Songwriting Workshop

[LordBTY]

Here's a song idea I've had. The verse is pretty weak at the moment so I don't want to show it to anyone, but I'm wondering if anyone is able to poke at any weaknesses in these lyrics at all? I'll do a recording for it when I'm a little more happy with it.

Note: the 'coo ca choo' is a lot like a 'na na na' or 'woaaah'


Chorus

Am C Em

Destiny's quite depressing

Am C G7

You're glued to a path, no matter what you do.

. F C G7 Gaug G7

You're glued to a path, no matter what you do....


C G7


No no matter what I do, coo ca choo


Csus4 CMaj7 G F C A


But I will believe, as hope gives me comfort.


E7 Am C Am C

that I'm destined to be , destined to be


Em Eaug E7 Am C

to be........ with you, you will see


Bridge

Am C

yes, you will see

F G7

you'll see

C G7

No, no matter what I do, coo ca choo

Verse



Csus4 Cm7 G F C A


Au revoir to burden 'cause hope clouds our minds

Dm Asus4 A Dm G7

I'm for certain, we are still for certain coo-ca-choo-choo-choo


Csus4 Cm7 G F C A

Au... revoir to burden yes, rose tints our eyes

Dm Asus4 A Dm E7

I'm determined we are still determined.....coo-ca-choo-choo-choo


(Chorus)


Verse 2



Csus4 Cm7 G F C A


Au revoir to burden 'cause hope clouds my mind

Dm Asus4 A Dm G7

I'm for certain, our paths will be merging, coo-ca-choo-choo-choo


Csus4 Cm7 G F C A

Au... revoir to burden yes, rose tints my eyes

Dm Asus4 A Dm A7

I'm determined to stop all this hurting coo-ca-choo-choo-choo



Middle Eight


Dm Asus4 A

I will escape with you

Dm Asus4 A

I know this to be true

Dm Asus4 A

No matter what I do-a-hoo


Dm Asus4 A

Security will soothe

Dm Asus A

Rose will tint my eyes and mind

A7 E7

I need... you all the time coo-ca-choo-choo-choo


Chorus



End

C A7 G7 Em Eaug E7 A... D.... A

[oldgitplayer]

Originally Posted by LordBTY

I'm wondering if anyone is able to poke at any weaknesses in these lyrics at all?

Yes - I will quarrel with them.

I'm all for weaving the idea of destiny into a relationship song, but you are using it in a fatalistic manner. A fixed set path, no matter what I do
So I'm not sure whether you want to be fatalistic, with no freedom of action whatsoever, or you want to use the word destiny as a direction (or destination) towards which we move, but have the free will to make a change in direction.

This might sound a bit high-brow philosophy for a songwriting forum, but I think the nature of the lyric may be better if it were less wooly (fatalistic).

[RickDieffenbach]

Any chance of a quick demo with vocal?

[Lee Knight]

This is my second visit to these lyrics. At first I had a reaction very much like OGP's. But now.... it strikes me how cool the twist of the concept is. He believes in destiny. But he wants to be with someone. So he'll bend the logic and then believe that his destiny must therefore be... to be with that person. It's kinda odd but at the same time kind of speaks to how we'll adjust out our beliefs based on what suits us.

I think it's clever.

[blue2blue]

Originally Posted by oldgitplayer

Yes - I will quarrel with them.

I'm all for weaving the idea of destiny into a relationship song, but you are using it in a fatalistic manner. A fixed set path, no matter what I do
So I'm not sure whether you want to be fatalistic, with no freedom of action whatsoever, or you want to use the word destiny as a direction (or destination) towards which we move, but have the free will to make a change in direction.

This might sound a bit high-brow philosophy for a songwriting forum, but I think the nature of the lyric may be better if it were less wooly (fatalistic).

Well, without trying to psychoanalyze anyone, I'm thinking he may be writing from the emotional perspective of someone who feels he has come to intellectual grips with deterministic causality and now must try to find a way to move forward emotionally in a world where will and even desire seem illusory and effort seems futile. That's not a philosophy problem -- it's a life problem, an existential quandry.

That said, I didn't feel engaged at all by the lyric as it stands. It's a bit too plaintive and flat footed. Coo ca choo notwithstanding.

(Although, for me, personally, as a person, dealing with the aforementioned dilemma, absurdism did seem like the most appropriate response, at least for a while. Ultimately I took my subsequent decline into apathy as a practical refutation of lockstep destiny. Intellectually, I've got no real ammo arguing for the existence of something akin to what most folks probably think of when they invoke the notion of free will, but I found that it was for me, perhaps paradoxically, a useful conceit. As fate would have it. )

[oldgitplayer]

Originally Posted by blue2blue

deterministic causality....even desire seem illusory and effort seems futile......existential quandry........practical refutation of lockstep destiny.

Why are there no more songs about his Rocket 88?......

[LordBTY]

Wow, I'm surprised by the response.

I shall upload a quick demo in a couple of days (probably on Tuesday.)

The idea is that destiny is quite depressing in that it strips a person of free will - a fixed set path, no matter what one does. This is could be a bit shit if one was destined to have a crappy life. However, I saw a really attractive girl a couple of times in the city I'm living - ran into her a weird amount of times. I joked around with my mates that it was destiny (she was pretty infatuating.) I'm not enough of a creeper to have fallen in love with this girl and of course I don't believe in destiny, but the emotional comfort of knowing one is destined to be with another no matter what is quite tempting.

So I wrote a chorus for it - the verses and middle eight get a bit darker. I've put them partially in D minor (subdominant key) to create a huge melodramatic chorus.

[rsadasiv]

It's a tough concept to write around. I like the chord progression on paper, and the lyric is well executed, but I think the central conceit of a fixed destiny will make this a difficult song to write and a difficult song to sell to an audience. I worked on a song with a similar conceit and eventually had to put it aside because it wound up making me depressed.

[grace_slick]

Originally Posted by blue2blue

That said, I didn't feel engaged at all by the lyric as it stands. It's a bit too plaintive and flat footed. Coo ca choo notwithstanding.

Is "Coo ca choo" even allowed to be used, after I Am the Walrus? lol (or was that "Coo coo ca jube"?)

[oldgitplayer]

The male walrus call is goo goo ga joob - and the female walrus response is coo coo ca choo.

[grace_slick]

OMG, GOO GOO GA JOOB. How could I get so CONFUSED!? lol *slapping self in the head*

[rsadasiv]

Originally Posted by rsadasiv

It's a tough concept to write around. I like the chord progression on paper, and the lyric is well executed, but I think the central conceit of a fixed destiny will make this a difficult song to write and a difficult song to sell to an audience. I worked on a song with a similar conceit and eventually had to put it aside because it wound up making me depressed.

FWIW, here's the thread on that song...

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/...ng-to-Fruition

[rhino55]

On first and second read I agreed with Oldgit. After Lee's post I went back a third time and could see where he was coming from. In order for it to work, I think you need another verse, or maybe a chorus, that goes to a 'maybe destiny isn't so bad if it's spent with you' kind of place.


Destiny's quite depressing
A fixed set path, no matter what I do.
A fixed set path, no matter what I do....
No no matter what I do, coo ca choo

But I will believe, as hope clouds our minds
that I'm destined to be , destined to be
to be........ with you, you will see

yes, you will see
you'll see....
No no matter what I do coo ca choo

[Oswlek]

Originally Posted by grace_slick

OMG, GOO GOO GA JOOB. How could I get so CONFUSED!? lol *slapping self in the head*

Still far too similar if that "coo ca joo" stands out melodically, unless you are intentionally making a tip of the cap.

[LordBTY]

Haven't quite got a vocal demo up yet (it's pretty tricky to play but I'll get it) however, that's the full lyrical work.