emotional antagonism to the Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in an abnormal persistence of adolescent rebellion (may also be related to the need to avoid counter-arguments that would question utopian, anthroplastic ideation). This behavior ranges from a mere antagonism to Christianity to a hatred of all forms of religion. The rejection of religion leads to a deep longing for a substitute religion, or in extreme cases, a messiah. The more Western a religion is, the more it is despised. Thus, these patients may openly accept more primitive pantheistic, neo-pagan, or animist belief systems, such as Wicca or fraudulent "new age" philosophies, e.g., Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc.
Animist delusion: The belief that mankind is evil and nature is benign. The incidence of this symptom is inversely related to practical knowledge and experience of nature. Collective self-hatred is a feature in this area, paradoxically existing side by side with egomaniacal omniscience, e.g., ability to accurately predict climate 100 years into the future. Typical thinking includes the self-hating belief that mankind is a cancer on earth and that the planet (subjectively felt as a "feeling being") will "retaliate." The animist delusion includes considerable cognitive dissonance, since the typical Progressive Personality is a believer in natural selection, which has resulted in untold suffering and cruelty, mitigated only by mankind's presence.
a. For example, the belief that an eagle egg or four-toed salamander is entitled to more legal protection than a human baby.
Environmental spasm: Chaotic, unreasonable, or incoherent episodes of manic activity on behalf of the environment or "mother nature." The delusional nature of this activity is evidenced by misanthropic attacks on works of man, and also by a manic focus on visible or totemic biological objects of little rational value. The patient is typically obsessed only with cute or cuddly creatures, often a displacement of the nurturing urge (often unfulfilled due to abortion).
Control obsession: A tendency to strive for excessive control over others through state intrusion. A contemptuous projection of unconscious envy which is subjectively experienced as "compassion." Through the magic of this unconscious mechanism, PPD patients typically want the state to appropriate your wealth while imagining themselves to be generous and "compassionate." Use of state coercion often substitutes for true acts of generosity; a low rate of charitable giving is often present.
Racist/feminist hypocrisy: Passionate advocacy of government-enforced discrimination based on sex or race, with aggressively proclaimed opposition to policies which are "racist" or "sexist." Obsessive conformity of thought within a racially diverse population. For example, a PPD patient might favor seating a racist on the Supreme Court, so long as the person is of the "correct" race. Often the cognitive dissonance normally associated with such beliefs is rationalized by the delusion that the "oppressed" cannot themselves be racist.
Overemotional perception: Excessive concern with how a social action "looks" or "feels," to the exclusion of actual resulting benefits or harm; in particular, any effects beyond the immediate. Resistance to, and denial of, objective evidence proving the adverse consequences of progressive policy. Superficial cognition about most matters of significant import, as the progressive personality relies on the "feel" of issues rather than truly understanding them. Obsession with "fairness" or "social justice" as opposed to what actually works.
Sexual dysfunction: Significant anxiety about sexual matters, manifested as:
a. Obsession with sexual and gender roles.
b. Passionate celebration of nontraditional sex roles and preferences.
c. The compulsion to define individuals by their "sexual preference" and to design social policy as if all individuals share the obsession.
d. An inordinate interest in preserving inappropriate, lewd, perverse, or antisocial forms of sexual expression.
e. Fascination with immature or deviant expressions of sexuality; reduction of human sexuality to animal sexuality.
f. The projected belief that the contradictory beliefs are a result of fear (e.g. "homophobia".
e. Obsession with contraception and abortion ("reproductive freedom").
Replacement of patriotism with matriotism: Unwillingness to defend country when attacked or threatened, allied with inability to name or recognize evil and General devaluation of the masculine virtues.
Cultural and moral relativism: The fervent belief that all cultures are beautiful except one's own, and that it is immoral to judge another's morality unless they are conservative.

mdwagner73 · ‎03-02-2009

Davo17 wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
Oh bullshit. You have no idea what I think of abortion and why. But such intrusion into a woman's body against her will is rape.
Used2BMarkoh wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
I just don't see how this isn't legislated rape..
That's completely ridiculous, and illustrates why we can't find any compromise on this issue in America. Guys like you are not pro-choice, you are flat out pro-abortion. You're not pro-choice because you oppose any efforts to make sure a vulnerable young woman is making an informed choice. But hey, maybe you're just not informed yourself. Do you know what canal that dead baby is going to come out of?

Its not rape, you fucking moron. Idiots like you throwing terms around as it suits you ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

Yeah... like when pro-lifers claim legal abortion is murder.

Davo17 · ‎03-24-2009

GTRMAN wrote:
Holy shit. Really? Pap smears are not REQUIRED before being prescribed a medication. You are so full of shit I can smell you from here. This is a shaming tactic to prevent women from having chemically-induced abortions. Just be honest. Why are you ignoring the 9th Commandment?
Used2BMarkoh wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
Oh bullshit. You have no idea what I think of abortion and why. But such intrusion into a woman's body against her will is rape.

No, it's not rape, obviously, and you're not willing to be real about a matter of life and death. Women will be subject to pap smears and the like all their life and it's not rape. Unpleasant, yes, rape, not even close. We're talking about a pregnant woman here you realize, and you do know how that happens, right?
It's completely legitimate for you to have an opinion on what the law should be, but not legitimate to be deliberately absurd. Find the stones to back off and admit you were being extreme.

Incorrect.

Often enough, a pap is required, either for a culture, or cell cytology. You have to know if the meds are appropriate.

DSM-IV 301.95 Progressive Personality Disorder
A. A pervasive pattern of progressive political and inter-personal thought and action, rooted in discredited leftist (neo-Marxist) beliefs, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following (individual must be at least 18 years of age to qualify for the diagnosis of Progressive Personality Disorder, as many of the criteria are age-appropriate for adolescents). This disorder often coexists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Utopian thinking, e.g. a delusional belief that there exist simple, linear, side effect-free solutions to all social problems.
Lack of historical knowledge and perspective, and repression of personal memories dissonant with this belief system. e.g., the national mood post 9-11, including that of PPD patients, is suppressed in order to avoid conflict with subsequent reversal of beliefs as the PPD delusions were reinstated - hence the downplaying of terrorism as a threat and the obsessive concern for the "rghts" of temporarily feared and hated terrorists. (Note to clinician: please differentiate between mere historical ignorance, e.g., a doctorate in history from an elite university, vs. neurotic or psychotic delusions necessary to sustain these beliefs. )
Anthroplastic delusion, e.g. The delusion that behavioral conditioning performed by the government or some other collective will cure all behavioral and social problems, rooted in denial of fixed human nature. Implicit in this delusion is the idea that human beings are infinitely malleable and subject to behavioral manipulation leading to perfect control and predictability. Free will, personal conscience, and objective morality are denied, devalued or denigrated.
Anti-theistic rebellion: An emotional antagonism to the Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in an abnormal persistence of adolescent rebellion (may also be related to the need to avoid counter-arguments that would question utopian, anthroplastic ideation). This behavior ranges from a mere antagonism to Christianity to a hatred of all forms of religion. The rejection of religion leads to a deep longing for a substitute religion, or in extreme cases, a messiah. The more Western a religion is, the more it is despised. Thus, these patients may openly accept more primitive pantheistic, neo-pagan, or animist belief systems, such as Wicca or fraudulent "new age" philosophies, e.g., Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc.
Animist delusion: The belief that mankind is evil and nature is benign. The incidence of this symptom is inversely related to practical knowledge and experience of nature. Collective self-hatred is a feature in this area, paradoxically existing side by side with egomaniacal omniscience, e.g., ability to accurately predict climate 100 years into the future. Typical thinking includes the self-hating belief that mankind is a cancer on earth and that the planet (subjectively felt as a "feeling being") will "retaliate." The animist delusion includes considerable cognitive dissonance, since the typical Progressive Personality is a believer in natural selection, which has resulted in untold suffering and cruelty, mitigated only by mankind's presence.
a. For example, the belief that an eagle egg or four-toed salamander is entitled to more legal protection than a human baby.
Environmental spasm: Chaotic, unreasonable, or incoherent episodes of manic activity on behalf of the environment or "mother nature." The delusional nature of this activity is evidenced by misanthropic attacks on works of man, and also by a manic focus on visible or totemic biological objects of little rational value. The patient is typically obsessed only with cute or cuddly creatures, often a displacement of the nurturing urge (often unfulfilled due to abortion).
Control obsession: A tendency to strive for excessive control over others through state intrusion. A contemptuous projection of unconscious envy which is subjectively experienced as "compassion." Through the magic of this unconscious mechanism, PPD patients typically want the state to appropriate your wealth while imagining themselves to be generous and "compassionate." Use of state coercion often substitutes for true acts of generosity; a low rate of charitable giving is often present.
Racist/feminist hypocrisy: Passionate advocacy of government-enforced discrimination based on sex or race, with aggressively proclaimed opposition to policies which are "racist" or "sexist." Obsessive conformity of thought within a racially diverse population. For example, a PPD patient might favor seating a racist on the Supreme Court, so long as the person is of the "correct" race. Often the cognitive dissonance normally associated with such beliefs is rationalized by the delusion that the "oppressed" cannot themselves be racist.
Overemotional perception: Excessive concern with how a social action "looks" or "feels," to the exclusion of actual resulting benefits or harm; in particular, any effects beyond the immediate. Resistance to, and denial of, objective evidence proving the adverse consequences of progressive policy. Superficial cognition about most matters of significant import, as the progressive personality relies on the "feel" of issues rather than truly understanding them. Obsession with "fairness" or "social justice" as opposed to what actually works.
Sexual dysfunction: Significant anxiety about sexual matters, manifested as:
a. Obsession with sexual and gender roles.
b. Passionate celebration of nontraditional sex roles and preferences.
c. The compulsion to define individuals by their "sexual preference" and to design social policy as if all individuals share the obsession.
d. An inordinate interest in preserving inappropriate, lewd, perverse, or antisocial forms of sexual expression.
e. Fascination with immature or deviant expressions of sexuality; reduction of human sexuality to animal sexuality.
f. The projected belief that the contradictory beliefs are a result of fear (e.g. "homophobia".
e. Obsession with contraception and abortion ("reproductive freedom").
Replacement of patriotism with matriotism: Unwillingness to defend country when attacked or threatened, allied with inability to name or recognize evil and General devaluation of the masculine virtues.
Cultural and moral relativism: The fervent belief that all cultures are beautiful except one's own, and that it is immoral to judge another's morality unless they are conservative.

Davo17 · ‎03-24-2009

GTRMAN wrote:
Okay, Einstein. How about providing a link to any medical journal article or medical association guidelines outlining hownsuch a procedure is necessary or recommended in these cases.
nedezero1 wrote:
mdwagner73 wrote:
nedezero1 wrote:
Why are lefties so afraid of arming women with as much information as possible prior to a possibly life altering decision.
Why are so-called conservatives so willing to force medically unnecessary procedures and have the government intervene in something that should be between a doctor and patient?
Gee can you think of any other medical procedure that requires certain testing and information gathering beforehand? I can think of tons.
Here's a good one....lap bands or other procedures to shrink stomach size for the purposes of weight loss.
It's elective, and the decision is between the doctor and the patient. But there's a bunch of physical and mental analysis that is reuired before hand.
A woman has a right to an abortion, that is not in question.
I just fall on the side of trying to prevent it if possible. You may feel otherwise.
And yes that includes contraception education etc.

In clinical trials, nearly all women using mifepristone experienced abdominal pain, uterine cramping, and vaginal bleeding or spotting for an average of 9–16 days. Up to 8% of women experienced some type of bleeding for 30 days or more. Other less common side effects included nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, dizziness, fatigue, and fever.[32] Pelvic inflammatory disease (PID) is a very rare but serious complication.[33] Excessive bleeding and incomplete termination of a pregnancy require further intervention by a doctor (such as vacuum aspiration). Between 4.5 and 7.9% of women required surgical intervention in clinical trials.[32] Mifepristone is contraindicated in the presence of an intrauterine device (IUD), as well as with ectopic pregnancy, adrenal failure, hemorrhagic disorders, inherited porphyria, and anticoagulant or long-termcorticosteroid therapy.[32]

The FDA prescribing information states that there are no data on the safety and efficacy of mifepristone in women with chronic medical conditions, and that "women who are more than 35 years of age and who also smoke 10 or more cigarettes per day should be treated with caution because such patients were generally excluded from clinical trials of mifepristone."[32]

[edit]Adverse effects

No long-term studies to evaluate the carcinogenic potential of mifepristone have been performed. Results from studies conducted in vitro and in animals have revealed no genotoxic potential for mifepristone.

Neonatal exposure to a single large dose of mifepristone in rats was not associated with any reproductive problems, although chronic low-dose exposure of newborn rats to mifepristone was associated with structural and functional reproductive abnormalities.[32]

Teratology studies in mice, rats and rabbits revealed teratogenicity for rabbits, but not rats or mice.[32] The rate of birth defects in human infants exposed in utero to mifepristone and misoprostol is very low,[34] and may be due to misoprostol alone.[35]

A postmarketing summary found that, of about 1.52 million women who had received mifepristone until April 2011 in the US, fourteen were reported to have died after application. Eight of these cases were associated with sepsis; the other six had various causes like drug abuse and suspected murder. Other incidents reported to the FDA included 612 non-lethal hospitalizations, 339 blood transfusions, 48 severe infections, and 2,207 (0.15%) adverse events altogether.[36]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mifepristone#Contraindications

https://apps.who.int/rht/documents/MSM94-1/clinical_management_of_abortion_.htm

Nov. 16, 2004 — The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and Danco Laboratories, LLC, have made changes to the black box safety labeling for mifepristone (Mifeprex, also known as RU-486) to warn of the risk of serious bacterial infections, sepsis, bleeding, and death associated with any pregnancy termination, including use of mifepristone, according to an alert sent yesterday from MedWatch, the FDA's safety information and adverse event reporting program.

Mifepristone was approved in 2000 for the termination of early pregnancy of 49 days or less, counting from the beginning of the last menstrual period.

Use of mifepristone has been associated with reports of serious bacterial infection, bleeding, ruptured ectopic pregnancy, and death, including a recently reported death due to sepsis. The new labeling is intended to raise awareness of these rare risks and provide information that will enable physicians and patients to recognize and possibly prevent abortion-related complications.

The FDA reminds healthcare providers that serious bacterial infection and sepsis may be present in the absence of identifying symptoms (such as fever and tenderness upon examination), and that prolonged menorrhagia may require surgical intervention.

Healthcare providers are warned to be vigilant for patients with ectopic pregnancies missed by physical examination and ultrasound, due to the similarity of symptoms with those expected upon medical termination of pregnancy. Mifepristone is not indicated for use in terminating ectopic pregnancy.

The FDA recommends that patients using mifepristone immediately contact their healthcare provider if symptoms of fever, abdominal pain, and heavy bleeding develop. Patients are advised to bring the drug medication guide to the emergency room and when consulting healthcare providers to make physicians aware of the pregnancy termination and allow them to evaluate the associated risks.

Adverse events related to use of mifepristone should be reported to the FDA's MedWatch program by phone at 1-800-FDA-1088, by fax at 1-800-FDA-0178, online at http://www.fda.gov/medwatch, or by mail to 5600 Fishers Lane, Rockville, MD 20852-9787.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/493996

And finally from ACOG-the authority here in the US...

Follow-up

Women should be evaluated 1-2 weeks after misoprostol administration in order to ensure complete abortion. This can be done through obtaining a history and clinical examination (4, 11). If the process is not yet finished and as long as the woman is clinically stable, she may be offered a choice between expectant management or a repeat dose of misoprostol at the follow-up visit (18). The follow-up visit is also a good time to reiterate key contraceptive messages and to involve the male partner.

DSM-IV 301.95 Progressive Personality Disorder
A. A pervasive pattern of progressive political and inter-personal thought and action, rooted in discredited leftist (neo-Marxist) beliefs, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following (individual must be at least 18 years of age to qualify for the diagnosis of Progressive Personality Disorder, as many of the criteria are age-appropriate for adolescents). This disorder often coexists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Utopian thinking, e.g. a delusional belief that there exist simple, linear, side effect-free solutions to all social problems.
Lack of historical knowledge and perspective, and repression of personal memories dissonant with this belief system. e.g., the national mood post 9-11, including that of PPD patients, is suppressed in order to avoid conflict with subsequent reversal of beliefs as the PPD delusions were reinstated - hence the downplaying of terrorism as a threat and the obsessive concern for the "rghts" of temporarily feared and hated terrorists. (Note to clinician: please differentiate between mere historical ignorance, e.g., a doctorate in history from an elite university, vs. neurotic or psychotic delusions necessary to sustain these beliefs. )
Anthroplastic delusion, e.g. The delusion that behavioral conditioning performed by the government or some other collective will cure all behavioral and social problems, rooted in denial of fixed human nature. Implicit in this delusion is the idea that human beings are infinitely malleable and subject to behavioral manipulation leading to perfect control and predictability. Free will, personal conscience, and objective morality are denied, devalued or denigrated.
Anti-theistic rebellion: An emotional antagonism to the Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in an abnormal persistence of adolescent rebellion (may also be related to the need to avoid counter-arguments that would question utopian, anthroplastic ideation). This behavior ranges from a mere antagonism to Christianity to a hatred of all forms of religion. The rejection of religion leads to a deep longing for a substitute religion, or in extreme cases, a messiah. The more Western a religion is, the more it is despised. Thus, these patients may openly accept more primitive pantheistic, neo-pagan, or animist belief systems, such as Wicca or fraudulent "new age" philosophies, e.g., Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc.
Animist delusion: The belief that mankind is evil and nature is benign. The incidence of this symptom is inversely related to practical knowledge and experience of nature. Collective self-hatred is a feature in this area, paradoxically existing side by side with egomaniacal omniscience, e.g., ability to accurately predict climate 100 years into the future. Typical thinking includes the self-hating belief that mankind is a cancer on earth and that the planet (subjectively felt as a "feeling being") will "retaliate." The animist delusion includes considerable cognitive dissonance, since the typical Progressive Personality is a believer in natural selection, which has resulted in untold suffering and cruelty, mitigated only by mankind's presence.
a. For example, the belief that an eagle egg or four-toed salamander is entitled to more legal protection than a human baby.
Environmental spasm: Chaotic, unreasonable, or incoherent episodes of manic activity on behalf of the environment or "mother nature." The delusional nature of this activity is evidenced by misanthropic attacks on works of man, and also by a manic focus on visible or totemic biological objects of little rational value. The patient is typically obsessed only with cute or cuddly creatures, often a displacement of the nurturing urge (often unfulfilled due to abortion).
Control obsession: A tendency to strive for excessive control over others through state intrusion. A contemptuous projection of unconscious envy which is subjectively experienced as "compassion." Through the magic of this unconscious mechanism, PPD patients typically want the state to appropriate your wealth while imagining themselves to be generous and "compassionate." Use of state coercion often substitutes for true acts of generosity; a low rate of charitable giving is often present.
Racist/feminist hypocrisy: Passionate advocacy of government-enforced discrimination based on sex or race, with aggressively proclaimed opposition to policies which are "racist" or "sexist." Obsessive conformity of thought within a racially diverse population. For example, a PPD patient might favor seating a racist on the Supreme Court, so long as the person is of the "correct" race. Often the cognitive dissonance normally associated with such beliefs is rationalized by the delusion that the "oppressed" cannot themselves be racist.
Overemotional perception: Excessive concern with how a social action "looks" or "feels," to the exclusion of actual resulting benefits or harm; in particular, any effects beyond the immediate. Resistance to, and denial of, objective evidence proving the adverse consequences of progressive policy. Superficial cognition about most matters of significant import, as the progressive personality relies on the "feel" of issues rather than truly understanding them. Obsession with "fairness" or "social justice" as opposed to what actually works.
Sexual dysfunction: Significant anxiety about sexual matters, manifested as:
a. Obsession with sexual and gender roles.
b. Passionate celebration of nontraditional sex roles and preferences.
c. The compulsion to define individuals by their "sexual preference" and to design social policy as if all individuals share the obsession.
d. An inordinate interest in preserving inappropriate, lewd, perverse, or antisocial forms of sexual expression.
e. Fascination with immature or deviant expressions of sexuality; reduction of human sexuality to animal sexuality.
f. The projected belief that the contradictory beliefs are a result of fear (e.g. "homophobia".
e. Obsession with contraception and abortion ("reproductive freedom").
Replacement of patriotism with matriotism: Unwillingness to defend country when attacked or threatened, allied with inability to name or recognize evil and General devaluation of the masculine virtues.
Cultural and moral relativism: The fervent belief that all cultures are beautiful except one's own, and that it is immoral to judge another's morality unless they are conservative.

Davo17 · ‎03-24-2009

ACOG...
http://www.acog.org/Resources%20And%20Publications/Committee%20Opinions/Committee%20on%20Internation...

Abortion pill mifepristone causes health complications in women

"Marketing the abortion drug as simple and painless, such as taking an aspirin, is dangerously misleading to women...Despite the seriousness and intensity of adverse effects related to RU-486, use of this form of abortion is on the rise."

Read more: http://digitaljournal.com/article/313647#ixzz2Lf80fbO1

Read more: http://digitaljournal.com/article/313647#ixzz2Lf7qKJqu

DSM-IV 301.95 Progressive Personality Disorder
A. A pervasive pattern of progressive political and inter-personal thought and action, rooted in discredited leftist (neo-Marxist) beliefs, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following (individual must be at least 18 years of age to qualify for the diagnosis of Progressive Personality Disorder, as many of the criteria are age-appropriate for adolescents). This disorder often coexists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Utopian thinking, e.g. a delusional belief that there exist simple, linear, side effect-free solutions to all social problems.
Lack of historical knowledge and perspective, and repression of personal memories dissonant with this belief system. e.g., the national mood post 9-11, including that of PPD patients, is suppressed in order to avoid conflict with subsequent reversal of beliefs as the PPD delusions were reinstated - hence the downplaying of terrorism as a threat and the obsessive concern for the "rghts" of temporarily feared and hated terrorists. (Note to clinician: please differentiate between mere historical ignorance, e.g., a doctorate in history from an elite university, vs. neurotic or psychotic delusions necessary to sustain these beliefs. )
Anthroplastic delusion, e.g. The delusion that behavioral conditioning performed by the government or some other collective will cure all behavioral and social problems, rooted in denial of fixed human nature. Implicit in this delusion is the idea that human beings are infinitely malleable and subject to behavioral manipulation leading to perfect control and predictability. Free will, personal conscience, and objective morality are denied, devalued or denigrated.
Anti-theistic rebellion: An emotional antagonism to the Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in an abnormal persistence of adolescent rebellion (may also be related to the need to avoid counter-arguments that would question utopian, anthroplastic ideation). This behavior ranges from a mere antagonism to Christianity to a hatred of all forms of religion. The rejection of religion leads to a deep longing for a substitute religion, or in extreme cases, a messiah. The more Western a religion is, the more it is despised. Thus, these patients may openly accept more primitive pantheistic, neo-pagan, or animist belief systems, such as Wicca or fraudulent "new age" philosophies, e.g., Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc.
Animist delusion: The belief that mankind is evil and nature is benign. The incidence of this symptom is inversely related to practical knowledge and experience of nature. Collective self-hatred is a feature in this area, paradoxically existing side by side with egomaniacal omniscience, e.g., ability to accurately predict climate 100 years into the future. Typical thinking includes the self-hating belief that mankind is a cancer on earth and that the planet (subjectively felt as a "feeling being") will "retaliate." The animist delusion includes considerable cognitive dissonance, since the typical Progressive Personality is a believer in natural selection, which has resulted in untold suffering and cruelty, mitigated only by mankind's presence.
a. For example, the belief that an eagle egg or four-toed salamander is entitled to more legal protection than a human baby.
Environmental spasm: Chaotic, unreasonable, or incoherent episodes of manic activity on behalf of the environment or "mother nature." The delusional nature of this activity is evidenced by misanthropic attacks on works of man, and also by a manic focus on visible or totemic biological objects of little rational value. The patient is typically obsessed only with cute or cuddly creatures, often a displacement of the nurturing urge (often unfulfilled due to abortion).
Control obsession: A tendency to strive for excessive control over others through state intrusion. A contemptuous projection of unconscious envy which is subjectively experienced as "compassion." Through the magic of this unconscious mechanism, PPD patients typically want the state to appropriate your wealth while imagining themselves to be generous and "compassionate." Use of state coercion often substitutes for true acts of generosity; a low rate of charitable giving is often present.
Racist/feminist hypocrisy: Passionate advocacy of government-enforced discrimination based on sex or race, with aggressively proclaimed opposition to policies which are "racist" or "sexist." Obsessive conformity of thought within a racially diverse population. For example, a PPD patient might favor seating a racist on the Supreme Court, so long as the person is of the "correct" race. Often the cognitive dissonance normally associated with such beliefs is rationalized by the delusion that the "oppressed" cannot themselves be racist.
Overemotional perception: Excessive concern with how a social action "looks" or "feels," to the exclusion of actual resulting benefits or harm; in particular, any effects beyond the immediate. Resistance to, and denial of, objective evidence proving the adverse consequences of progressive policy. Superficial cognition about most matters of significant import, as the progressive personality relies on the "feel" of issues rather than truly understanding them. Obsession with "fairness" or "social justice" as opposed to what actually works.
Sexual dysfunction: Significant anxiety about sexual matters, manifested as:
a. Obsession with sexual and gender roles.
b. Passionate celebration of nontraditional sex roles and preferences.
c. The compulsion to define individuals by their "sexual preference" and to design social policy as if all individuals share the obsession.
d. An inordinate interest in preserving inappropriate, lewd, perverse, or antisocial forms of sexual expression.
e. Fascination with immature or deviant expressions of sexuality; reduction of human sexuality to animal sexuality.
f. The projected belief that the contradictory beliefs are a result of fear (e.g. "homophobia".
e. Obsession with contraception and abortion ("reproductive freedom").
Replacement of patriotism with matriotism: Unwillingness to defend country when attacked or threatened, allied with inability to name or recognize evil and General devaluation of the masculine virtues.
Cultural and moral relativism: The fervent belief that all cultures are beautiful except one's own, and that it is immoral to judge another's morality unless they are conservative.

Davo17 · ‎03-24-2009

mdwagner73 wrote:
Davo17 wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
Oh bullshit. You have no idea what I think of abortion and why. But such intrusion into a woman's body against her will is rape.
Used2BMarkoh wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
I just don't see how this isn't legislated rape..
That's completely ridiculous, and illustrates why we can't find any compromise on this issue in America. Guys like you are not pro-choice, you are flat out pro-abortion. You're not pro-choice because you oppose any efforts to make sure a vulnerable young woman is making an informed choice. But hey, maybe you're just not informed yourself. Do you know what canal that dead baby is going to come out of?

Its not rape, you fucking moron. Idiots like you throwing terms around as it suits you ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.
Yeah... like when pro-lifers claim legal abortion is murder.

Since when is pointing fingers at someone else a valid defense?

DSM-IV 301.95 Progressive Personality Disorder
A. A pervasive pattern of progressive political and inter-personal thought and action, rooted in discredited leftist (neo-Marxist) beliefs, beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following (individual must be at least 18 years of age to qualify for the diagnosis of Progressive Personality Disorder, as many of the criteria are age-appropriate for adolescents). This disorder often coexists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Utopian thinking, e.g. a delusional belief that there exist simple, linear, side effect-free solutions to all social problems.
Lack of historical knowledge and perspective, and repression of personal memories dissonant with this belief system. e.g., the national mood post 9-11, including that of PPD patients, is suppressed in order to avoid conflict with subsequent reversal of beliefs as the PPD delusions were reinstated - hence the downplaying of terrorism as a threat and the obsessive concern for the "rghts" of temporarily feared and hated terrorists. (Note to clinician: please differentiate between mere historical ignorance, e.g., a doctorate in history from an elite university, vs. neurotic or psychotic delusions necessary to sustain these beliefs. )
Anthroplastic delusion, e.g. The delusion that behavioral conditioning performed by the government or some other collective will cure all behavioral and social problems, rooted in denial of fixed human nature. Implicit in this delusion is the idea that human beings are infinitely malleable and subject to behavioral manipulation leading to perfect control and predictability. Free will, personal conscience, and objective morality are denied, devalued or denigrated.
Anti-theistic rebellion: An emotional antagonism to the Judeo-Christian tradition, rooted in an abnormal persistence of adolescent rebellion (may also be related to the need to avoid counter-arguments that would question utopian, anthroplastic ideation). This behavior ranges from a mere antagonism to Christianity to a hatred of all forms of religion. The rejection of religion leads to a deep longing for a substitute religion, or in extreme cases, a messiah. The more Western a religion is, the more it is despised. Thus, these patients may openly accept more primitive pantheistic, neo-pagan, or animist belief systems, such as Wicca or fraudulent "new age" philosophies, e.g., Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins, etc.
Animist delusion: The belief that mankind is evil and nature is benign. The incidence of this symptom is inversely related to practical knowledge and experience of nature. Collective self-hatred is a feature in this area, paradoxically existing side by side with egomaniacal omniscience, e.g., ability to accurately predict climate 100 years into the future. Typical thinking includes the self-hating belief that mankind is a cancer on earth and that the planet (subjectively felt as a "feeling being") will "retaliate." The animist delusion includes considerable cognitive dissonance, since the typical Progressive Personality is a believer in natural selection, which has resulted in untold suffering and cruelty, mitigated only by mankind's presence.
a. For example, the belief that an eagle egg or four-toed salamander is entitled to more legal protection than a human baby.
Environmental spasm: Chaotic, unreasonable, or incoherent episodes of manic activity on behalf of the environment or "mother nature." The delusional nature of this activity is evidenced by misanthropic attacks on works of man, and also by a manic focus on visible or totemic biological objects of little rational value. The patient is typically obsessed only with cute or cuddly creatures, often a displacement of the nurturing urge (often unfulfilled due to abortion).
Control obsession: A tendency to strive for excessive control over others through state intrusion. A contemptuous projection of unconscious envy which is subjectively experienced as "compassion." Through the magic of this unconscious mechanism, PPD patients typically want the state to appropriate your wealth while imagining themselves to be generous and "compassionate." Use of state coercion often substitutes for true acts of generosity; a low rate of charitable giving is often present.
Racist/feminist hypocrisy: Passionate advocacy of government-enforced discrimination based on sex or race, with aggressively proclaimed opposition to policies which are "racist" or "sexist." Obsessive conformity of thought within a racially diverse population. For example, a PPD patient might favor seating a racist on the Supreme Court, so long as the person is of the "correct" race. Often the cognitive dissonance normally associated with such beliefs is rationalized by the delusion that the "oppressed" cannot themselves be racist.
Overemotional perception: Excessive concern with how a social action "looks" or "feels," to the exclusion of actual resulting benefits or harm; in particular, any effects beyond the immediate. Resistance to, and denial of, objective evidence proving the adverse consequences of progressive policy. Superficial cognition about most matters of significant import, as the progressive personality relies on the "feel" of issues rather than truly understanding them. Obsession with "fairness" or "social justice" as opposed to what actually works.
Sexual dysfunction: Significant anxiety about sexual matters, manifested as:
a. Obsession with sexual and gender roles.
b. Passionate celebration of nontraditional sex roles and preferences.
c. The compulsion to define individuals by their "sexual preference" and to design social policy as if all individuals share the obsession.
d. An inordinate interest in preserving inappropriate, lewd, perverse, or antisocial forms of sexual expression.
e. Fascination with immature or deviant expressions of sexuality; reduction of human sexuality to animal sexuality.
f. The projected belief that the contradictory beliefs are a result of fear (e.g. "homophobia".
e. Obsession with contraception and abortion ("reproductive freedom").
Replacement of patriotism with matriotism: Unwillingness to defend country when attacked or threatened, allied with inability to name or recognize evil and General devaluation of the masculine virtues.
Cultural and moral relativism: The fervent belief that all cultures are beautiful except one's own, and that it is immoral to judge another's morality unless they are conservative.

Used2BMarkoh · ‎06-02-2009

mdwagner73 wrote:

Its not rape, you fucking moron. Idiots like you throwing terms around as it suits you ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

Yeah... like when pro-lifers claim legal abortion is murder.

Murder is a legal term so it's what we'd call 'begging the question'. Rape, on the other hand, is a pretty specific act, and getting an ultrasound is simply not rape.

Abortion IS killing a human being, that much is basically fact. The debate is whether it should be allowed in some cases and who should get to make the decision.

I have noticed that those who deny God also deny their own humanity

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