Recording Forum

[joncyberboy]

My band has been using backing tracks for years. We used to use minidisc, then moved to ipod. We pan all the backing left (which goes to the PA) and the click right (which goes to a headphone amp for the drummer).

However i'd like to solve these problems:

1. Fiddly useage. Our drummer has problems cueing the next track with the small ipod. So big buttons, simple quick and no menu scrolling would be GREAT.

2: Stereo. We want to be able to send the backing in stereo and run a 3rd channel for the click.

We don't have loads of money to spend, but are willing to invest insomething that works well.

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Also i'm aware many people might say use a computer, but i feel this is a pretty scary prospect when gigging small, sweaty, beer sligning venues. Maybe you can talk me round...lets see!!!

[ex5bn]

I used to play drums in a band which had a similar setup. before i joined, they used an iPod with stereo panning like you guys, but i switched it over to Ableton Live on my Laptop, to have more control over levels, and the click track sound. Of course this involved painstakingly transferring all the backing tracks into live with precise tempo synchronization (they used speed ups and slow downs frequently!). I had to use an M-Audio ProFire 2626 as an interface, and i must say it was a very messy setup - ultimately it didn't last more than about 2-3 months of gigging, due to the hassles.

[Mr.Grumpy]

Maybe a HD multitrack recorder? :confused:

It looks like you might have to buy an 8-track model to get more than just a stereo output. On the plus side, they look like a mixer, so it won't look out of place on stage. And it's a self contained box, so you don't have to mess with both a computer and an outboard audio interface.

[blue2blue]

My band has been using backing tracks for years. We used to use minidisc, then moved to ipod. We pan all the backing left (which goes to the PA) and the click right (which goes to a headphone amp for the drummer). However i'd like to solve these problems: 1. Fiddly useage. Our drummer has problems cueing the next track with the small ipod. So big buttons, simple quick and no menu scrolling would be GREAT. 2: Stereo. We want to be able to send the backing in stereo and run a 3rd channel for the click. We don't have loads of money to spend, but are willing to invest insomething that works well. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Also i'm aware many people might say use a computer, but i feel this is a pretty scary prospect when gigging small, sweaty, beer sligning venues. Maybe you can talk me round...lets see!!!

Quick query: how many clubs these days use stereo sound reinforcement from the stage? I don't get out much anymore, so maybe I'm behind the times, but back in the day there were few clubs running live stereo sound from the stage. Canned music, sure, but I can't think of any clubs I frequented had stereo SR.

[joncyberboy]

Quick query: how many clubs these days use stereo sound reinforcement from the stage?

I don't get out much anymore, so maybe I'm behind the times, but back in the day there were few clubs running live stereo sound from the stage. Canned music, sure, but I can't think of any clubs I frequented had stereo SR.

It seems most of the venues we play are able to pan left and right. Im assuming thats true stereo?


As for the ~Ableton on a computer method i have had it suggested before but a lot of the shows we play are just so hectic i'd be really worried about it.

If we were to go the 8 track route can anyone suggest one that is affordable, allows just the click to be sent to a different output and is simple to navigate to the different songs?

[scarecrowbob]

"It seems most of the venues we play are able to pan left and right. Im assuming thats true stereo? " That is often true, but think about how the audience listening to the material works. The folks outside of the very middle of the soundfield won't hear stuff in correct stereo-- just an awkward mix. I really can't think of any of the sound guys who I know who mix in stereo.

[CN Fletcher]

A DVD player. You run the tracks that should be going to FOH out of the LF RF outputs and then run a count off and a click track into the monitors from the LR RR outputs. You could even put stuff on the "center" and "sub" channels if the mood struck you. They can even shift from "scene to scene" [song to song] with the click of a remote if you wanted to get fancy about it... that and they're cheap as shit [I just got one for the bedroom... paid $17.00 for it... and it works great!!]. Peace.

[mister natural]

To Blue's point - if you were playing concerts in auditoriums with a quiet crowd, you'd definately want stereo playback. In a sweaty, loud, half-drunk nightclub, stereo is un-needed as the audience is prolly not that in to your fine sonics anyway

[joncyberboy]

Its not so much the wide stero panning thing, more that some of the mix starts to go weird when played mono...especially some of the fatter synths. But i do take the point about unless the audience member is dead centre it'd just sound like an odd mix.

Fletcher, i like your DVD player idea except the potential problem with skipping. A lot of the stages we play one are far from sturdy and having a band bouncing around tends to make things skip. (even made the minidisc do it once of twice!)

[CN Fletcher]

Then get a marble slab and a couple of pieces of Sorbothane® and you should be fine.

Marble should be about an inch thick... set it on top of a road case on the Sorbothane® and you shouldn't have any skipping problems. The Sorbothane® will isolate the marble from the vibrations around it, and the mass of the marble will prevent air born vibration from influencing the player.

Peace.

[jayare]

hi--Ive used a Digitech Jamman to play my backing tracks for a couple of years,now..Its small,and built like a tank...has 2 pedals...(Start/Stop)...although it wasnt designed for this purpose..it has been flawless!..The 2G Flashcard holds 99 tracks...and while a track is playing you can cue up the next ...

[joncyberboy]

hi--Ive used a Digitech Jamman to play my backing tracks for a couple of years,now..Its small,and built like a tank...has 2 pedals...(Start/Stop)...although it wasnt designed for this purpose..it has been flawless!..The 2G Flashcard holds 99 tracks...and while a track is playing you can cue up the next ...

it sounded really good, but it seems it only records in mono so we couldnt record a click to the left and the backing to the right. Or am i wrong?

[MOGAZI!]

I'm having the same backing track dilemma... :confused:

What did you end up doing? Anyone with other suggestions?
Cheers!

[Kenny12554]

Hey guys,..Kenny here.  I am sure this is going to sound fairly lame but I "really" would appreciate ANY and ALL the help I can get on on how to run backing tracks live on stage with my country band. I am working a very talented up and coming Texas artist and he has assigned me the task of figuring out this technology 

First of all, I am buying the tracks from a site named karoki-version.  The tracks are excellent and exactly what we want.  HERE is the problem:  Once I get them mixed, then I download them to my PC...the CLICK TRACK is included on the mix.  Now, my problem is HOW do I split the click from the main track (or file) and send it directly to our drummer? I have tried Audicity and everything else but keep coming up short.  I am sure the fault lies with ME.  It just that I am guitar player for starters, and I just cannot seem to master the technology here??

I keep reading where you guys are talking about "panning" the click hard left to the drummer.  OK, I "know" what "panning" means obviously,...but what EQUIPMENT do I need to split the click?  Right now I only have my laptop.  Sorry to sound so inexperienced but ANY help would be greatly appreciated.   Please, if you decide to be kind enough to help me, ...please rememmber you are dealing with somoene who has NEVER before done this.  So, please don't take anything for granted when explaining it to me.  Thanks so much.  Sorry for the long message, I am just about ready to pull my hair out!!!

[Snaporaz]

today and in this situation I would use a laptop to play the additional non-live tracks, then all is easy 

[Snaporaz]

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joncyberboy wrote:

Fletcher, i like your DVD player idea except the potential problem with skipping.

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not a good idea, a DVD is not 100% reliable in playback, they can skip, even skip when nobody touches the player, DAT would be better old technology

[stevev]

kenny,

Go to Karoake Version and customize your song with all of the tracks you want but without the "click" track and make an mp3. Down load it.  Then go back to Karaoke Version and record just the "click" track from the same song and make an mp3. Down load it.  Now you have 2 mp3's ..one with just the click track and one with the music. You can now use a recorder or software (Audacity) to record each mp3 to either the left or right channels of a new recording. The new recording will now have a separated click track on one channel and the music on the other.

[Rudolf von Hag…]

DVD isn't good, we did it once then a spectator hit the rack in the middle of the stadium where the mixer is, the song skiped, the artist was confused