Originally Posted by rsadasiv
I don't know how many times I have tried to implement a change that should work better only to go back to the original that had that feeling of spontaneity and emotion. Nothing will take those away with more certainty than......22 takes.
Don't listen to Justin.
Listen to Justin instead.
I just went back and listened to the first version...the ORIGINAL. I LOVE the way you sing those lines. Love it. You fit your voice around those long notes so well. That is how this song should be sung.
Can't believe the liberties I took with it.
In fact.....the whole song sounds great in that take. Not sure how I would even suggest changing anything, except maybe the timing of that second guitar's entry....and that nit is too small to be picked.
Start another one.
Originally Posted by LeonardScaper
I just went back and listened to the first version...the ORIGINAL. I LOVE the way you sing those lines. Love it. You fit your voice around those long notes so well. That is how this song should be sung.
Can't believe the liberties I took with it.
In fact.....the whole song sounds great in that take. Not sure how I would even suggest changing anything, except maybe the timing of that second guitar's entry....and that nit is too small to be picked.
Start another one.
So... I'm looking to do one more thing to it (in addition to solid vocal takes)... and that is to add a more meaningful guitar solo before the current one... I've recruited a guy I play with in a local band who is just a fantastic and tasteful guitar player. Really looking forward to hearing what he can do with it... Oswlek's idea, which I'm eager to try, is to solo out of Chorus #2 and resolve into the current bridge (which is currently my lame guitar playing). I'm thinking that current bridge can be dynamic though... the peak of the solo with the change of chords and that melodic line as the resolve.
Dude, I've listened to this song no less than a hundred times in the past week, and I'm not remotely sick of it. My daughter has even memorized it because it is playing nearly every time we drive anywhere. 
Anyway, now that I've totally immersed myself in it, I feel more strongly than ever that the new solo isn't quite right. I'm sorry to be a pain in the ass, but the original just flows 100X better. Every time I listen to the new one I have to prepare myself or else it totally breaks the flow for me.
If this song weren't so damn good, I'd just drop it already (same deal with "She Refused") but this isn't just professional quality stuff, it is historical quality stuff. It is as good as anything in Lennon or Gilmour's catalogs. Anything. I want to see it the best it can be.
Monkey Uncle wrote:
bee3 wrote:Thanks Justin. I'd really love to hear other's opinions on this... because I'm pretty sold on it as is.
The solo in question: https://soundcloud.com/justind/certain-company
Sorry, Os, but I prefer the current solo over the original. The original just repeats the same melodic phrase over and over, which gets old for me. The current one is a better composition and has better guitar tone, IMHO. That said, there are a few notes toward the end that I don't care for. Not sure what's going on there theoretically, but the notes sound out of key to my ear. Still, though, I think it's a very good solo, and I think Bee is right to be happy with it the way it is.
First off, why am I not surprised that you disagree with me, Monkey?
That said, you are missing my point (or I didn't make it clear 
). I'm not talking about which solo is better, I'm talking about which layout flows better. In Bee's original a new underlying chord progression appears with the arrival of the solo, which gives the song a strong lift. In the newer version, it repeats the verse and chorus before finally hitting the lift, and for me it drags because of it.
It would be very easy to make the older one more interesting while keeping that arrangement. You could even keep Bee's current simple line and add a few more pieces of flair to it, perhaps as a call-response sort of thing. Then. you could add the new solo to the end of the song as a restart coda thing.
Edit: with Stick's response it appears I'm comfortably in the minority, but I feel real strong about this.
Oswlek wrote:
Monkey Uncle wrote:
bee3 wrote:Thanks Justin. I'd really love to hear other's opinions on this... because I'm pretty sold on it as is.
The solo in question: https://soundcloud.com/justind/certain-company
Sorry, Os, but I prefer the current solo over the original. The original just repeats the same melodic phrase over and over, which gets old for me. The current one is a better composition and has better guitar tone, IMHO. That said, there are a few notes toward the end that I don't care for. Not sure what's going on there theoretically, but the notes sound out of key to my ear. Still, though, I think it's a very good solo, and I think Bee is right to be happy with it the way it is.First off, why am I not surprised that you disagree with me, Monkey?
That said, you are missing my point (or I didn't make it clear
It would be very easy to make the older one more interesting while keeping that arrangement. You could even keep Bee's current simple line and add a few more pieces of flair to it, perhaps as a call-response sort of thing. Then. you could add the new solo to the end of the song as a restart coda thing.
Edit: with Stick's response it appears I'm comfortably in the minority, but I feel real strong about this.
Oh! I was just talking about the solo itself, not what it does to the song - oops!
Will have a proper isten to both later now I have read properly what you are suggesting!
Oswlek wrote:
Monkey Uncle wrote:
bee3 wrote:Thanks Justin. I'd really love to hear other's opinions on this... because I'm pretty sold on it as is.
The solo in question: https://soundcloud.com/justind/certain-company
Sorry, Os, but I prefer the current solo over the original. The original just repeats the same melodic phrase over and over, which gets old for me. The current one is a better composition and has better guitar tone, IMHO. That said, there are a few notes toward the end that I don't care for. Not sure what's going on there theoretically, but the notes sound out of key to my ear. Still, though, I think it's a very good solo, and I think Bee is right to be happy with it the way it is.First off, why am I not surprised that you disagree with me, Monkey?
That said, you are missing my point (or I didn't make it clear
It would be very easy to make the older one more interesting while keeping that arrangement. You could even keep Bee's current simple line and add a few more pieces of flair to it, perhaps as a call-response sort of thing. Then. you could add the new solo to the end of the song as a restart coda thing.
Edit: with Stick's response it appears I'm comfortably in the minority, but I feel real strong about this.
O.K., now I get what you're saying. I didn't read back far enough in the previous comments to catch the drift of the issue.
Still, it doesn't bother me. In fact, I think I still prefer the current version. In the original, that strong chord movement seems to be what is guiding the solo into its repetitive pattern. Even in the current version, when the progression finally changes, the solo goes into a melodic pattern that apes the chord progression pretty closely. It doesn't bother me for that short period of time, but if did that for the whole solo, I'd get bored with it.
Again, I should emphasize that I am not a lead guitar player, and I'm probably talking out of my ass here. I'd like to hear what some real guitar players think (not that I'm implying that Os, Bee, and Stick aren't real guitar players...er, remove foot from mouth...).
Monkey Uncle wrote:
Oswlek wrote:
Monkey Uncle wrote:
bee3 wrote:Thanks Justin. I'd really love to hear other's opinions on this... because I'm pretty sold on it as is.
The solo in question: https://soundcloud.com/justind/certain-company
Sorry, Os, but I prefer the current solo over the original. The original just repeats the same melodic phrase over and over, which gets old for me. The current one is a better composition and has better guitar tone, IMHO. That said, there are a few notes toward the end that I don't care for. Not sure what's going on there theoretically, but the notes sound out of key to my ear. Still, though, I think it's a very good solo, and I think Bee is right to be happy with it the way it is.First off, why am I not surprised that you disagree with me, Monkey?
That said, you are missing my point (or I didn't make it clear
It would be very easy to make the older one more interesting while keeping that arrangement. You could even keep Bee's current simple line and add a few more pieces of flair to it, perhaps as a call-response sort of thing. Then. you could add the new solo to the end of the song as a restart coda thing.
Edit: with Stick's response it appears I'm comfortably in the minority, but I feel real strong about this.
O.K., now I get what you're saying. I didn't read back far enough in the previous comments to catch the drift of the issue.
Still, it doesn't bother me. In fact, I think I still prefer the current version. In the original, that strong chord movement seems to be what is guiding the solo into its repetitive pattern. Even in the current version, when the progression finally changes, the solo goes into a melodic pattern that apes the chord progression pretty closely. It doesn't bother me for that short period of time, but if did that for the whole solo, I'd get bored with it.
Again, I should emphasize that I am not a lead guitar player, and I'm probably talking out of my ass here. I'd like to hear what some real guitar players think (not that I'm implying that Os, Bee, and Stick aren't real guitar players...er, remove foot from mouth...).
I am most defintely NOT a real guitar player, having said that I am not sure htat the issue here is with the guitar playing at all. I think Os is talking about song structure/holding attention and most importantly what is benefitting the song the most, regardless of the skill involved
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