Songwriting Workshop

[xtianmind]

I'm having trouble writing lyrics first. The reason I want to get in the habit of writing lyrics first is because my work space is limited. Meaning I can spend more time writing lyrics than writing melodies. So if I advance in my lyrics writing I can probably have more written songs faster, and I can take it to a keyboard and try and create the melody when time permits. I live in an apartment where rooms are shared, and walls are very thin. Do you guys have a strategy to write melodies without bugging anyone. Like with headphones. Thanks.

What are your methods to writing lyrics first? How do you follow a meter pattern? Do you write them to ghost songs? Any tips would be helpful, and would greatly push me forward.

I love you guys, and love this community of wonderful people with similar goals as me.

Thank you in advance.

[triq]

I usually start with a couple of chords on the piano. Then I start humming a melody. Then I write lyrics for the melody.

[xtianmind]

Originally Posted by triq

I usually start with a couple of chords on the piano. Then I start humming a melody. Then I write lyrics for the melody.

I wonder if you read my Original post. hehe

[triq]

Originally Posted by xtianmind

I wonder if you read my Original post. hehe

I did. Your question was, "What are your methods to writing lyrics first?"

My answer was, "I don't."

[xtianmind]

Very Useful. Thank you <3

[triq]

Originally Posted by xtianmind

Very Useful. Thank you <3

Whatever use you find in it is solely up to you, not me <3

[RickDieffenbach]

Originally Posted by xtianmind

I'm having trouble writing lyrics first. The reason I want to get in the habit of writing lyrics first is because my work space is limited. Meaning I can spend more time writing lyrics than writing melodies. So if I advance in my lyrics writing I can probably have more written songs faster, and I can take it to a keyboard and try and create the melody when time permits. I live in an apartment where rooms are shared, and walls are very thin. Do you guys have a strategy to write melodies without bugging anyone. Like with headphones. Thanks.

What are your methods to writing lyrics first? How do you follow a meter pattern? Do you write them to ghost songs? Any tips would be helpful, and would greatly push me forward.

I love you guys, and love this community of wonderful people with similar goals as me.

Thank you in advance.

Xtain - I know there are many people who write lyrics first. And those who write the music first. And those that do both at the same time. There is no set way. It's very individual.

But my response to your post is this... you may be one of the lucky ones who can write lyrics first, or can do both, etc. And that is great. But if your inclination is to do melody and music first, going the lyric only way might be counterproductive.

I recently went on a trip. I installed a tiny piano app in my phone. Just something so I could hear tones. While I did not write a song on it, I did work on a melody when i had some spare moments. So really, space in this day and age should not be an issue with a little tiny investment money wise.

Just my 2 cents.
Rick

[Oswlek]

As I am fumbling my way through the melody, I find that I'll spontaneously come out with a line or two that illuminate the direction of the song. From there it is simply a matter of mentally developing the scene and honing it all into shape.

[rangefinder]

Originally Posted by xtianmind

What are your methods to writing lyrics first?

Generally, when I want to write some lyrics, what I do is sit down and write some lyrics.

How do you follow a meter pattern?

I tap my big toe on the ground.

Do you write them to ghost songs?

I don't know what "ghost songs" are.

Any tips would be helpful, and would greatly push me forward.

Depending on the nature of the song, I generally want to get some sense of the melody early in the process, since that will help me find words and phrases that fit together well and are reasonably "singable".

So I ponder my song topic for a while, find a hook ASAP, put some notes to it, and build from there. Usually hook, then chorus, then verses, then bridge, than any intro/outro/turnarounds.

But there are times I've written most of the lyrics to a song without really worrying about the melody at all. It just depends.

[dramey]

I write lyrics without music all the time, however, I can't write them without a melody. Fortunately lyrics sort of jump in to my brain with one attached. Then it is just a matter of finding chords to play underneath, or if I'm really lucky I'll find they fit over something I have already been noodling around with.

I write most of my stuff when I'm working, as it is the type of job I don't need my brain for. Mostly I just sing them in my head until I get home and can can pick up a guitar. I seldom ever work out a melody, the first thing that jumps in to my head is usually how the melody is going to go when I record it.

I wasn't always capable of writing in my head, it took some time to learn, but now I can't stop it, my brain is always on the lookout for lyrics. So my advice is that like everything else, practice is the only thing that will get you there.

[blue2blue]

I tend to get an idea, sometimes with a guitar in my hand, sometimes not, sometimes when I'm listening to someone else's music, and then, to the extent the ideas/words flow, I may write much of the lyric without accompaniment. (That said, if inspiration flags, I'll pick up a guitar or sit down at a piano-style keyboard and hack something under it to get some momentum. For me, writing the lyrics is the struggle, and music tends to be something of an afterthought. (Mind you, that is probably reflected in my music. I'm not Paul McCartney. )

Writing lyrics to a 'ghost' song can be effective, as well. I suspect many who are strictly lyricists may do this as a matter of course, when they aren't writing for a specific collaboration. The main thing I watch for is unconsciously picking up bits of original lyric or accidentally absorbing the other guy's melody.

[oldgitplayer]

I'm not interested in writing songs unless there is a real idea, so before going through the crafting process, I like to write out the idea in short sentence prose. No meter, no rhyme - just explore the idea.
Then when I review the material, if I think there is potential for a song, I'll pick the lines that will form the title and chorus.

While shaping these, I ensure the word rhythms are there, and the accents fall on the right words.
Everything follows from there.

[kurdy]

Most portable keyboards come with volume controls. I don’t see any reason why writing a melody would have to mean waking up an entire house. Get one of those cheap handheld recorders if you need to keep track of your musical ideas.

I’m primarily a lyrics-first writer by choice, mostly because I enjoy doing it that way. As I’m writing lyrics, I’ll "rap" them aloud, experimenting with different meters and rhythmic combinations for the words, which can be a lot of fun. By the time I sit at an instrument and play different chords, I’ll already have a sense of what meters will work for the various lines, which makes it easier to find the melody.

[A Happy Crowd]

Sometimes I write lyrics first. If I have no idea what the melody will be but have an idea for lyrics, I just start writing words while thinking them out in my head so I can "hear" what the rhythm is and then try to keep the subsequent words to the same rhythm. It involves a lot of repeating the same words over and over, trying to get all of the lines to flow rhythmically almost as if it's a poem. Then later on, when I have music (and maybe a melody) I'll go back through my music-less lyrics to see if I can fit them to the music.

It's probably an even mix for me which gets written first: words or music, but I find my lyrics first songs tend to have much better lyrics than music whereas my music first songs tend to have more interesting music than lyrics.

[Lee Knight]

Writing lyrics first. I do it a lot lately. Lately, as in the past couple years or so. As some have already pointed out, when you work at a desk job with the computer, it can go hand-in-hand with documenting your song ideas. Why not go lyrics first?

The problem can be, writing some "great" lines that mean a lot on paper but have no musical value, or the musical value ends up being very pedestrian and stock.

Why?

For me, the reason has been a reliance on symmetrical patterns. We start writing and our personal, limited experience with doing it this way results in little nursery rhymes with adult themes.

So I dug into studying the lyrics of Ira Gershwin, Bob Dylan and Cole Porter. And I began searching for the patterns. The patterns or deviations from symmetry. Set up an expectation and either deliver too soon or stall promised resolution of the phrase. Or deliver as expected this one time.

Because the Rockies make crumble

Gibraltar may tumble

They're only made of clay but

Our love is here to stay

[saturn1]

Originally Posted by Lee Knight

The problem can be, writing some "great" lines that mean a lot on paper but have no musical value, or the musical value ends up being very pedestrian and stock.

Why?

For me, the reason has been a reliance on symmetrical patterns. We start writing and our personal, limited experience with doing it this way results in little nursery rhymes with adult themes.

This is a pretty accurate description of my frustration explained, as usual, much more succinctly than I would or could have. A lot of my writing starts with a phrase. One that has either an inherent rhythm that I like, an ambiguous enough meaning that it can be developed in more than one way or, in the best of circumstances, both. In this approach, however, I do seem to gravitate to basic meter and structure. This may well be because in the absence of melody a defined and repetitive rhythm and rhyme provides the feeling of 'song'. I guess the risk is that it may also provide the less positive feeling of 'sing song.'

A New Year's resolution - the next song I start this way I will consciously strive to move past the first easy rhythm and rhyme structure that occurs to me and see if I like the result better.