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Super Contributor
Posts: 509
Registered: ‎09-01-2011

Insane

[ Edited ]

All suggestions welcomed. This is a rather dark song.

Insane
(c) 2013 Rick Dieffenbach and Jeanne Ferreira

When did the child, that he once had inside, settle down?
When did he learn, it was better to hide, then be found?
The bully boys, waiting to tear him up
While the clicky clicky girls spoke their clicky clucky, gossip

She used to play with her dolls and draw pictures, with smiles
Laughing and giggling at the sound of life, all around
Then one day, the smile was wiped from her face
And from that day forward, she lived in a very dark place

 

======================================

CHORUS:

People don’t care how they hurt you
They get their kicks from giving you pain
They'll take your self-worth, and desert you
you'll never be the same

They don't care
If they drive you insane they don't care

=======================================

 

BRIDGE:
If  I ran into the ones, who hurt, the ones I love
What would God above, want me to do?
Would she want me to forgive?
Would he want me to live and let live?

Or would she want me to break them all in two?

 [INSTRUMENTAL]

 [CHORUS]

 

Rick Dieffenbach | "Now and then... occasionally... it seems to have.... too many notes"

www.RickDieffenbach.com | Florida, USA
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Super Contributor
Posts: 687
Registered: ‎05-30-2011

Re: Insane

Wow, where to start?  Lots going on...

In general, I like the Pink Floyd meets Beatles musical vibe.  The somewhat unconventional, rambling song structure helps build the insanity theme, but I felt like the song dragged on a little long because of it.

I like the first verse except for the clicky clicky girls line.  That whole line fell flat for me, especially the attempt to rhyme "gossip" with "up."  I'd rewrite that line entirely.  Otherwise, I think verse 1 is good.

Verse two, on the other hand, doesn't work for me.  The switch from the boy's story to the girl's story was too abrubt, and the words in that verse are too generic and bland.  The verse doesn't really tell a story, it just says she was happy, then all of a sudden she wasn't.  I suggest scrapping that verse and replacing it with something that continues the boy's story.

I found the words in the chorus to be too much of a straight-forward sermon.  But that might just be me.

I like the bridge words, especially the reference to god as a "she."  That little bit of unconventionality contributes to the slightly off-kilter feel of the song.  However, I would keep "she" throughout.  The one line where you say "he" just sounds like you couldn't make up your mind.  The concept of a hermaphroditic Almighty is just a little too far out there for me.  Hey, hermaphroditic Almighty would be a good name for a band...

I love the guitar solo.  It's nothing fancy, but I think it fits the song well.

Beware of deepities.
-- Daniel Dennett
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Super Contributor
Oswlek
Posts: 3,970
Registered: ‎12-16-2009

Re: Insane

[ Edited ]

Very cool.  The bridge and interlude are astoundingly good and you took a serious vocal risk in the chorus, which I think panned out.

 

I agree with Monkey about the "gossip" line.  I also think you need to be careful about how you phrase the 3rd and 4th lines, because they sound like you are really going out of your way to have the final word come down on the same beat as the weird instrument.  Listen to the the first line of stanza two ("smiles") and hear how natural that sounds, then do the same for the "gossip" line for what I mean.  There is no reason why you can't just sing the up/gossip line more naturally and end the word a hair before the first down beat of the next measure.  I think the variance might actualy enhance the song.

 

Another idea that popped into my head is to drop off the 4th line of each stanza.  Harkening back to the Pat Pattison threads, this tune is the epitome of unstable, so an odd number of lines would subtly contribute to the sense of dismay by not giving the listener the closure they expect.  Not only that, but it would get to the chorus a little quicker (solving the problem Monkey mentioned) and drop the weakest lines in both stanzas.

 

I notice a mild disconnect between the and verses as well.  Believe me, I am fully aware of bullying and the scars it leaves, but they don't really "desert you" because they were never really with you in the first place.  Unless, of course, that you are refering to friendships with more subtle bullying (I have experience with that, too) but you really didn't draw that picture in the first two stanzas.

 

Really cool tune, Rick.  Glad to see you stopping by again.

Don't listen to Justin.
LCK - 2/21/2012
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Moderator
Lee Knight
Posts: 20,349
Registered: ‎07-13-2005

Re: Insane

[ Edited ]

Wow, this is wild. Cool wild. It hits more than it misses for me, but there are a few sizable misses that are easy fixes in my book. This, as always, is take it or leave. Ideas and reactions are free. I can't help myself. :smileyhappy: Here's what I'd do...

 

I'd stay with the boy. It's too much of that shopping list feel. We get that these are two scenarios that point to the chorus, but... and we all do this, when a song jumps from scenario to scenario, from character to character, it isn't as clever as we hope. Stay with the boy. I personally loved the clicky cluck line but I'd boot the word gossip and try something like whispering behind their hands, etc. or... they cheer on the bully boys. That's evil.

 

Then... this is a big one, I'd drop the insane angle. What?!?!?! I actually think the song's called...

 

People Don't Care

 

People don’t care how they hurt you
They get their kicks from giving you pain
They'll take your self worth and desert you
you'll never be the same

People don't care!

People don't care!

 

The jump to "insane" is a stretch. The music implying he's being driven insane is genius! He's losing it at the hands of cruel bastards. The world and all its residents is cruel. I love it, we all feel that from time to time. This boy's growing up with it sadly. But "insane", the word, quantifies it too much.

 

People don't care! They're selfish, mean dicks!!!!!!!! All to that music? I think that nails the point nicely

 

I'm not crazy about "self worth". It's too clinical and sounds a bit pop psychology. Something along the lines of They'll take what's left of you and desert you". Something more visceral and mean. Rip your heart right out of your chest. Anyhoo...

 

I really love where you're going with this. The music is whack, Jack. Very cool.

“The truth is the whole.”

- Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel

"It is easier to discover a deficiency in individuals, in states, and in Providence (and in pop songs), than to see their real import and value."

- Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel
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Super Contributor
LCK
Posts: 4,459
Registered: ‎02-03-2011

Re: Insane

[ Edited ]

Oswlek wrote:

I agree with Monkey about the "gossip" line.  I also think you need to be careful about how you phrase the 3rd and 4th lines, because they sound like you are really going out of your way to have the final word come down on the same beat as the weird instrument.  Listen to the the first line of stanza two ("smiles") and hear how natural that sounds, then do the same for the "gossip" line for what I mean.  There is no reason why you can't just sing the up/gossip line more naturally and end the word a hair before the first down beat of the next measure.  I think the variance might actualy enhance the song.

Really cool tune, Rick.  Glad to see you stopping by again.


I agree.

I've noticed that whenever you have reservations about a line or phrase you "speak-sing" it, or kind of toss it away, vocally.

I hesitate to make further comment on the lyric since the lyricist isn't a participant in this forum. That said, I tend to agree with Lee Knight's points.

Love the bass, by the way. LOVE IT!

"I wrote a song but I can't read music so I don't know how it goes.'" – Steven Wright

"Music is math." Neil Young

"Where the hell is Larry?" – Richard Rodgers
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Super Contributor
Oswlek
Posts: 3,970
Registered: ‎12-16-2009

Re: Insane

I can dig everything the Lee's said, but I still think you should consider just dropping the 4th verse lines entirely. 

Don't listen to Justin.
LCK - 2/21/2012
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Super Contributor
Posts: 509
Registered: ‎09-01-2011

Re: Insane

[ Edited ]

Monkey, Oswlek, Lee, LCK,

Thanks fellows.

Based on your comments, I *finally* “got it” about the change in storys from verse 1 to verse 2.  I had done that on a different song recently as well, and at that time, I did not understand why it was an issue. But the light bulb went on now. Thank you.

So Jeanne and I are looking at expanding the story on one of the characters and dropping the 2nd one, although, we are leaning to the one about the girl with sexual abuse over the bullied kid. And there will be many changes to the wording. Thank you for the suggestions, like LCK’s “speak-sing” comment and revising gossip.

Oswlek – good point, “Desert” becomes “Berate”.

Lee’s suggestion about going straight for “people don’t care” throughout he chorus was enlightening, and Jeanne agrees with this suggestion instead of the overt use of “insane”. So we are looking at that.  Note that with a theme of sexual abuse, I wanted the chorus to echo the profound impact that that has on a person, almost driving some insane. But I do think the chorus can be stronger without the direct use of it. Sort of “less is more”. Thank you Lee.

Monkey I actually had “she” reference to God in an earlier version throughout the bridge. Jeanne suggested a balance by mixing “he” in.  And I thought by mixing “he” and “she” it might add to the drama of the bridge. And I think it does.  It is ever so mildly annoying, eh? :smileyhappy:

Monkey – thanks for the comments on the guitar solo. In the version you heard , I did not have the 2nd half of the solo.  The guitar solo is my electric guitar, mega distorted. Now, I have added in the left channel an associated single violin melody that in some ways runs counter to the guitar.  The thinking, probably only in my mind, is that the pure violin represents the innocence of the child and the counter distorted guitar is the child after abuse and as he or she grows up. The music has somehow changed in the heart because of the abuse. There is a profound loss.

Oswlek your idea about dropping line 4 from each verse. I created an mp3 and then snipped out line 4. So here is a 1 min demo of that. I LIKE the annoyance that it creates. The wholesome and balanced 4 line verses don’t have that. And in this song that’s a plus.  But I am not sure it doesn’t come across too rough… like a mistake.  What do you think?  Here is the mp3.

LCK – Thanks for your comments. Jeanne and I are working most songs together, except the song I created to propose to her! Sometimes she is writing the lyrics and I edit, other times visa versa.  What you see above was primarily me at this point, although the next version will be 80% Jeanne lyric wise. So it is perfect appropriate to comment on the lyrics for any song I post.  Jeanne does view comments on the board and may choose to post at some point. She is registered on the board.

And thank you LCK on your praise about the bass. I LOVE my Hofner bass. It just begs to be played like that. I never knew an instrument could tell me how it wants to be played but that Hofner does.

 

Thank you all!!!

My life has been crazy-good lately. Getting my house ready for sale. Moving to Florida Yeah! I will try to comment more on the songs.

Rick

Rick Dieffenbach | "Now and then... occasionally... it seems to have.... too many notes"

www.RickDieffenbach.com | Florida, USA
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Super Contributor
Oswlek
Posts: 3,970
Registered: ‎12-16-2009

Re: Insane

Rick, your mp3 confirms my belief in the idea, it is only the execution that is off. 

 

On the first two lines, you tack on a weird sound at the end of each line.  Do that again for line three (though perhaps playing a different note since you change the chords), and don't bring in the kick until after that measure.  It is the abrupt start of the full percussion that makes it sound strange, not the dropping of the 4th line.

Don't listen to Justin.
LCK - 2/21/2012
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Super Contributor
LCK
Posts: 4,459
Registered: ‎02-03-2011

Re: Insane


rickidoo wrote:

LCK – Thanks for your comments. Jeanne and I are working most songs together, except the song I created to propose to her! Sometimes she is writing the lyrics and I edit, other times visa versa.  What you see above was primarily me at this point, although the next version will be 80% Jeanne lyric wise. So it is perfect appropriate to comment on the lyrics for any song I post.  Jeanne does view comments on the board and may choose to post at some point. She is registered on the board.


Okay, cool. It'll be nice to meet her.

"I wrote a song but I can't read music so I don't know how it goes.'" – Steven Wright

"Music is math." Neil Young

"Where the hell is Larry?" – Richard Rodgers
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