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Super Contributor
Virgman
Posts: 12,748
Registered: ‎02-02-2005

Chord based soloing

I've been using this lately and it gives you a different approach. Been doing it for a couple weeks now over jazz tunes and I'm getting some new lines from it. Can only play slowly so far but it sounds nice in a chord melody type way. Real purty. You need to think of several things at the same time. I'm kind of meshing drop 2 chords, full jazz chords and underlying major scale notes and melody. I have always admired guitarists who can seamlessly combine chords, melody, and improvisation while playing like Kenny Burrell or Joe Pass. :smileyvery-happy:


"Molon labe!" -- King Leonidas I
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Super Contributor
mosiddiqi
Posts: 26,802
Registered: ‎02-13-2008

Re: Chord based soloing

Jazz?? :eek: that's some scary shit. :smileysurprised:
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Mosiddiqi is a prick, btw.
Some Tunes:

http://www.box.net/shared/zbo8hrncu2
http://www.box.net/shared/dnlnkn3g44
http://www.box.net/shared/th4tv5noyi

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Super Contributor
Posts: 1,312
Registered: ‎11-12-2007

Re: Chord based soloing

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Super Contributor
Virgman
Posts: 12,748
Registered: ‎02-02-2005

Re: Chord based soloing

Damn, re-read my post and had some typos there. Oops! Fixed them hopefully. Remember, Mos (Jon already knows this) when you play jazz you are allowed to make all kinds of musical typos and as long as you wear a cool hat and have a serious expression it's all good. But you can't make typos when writing. If you do Sister Winifred will hit you over the head with a three sided ruler. Ouch! But I am so disheartened by the lack of serious responses to my deeply sincere post. The hell with it. I quit. I will never play my guitar again and will now take up the harmonica.


"Molon labe!" -- King Leonidas I
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Contributor
Posts: 30
Registered: ‎12-30-2001

Re: Chord based soloing

Knopfler is the DADDY when it comes to this stuff. Check out the Sultans of Swing solo, that's got some awesome chordal playing in it.
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Contributor
Posts: 41
Registered: ‎07-11-2011

Re: Chord based soloing

The master of this approach, of course, was Charlie Christian. If Knopfler is the Daddy, then CC was the great grandaddy. :-) Have you guys read through this resource? http://www.music-open-source.com/source/Charlie-Christian-guitar-method-eBook/fichier/%28ebook%29%20... I use chord-shape soloing from time to time, and what I like about it is that it gives you intervals in your playing that you wouldn't typically use when basing your solo off of arpeggios or scale/scale fragments. Drop-2 shapes seem to work real well; because they are 4-note constructs, you can use any of a host of rhythmic motives to play those 4 notes and end strongly on a chord tone. Drop-3s also work, but I find that they are a bit too spread out for my taste.
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Super Contributor
Posts: 3,295
Registered: ‎07-27-2005

Re: Chord based soloing

I do this a lot, but in blues rather than jazz. I'm not yet up to the mental task of (for example) coughing up an Eb11-5 chord in position 6 within the time allowed by 16th note triads... But I'm starting to get fairly proficient at finding 7th & 9th chord inversions of any key in any position in that manner, which works well for blues.
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Contributor
Posts: 41
Registered: ‎07-11-2011

Re: Chord based soloing

I do this a lot, but in blues rather than jazz. I'm not yet up to the mental task of (for example) coughing up an Eb11-5 chord in position 6 within the time allowed by 16th note triads... But I'm starting to get fairly proficient at finding 7th & 9th chord inversions of any key in any position in that manner, which works well for blues.
That's pretty much all you need. The chord forms I use are simple, and unless the chart I'm playing on has a lot of specific chord alterations called out, I just simplify to one of {maj7, dom7, min7, min7b5, dim7} and use that shape. After I "state" the tonality with that shape, I just let my ear guide my fingers to other tones, with the aim of nicely connecting to the next chord.
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Super Contributor
Virgman
Posts: 12,748
Registered: ‎02-02-2005

Re: Chord based soloing

Great replies, guys. Thanks!


"Molon labe!" -- King Leonidas I
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Super Contributor
Posts: 2,915
Registered: ‎08-19-2006

Re: Chord based soloing

I think I´m seeing some real development in my skill in connecting different chords when improvising over changes. At first, it tended to sound a bit `dry´, but nowadays my lines are a lot more melodic. If only I could play as well in jam sessions as I do in the comfort of my own home. I remember reading some Metheny interview where he said that learning to improvise using chord tones should be the first step of any improviser.

What kind of a hat would be best suited for playing jazz? :smileywink:
"Me and a book is a party. Me and a book and a cup of coffee is an orgy."
- Robert Fripp
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Super Contributor
JonR
Posts: 1,534
Registered: ‎07-19-2010

Re: Chord based soloing

I wasn't quite sure what you meant to start with by "chord-based soloing". I thought at first you meant chord-melody style (like Joe Pass), playing 2 or more notes at the same time. But now I'm guessing (from FatJeff's reply at least) that we're talking about basing your single-note lines off chords - chord tones and arps. If so, I've always done this right from the beginning and considered it a no-brainer (no offence, virg! :smileywink:). I never played "scales"; I'd begin by learning the chord progression (these would really simple in the early days of course!), and maybe the melody, and just work with that stuff: embellishing the chord tones with a few passing notes that sounded OK. Typically I'd end up with what I later found - many years later! - was the major pent of the root (or minor pent if it was a minor chord), plus some bluesy chromatic approach notes - because that was what I heard people on records doing. (People like Chuck Berry, that is, not any of those fancy jazz dudes I'd never heard of back then. First jazz player I copied was Django Reinhardt, and whaddya know, he was doing the same thing.) It wasn't hard, and it sounded right. Scales? Theory? Who needs that s***? :smileyhappy:
"The most important rule in music is you must always avoid discord. Use dat chord instead."
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Super Contributor
Virgman
Posts: 12,748
Registered: ‎02-02-2005

Re: Chord based soloing

Jon, Chord based soloing is like this: http://www.scribd.com/doc/387675/chord-based-solo FatJeff's Christian site is about this too. Very cool site. All these methods ultimately comeback to the same thing which is playing some combination of the 12 notes available in a melodically pleasing fashion. It's just a different mental approach to navigating.


"Molon labe!" -- King Leonidas I
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Super Contributor
JonR
Posts: 1,534
Registered: ‎07-19-2010

Re: Chord based soloing

What kind of a hat would be best suited for playing jazz? :smileywink:
Here's a fashion expert modelling a few options: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkHNkxzZp4k&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIkmNNmAnAM&feature=relmfu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EyotKt10pc (and a few more here in some passing photos) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI1tW-YykWQ #4 gets my vote. The beard is an optional extra.
"The most important rule in music is you must always avoid discord. Use dat chord instead."
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Super Contributor
Virgman
Posts: 12,748
Registered: ‎02-02-2005

Re: Chord based soloing

Dizzy has the style...


"Molon labe!" -- King Leonidas I
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Super Contributor
JonR
Posts: 1,534
Registered: ‎07-19-2010

Re: Chord based soloing

Chord based soloing is like this: http://www.scribd.com/doc/387675/chord-based-solo
Yes, that looks pretty much as I understand it. More advanced than I was doing when I was copping from Chuck, of course :rolleyes: but pretty much the way I play now (and have done for some time now): embellishing chords, playing occasional double or triple stops, and adding passing notes. Looks quite comforting to see the way I naturally play (after a few decades growing into it) plotted out neatly like that, as if it's a "method"! :smileywink: Damn, if only I'd copyrighted it....
"The most important rule in music is you must always avoid discord. Use dat chord instead."
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Super Contributor
JonR
Posts: 1,534
Registered: ‎07-19-2010

Re: Chord based soloing

Dizzy has the style...
Yes I was thinking of Dizzy too. Unfortunately not many others can make berets look cool. Some jazz fans combined it with a (shudder) roll-neck jumper... Just missed the point. Miles had the right attitude to fashion. Wayne Shorter tells a couple of stories. When he was first asked to join the band, Miles offered no musical advice; just "You got eyes? See my tailor." Years later, after Shorter had left Miles and was with Weather Report, he bumped into Miles backstage at a 70s gig. WS (who was wearing the hipster flares of the time) greeted his old friend warmly. All Miles said was "Pull your pants up, motherfucker."
"The most important rule in music is you must always avoid discord. Use dat chord instead."
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Frequent Contributor
Posts: 84
Registered: ‎03-09-2008

Re: Chord based soloing

Virg, What book in particular are you studying from?
CHEERS!
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Super Contributor
Virgman
Posts: 12,748
Registered: ‎02-02-2005

Re: Chord based soloing

Virg, What book in particular are you studying from?
I'm not studying from a book. I'm just taking the chord grips I use normally and combining them with underlying major scale notes. But I already know the chords and scales so that is not a problem. So if the progression is a 2-5-1 I take m7, V7 and M7 grips or subs and just keep messing around playing the chords and notes making good sounds. I use a standard jazz tune and improvise over it or play off the melody. Anything to make good sounds. Chords I use are lots of Drop 2 and some full jazz chords. I use the major scale and also passing tones. A good book for Drop 2 is Chapman's "Drop 2 Concept For Guitar" but of course you can find much on Drop 2 chords on the interwebs. http://www.amazon.com/Mel-Bay-Drop-Concept-Guitar/dp/0786644834?tag=duckduckgo-d-20


"Molon labe!" -- King Leonidas I
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Valued Contributor
1001gear
Posts: 19,029
Registered: ‎04-10-2006

Re: Chord based soloing

Dizzy has the style...
Two things rong with this picture. And what's that hat called? That is the correct jazz hat. Sadly it has come to mean, "The wearer thinks he's THERE and actually sucks."
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Super Contributor
Virgman
Posts: 12,748
Registered: ‎02-02-2005

Re: Chord based soloing

Two things rong with this picture. And what's that hat called? That is the correct jazz hat. Sadly it has come to mean, "The wearer thinks he's THERE and actually sucks."
The hat is called a beret of course. It has since been adopted by the military of many lands. The combination of beret and hair growth under the lower lip is a standard for jazz hipness and no one was hipper than the Diz. When I was a kid they were known as "beatniks". This was before the term "hippie" was invented. I never understood what "beatnik" meant at the time. B-E-A-T-nik. The "beat". Interesting. I recommend reading Dizzy Gillespies autobiography. He was a unique individual who grew up in some rapidly changing times. Gillespie was known for his excellent music reading ability. He was also a tough hombre in a fight.


"Molon labe!" -- King Leonidas I
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