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Regular Contributor
Posts: 248
Registered: ‎02-26-2012

Mic suggestions

cant get the same tone in logic using model amps and effects. Some suggestions on an affordable mic to do basic guitar tracks and vocals would be much appreciated.
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Valued Contributor
ambient
Posts: 8,450
Registered: ‎09-14-2006

Re: Mic suggestions

Sure SM57 is pretty standard for guitars and can do a decent vocal.
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Contributor
Posts: 36
Registered: ‎11-23-2011

Re: Mic suggestions

Quote Originally Posted by ambient View Post
Sure SM57 is pretty standard for guitars and can do a decent vocal.
I wouldn't go as far as 'decent' as a vocal mic but yeah, it's great for guitar cabs.


The MXL R144 is nice, or better still a Cascade Fathead. Ribbon mics are warm and smooth, not the same 'hifi' sound as a condenser, but can get wonderful results for both vocals and electric guitar if done right.
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Super Contributor
mister natural
Posts: 2,512
Registered: ‎03-07-2007

Re: Mic suggestions

huge fan here of the Shure Beta 57a
an expert on what it feels like to be me
& you are who you google

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Super Contributor
Posts: 3,913
Registered: ‎10-08-2006

Re: Mic suggestions

My favorite is a beyerdynamic m201, about six inches off the grill.
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Regular Contributor
The EAKLE
Posts: 173
Registered: ‎01-20-2013

Re: Mic suggestions

I use an MXL 990 for my vocals and most of my guitar stuff. Works great for acoustics. I've also got a MXL 991 that i use for some guitar parts, and ive been palying with using both of them together for somt dynamic micing.

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Super Contributor
Special J
Posts: 4,495
Registered: ‎01-03-2008

Re: Mic suggestions

I'll have to vote for the SM57 here as well. Not my favorite for either application, but will do the job in either, and is probably a good first mic to own. I would consider a Sennheiser 906 too. Great guitar mic, and it would probably make a pretty decent vocal mic too.

Interesting call on the Beyer m201. My favorite snare mic. Kind of like a fuller sounding SM57, so it would probably do pretty well in this application too. Almost three times the cost of an SM57, though.
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Contributor
rishabhsachan
Posts: 36
Registered: ‎01-17-2013

Mic suggestions

use  MXL R144 is nice, or better still a Cascade Fathead.

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Super Contributor
Posts: 9,663
Registered: ‎03-12-2006

Re: Mic suggestions

i know you said "affordable", but what's your budget?

and what preamp(s) are you using?

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Super Contributor
Kid Klash
Posts: 4,950
Registered: ‎11-08-2002

Re: Mic suggestions

Another vote for the Shure SM-57.  Less than $100 new; pretty much the defacto mic for guitar amps; and has been used for many, many vocal tracks (including many recorded by Paul McCartney).  :manwink:

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Super Contributor
Tomm Williams
Posts: 2,540
Registered: ‎12-21-2009

Re: Mic suggestions

Another candidate would be the EV 308/408's. Very useful little mics, much like a 57.  

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Trusted Contributor
Rudolf von Hagenwil
Posts: 27,634
Registered: ‎08-09-2005

Re: Mic suggestions

Apex 460 $180, also sold under brand name Carvin CTM100 Tube Condenser
MCA SP1 Large Diaphragm Studio Condenser $70
Behringer C-1 $49
AKG Perception 120 $99

FAT HEAD Short Ribbon Microphone $399

Audio-Technica Pro 37 $129

and many more,  all nicer sonics then a SM57

 

.... and show me an image where Paul McCartney records vocals or bass with a SM57.

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Trusted Contributor
Rudolf von Hagenwil
Posts: 27,634
Registered: ‎08-09-2005

Re: Mic suggestions

btw, a SM57 costs only about $25, anything more is a rip off
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Valued Contributor
thankyou
Posts: 16,959
Registered: ‎07-17-2005

Re: Mic suggestions


Rudolf von Hagenwil wrote:
btw, a SM57 costs only about $25, anything more is a rip off

Shame on you, Rudy.

----------------------
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.

....Leonard Cohen
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Trusted Contributor
Rudolf von Hagenwil
Posts: 27,634
Registered: ‎08-09-2005

Re: Mic suggestions


thankyou wrote:

Rudolf von Hagenwil wrote:
btw, a SM57 costs only about $25, anything more is a rip off

Shame on you, Rudy.


 

why?

that's what they cost in Suzhou where Shure products are manufactured, actually in Suzhou they are cheaper, they charge so about +200% to ship them 75 miles to Shanghai, they possibly ship each single mic with UPS Overnight Express, hee hee

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Valued Contributor
thankyou
Posts: 16,959
Registered: ‎07-17-2005

Re: Mic suggestions


Rudolf von Hagenwil wrote:

thankyou wrote:

Rudolf von Hagenwil wrote:
btw, a SM57 costs only about $25, anything more is a rip off

Shame on you, Rudy.


 

why?

that's what they cost in Suzhou where Shure products are manufactured, actually in Suzhou they are cheaper, they charge so about +200% to ship them 75 miles to Shanghai, they possibly ship each single mic with UPS Overnight Express, hee hee


Well, that makes it all right.  A $5,000 trip to save $50.

----------------------
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.

....Leonard Cohen
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Trusted Contributor
Rudolf von Hagenwil
Posts: 27,634
Registered: ‎08-09-2005

Re: Mic suggestions

even my Chinese assistant can shop in China when she is in Paris,


that's actually what she does all day long no matter where we work
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Super Contributor
Posts: 13,272
Registered: ‎08-21-2006

Re: Mic suggestions

I got a bunch of SM57's in the studio to mic cabs. I got board with the sound and use them on drum toms for now. I picked up a batch of PG57's on EBay cheap and have been using them on my guitar cabs. You wouldnt think a cheaper mic would be a good choice but I was hapily surprised to find I been getting better results using them.

I dont even have to EQ my guitar tracks any more like I used to have to using the SM's. The SM's have a 5K bump that works with allot of rock mixes, but you have to remove it if you want a flatter mix. I'd say the PG's are built better as well. Very heavy and solid. If anything because of the larger head basket, there may be a little more bleedover from other instruments in tight confines recording a whole band. Other than that I'd choose them over the SM57's for guitar amps.

For vocals, I've used both. Neither are my favorite. I used SM57's for decades playing live. They have   good feedback rejection but its a mic that has a short proxcimity effect. If you put your lips right on it you can get maximum effect but the bass responce drops off quickly when you back off it. I knew how to work it well and took advantage of that boost singing live. I own muc better mics now so its not even a choice for live vocals unless I want to work harder than I should singing. The PG57 in comparison has a better high end and a bit more flexibility with the proxcimity. Better transparency. Sounds closer to my Beta 58A for live stuff. I could get by using it live if I had no other options.

For recording vocals, I find both lacking. My voice is a challange to record to begin with and finding the right mic for tracking took me a long time. The vocals I've done with an SM57 really lack the air and crispness needed in a mix. It may work for some screaming rock vocals where you use it up closer but you'll soon find tracking vocals and guitar cabs with the same mic is pretty much a fail.

Mics have a frequency responce curve that comes from its design. You can only EQ what the mic prduces and if frequencies arent reproduced they just dont exhist. What happens is the Voice and guitar are reproduced with the same responce curve from the mic. Guitars are midrange and the SM's do very well in that range. When you track vocals they have a strong midrange which are easily "Masked" by the same frequencies of the guitar. Vocals are hard enough to record and get them out in front of the instruments. when both are tracked with the same mic you'll no doubt have to roll off the guitar quality so the vocals come through out in front of the guitars which only weakens the recording.

The SM57's roll of quickly at 11~12Khz. With a really good low noise preamp where you can boost an SM up to get some stronger gain to compete with the guitars and the vocals should sound good. For most of your cheaper interface preamps its not going to do so hot. You want to get the gain up so you're tracking the SM57 from about 6" or more and its going to sound really thin with stock interface preamps.

You'll get by using only one mic for both Vocals and guitar but I do suggest you save to buy a second vocal mic. I cant make any specific recomendations because vocals mics really need to be matched to a persons voice for best results. A condencer mic helps because it gives you some boost that can put the vocals in front of the guitars. Thay often have better high end and flatter response which will let the vocals come through in a crowded mix with some presence still intact.

Theres a whole lot more to it of course. The room you record in, the musical arrangement, the musical performance, mixing techniques, and a dozen other important factors. We all have to begin someplace though. Many recomend an SM57 just because its common ground, a point of understanding others have a frame or reference to go by. If I hear a track recorded with an SM57, I can "hear myself through" the responce of the mic and know what might be needed from the actual sound source. kind of like wearing sun glasses. I know the tint of the lenses and know how much the actual light was shaded because I wear the same sunglasses.

It doesnt mean that mic is the best for an application nor is it inferior. Its only a stepping off point. The concensus is by most recording engineers is, they can make that mic sound great in a recording which is the key item here. A mic is only a tool. Its the man who has the talent to weild that tool thats important. The SM57 has a certain range of flexibility when tracking and mixing what its captured. That range does extend up into pro levels.

If an amature can use that mic and exhaust its possibilities, then that experience mixing and tracking is whats important. It will make him a good recording engineer but its does require him to work at it and learn his trade. There may be other mics that are a great match for your guitar setup. Place it in front of the amp and bingo, the track sounds good with no effort. What do you learn though. If theres no effort in capturing a good track thats fine if your only goal is to have a completed recording. You wont develop the skill to get the best from that mic or any other.

The example would be if you spend a year with an SM57 and experiment using every technique to get the best results from that mic, you will be able to match the responce of another mic you just place in front of the cab and it happens to sound good. The difference is the experience you gained. If you have that experience and pick up any mic, you will use that experience to get the best sound quality from it.  

Like I said its a stepping off point. If you started with the worst piece of crap theres very little room to learn or improve with its use. The quality puts a ceiling on improvement. Other mics may be good but are kind of one trick ponys. They too can limit your ability to learn anything useful.

Mics like guitars are cheap to buy these days. If you're getting into recording, then expect to buy a dozen different types over time. An SM57 is your budget Telecaster or Les Paul of mics. Nothing unique and surely not the best mic made. It will allow you to learn how to use it and as you get experience, you can buy others to expand your options.

 

 

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Super Contributor
Posts: 13,272
Registered: ‎08-21-2006

Re: Mic suggestions

I got a bunch of SM57's in the studio to mic cabs. I got board with the sound and use them on drum toms for now. I picked up a batch of PG57's on EBay cheap and have been using them on my guitar cabs. You wouldn't think a cheaper mic would be a good choice but I was happily surprised to find I been getting better results using them.

I don't even have to EQ my guitar tracks any more like I used to have to using the SM's. The SM's have a 5K bump that works with allot of rock mixes, but you have to remove it if you want a flatter mix. I'd say the PG's are built better as well. Very heavy and solid. If anything because of the larger head basket, there may be a little more bleedover from other instruments in tight confines recording a whole band. Other than that I'd choose them over the SM57's for guitar amps.

For vocals, I've used both. Neither are my favorite. I used SM57's for decades playing live. They have   good feedback rejection but its a mic that has a short proximity effect. If you put your lips right on it you can get maximum effect but the bass response drops off quickly when you back off it. I knew how to work it well and took advantage of that boost singing live. I own much better mics now so its not even a choice for live vocals unless I want to work harder than I should singing. The PG57 in comparison has a better high end and a bit more flexibility with the proximity. Better transparency. Sounds closer to my Beta 58A for live stuff. I could get by using it live if I had no other options.

For recording vocals, I find both lacking. My voice is a challenge to record to begin with and finding the right mic for tracking took me a long time. The vocals I've done with an SM57 really lack the air and crispness needed in a mix. It may work for some screaming rock vocals where you use it up closer but you'll soon find tracking vocals and guitar cabs with the same mic is pretty much a fail.

Mics have a frequency response curve that comes from its design. You can only EQ what the mic produces and if frequencies aren't reproduced they just don't exist. What happens is the Voice and guitar are reproduced with the same response curve from the mic. Guitars are midrange and the SM's do very well in that range. When you track vocals they have a strong midrange which are easily "Masked" by the same frequencies of the guitar. Vocals are hard enough to record and get them out in front of the instruments. When both are tracked with the same mic you'll no doubt have to roll off the guitar quality so the vocals come through out in front of the guitars which only weakens the recording.

The SM57's roll of quickly at 11~12Khz. With a really good low noise preamp where you can boost an SM up to get some stronger gain to compete with the guitars and the vocals should sound good. For most of your cheaper interface preamps its not going to do so hot. You want to get the gain up so you're tracking the SM57 from about 6" or more and its going to sound really thin with stock interface preamps.

You'll get by using only one mic for both Vocals and guitar but I do suggest you save to buy a second vocal mic. I can't make any specific recommendations because vocals mics really need to be matched to a persons voice for best results. A condenser mic helps because it gives you some boost that can put the vocals in front of the guitars. They often have better high end and flatter response which will let the vocals come through in a crowded mix with some presence still intact.

There's a whole lot more to it of course. The room you record in, the musical arrangement, the musical performance, mixing techniques, and a dozen other important factors. We all have to begin someplace though. Many recommend an SM57 just because its common ground, a point of understanding others have a frame or reference to go by. If I hear a track recorded with an SM57, I can "hear myself through" the response of the mic and know what might be needed from the actual sound source. Kind of like wearing sun glasses. I know the tint of the lenses and know how much the actual light was shaded because I wear the same sunglasses.

It doesn't mean that mic is the best for an application nor is it inferior. Its only a stepping off point. The consensus is by most recording engineers is, they can make that mic sound great in a recording which is the key item here. A mic is only a tool. Its the man who has the talent to wield that tool that's important. The SM57 has a certain range of flexibility when tracking and mixing what its captured. That range does extend up into pro levels.

If an amateur can use that mic and exhaust its possibilities, then that experience mixing and tracking is what's important. It will make him a good recording engineer but its does require him to work at it and learn his trade. There may be other mics that are a great match for your guitar setup. Place it in front of the amp and bingo, the track sounds good with no effort. What do you learn though. If there's no effort in capturing a good track that's fine if your only goal is to have a completed recording. You wont develop the skill to get the best from that mic or any other.

The example would be if you spend a year with an SM57 and experiment using every technique to get the best results from that mic, you will be able to match the response of another mic you just place in front of the cab and it happens to sound good. The difference is the experience you gained. If you have that experience and pick up any mic, you will use that experience to get the best sound quality from it.  

Like I said its a stepping off point. If you started with the worst piece of crap there's very little room to learn or improve with its use. The quality puts a ceiling on improvement. Other mics may be good but are kind of one trick pony's. They too can limit your ability to learn anything useful.

Mics like guitars are cheap to buy these days. If you're getting into recording, then expect to buy a dozen different types over time. An SM57 is your budget Telecaster or Less Paul of mics. Nothing unique and surely not the best mic made. It will allow you to learn how to use it nd as you get experience, you can buy others to expand your options.

 

 

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Super Contributor
Kid Klash
Posts: 4,950
Registered: ‎11-08-2002

Re: Mic suggestions


Rudolf von Hagenwil wrote:

.... and show me an image where Paul McCartney records vocals or bass with a SM57.


Just Google "Paul McCartney recording with a shure sm57 mic" Rudy...  :manfrustrated:

My band "The Executives" website : TheExecutivesMusic.com
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