Phil O'Keefe: In The Studio Trenches

[hethaerto4]

Originally posted by nosamiam
Yes! Just the kind of stuff I was looking for. Thanks!

I shouldn't have too much trouble widening the drums. I've got a lot of room to pan.

The guitar is actually a 12-string (which our player uses exclusively) going into a Laney tube amp, close-miked with a 57. The spring reverb is the one on the amp. He tends to use it a lot (the reverb) during rehearsal and gigs. His background is in garage and if I asked him, I imagine he'd say its part of his signature sound. Should we record him dry, do you think, adding reverb later? Or maybe even record direct (he hates the idea) and then re-amp the track to try to convince him that maybe less works better than more?

I record drums with two overheads,
an Audix i5 on snare, and an Audix D6 on kick. I try to record in a treated room as well. I hate room sound on drums. Room sound and ambience are two different things. The over heads will give you some ambience, taking away the upfront immediacy. Make sure the dude can tune his kit. Polish the cymbals so they'll ring instead of clang.

Definitely keep recording the amp with the 57. Get the mic as close as possible to the outer edge of the speaker. With headphones on, have him play while you slightly adjust the mic until you like the tone.

You're going to need tons of olume to get it sounding strong and full, in my opinion. It is a tube amp, and tube amps don't come alive until you push them really hard.

The original tone in your recording sounded very thin. He probably has his EQ scooped. You'll need to adjust his EQ while he plays. You'll need lots of midrange, and not very much bottom.
I tend to cut the shit out of the top end, but that's my taste.

Sometimes guitarists refuse to kill the reverb completely, but a good compromise is to set it about 30%. That way it's there, but not too obvious.

You've got a strong bass guitar tone, so I wouldn't change too much there except cutting the midrange to make room for everything else.

Do you guys have a better song with some dynamix and maybe even some singing?

I'm glad to see your desire to learn.

[nosamiam]

Good ear! Yes, our room is pretty much untreated. That's something we're going to work on before we do any more recording. I used a pair of MXL SDC's as overheads, a Studio Projects LDC for snare/hat back a little bit and toward the bottom (didn't use the pad and they ended up liking the sound of the overdriven mic) and an AKG D112 on kick. I think treating the room will go a long ways towards making it sound better. It took a LOT of EQ to get those MXL's to sound decent.

Our guitarist is quite opinionated, kind of rash, and he's been playing for a really long time. This sometimes adds up to quick judgements from him that aren't always sound. He's a "slap a mic in front of it, no effects" purist kind of guy. But he always comes around eventually. We just have to sneak in some nice touches and then tell him how we achieve them. He's a pleasure to work with really, and he really makes us work on our diplomacy.

Drum kit tuning? What's that? J/k. Our drummer has only actively tuned his kit once from an online guide I printed for him! But he's lately taken a big interest in sounding better. He just really doesn't know where to start. Thanks for the tip about the cymbals!!!

And thanks for the guitar EQ tips. I'll definitely try to incorporate them.

We do have much better songs and this is our only instrumental. We just thought this would be a good song to get our feet wet since it's a relatively simple one.

Thanks a lot for suffering through our song and offering the pointers. We had a really short suspense date, and the mix is due tomorrow, so I'll take another crack at it and then I'm off to bed.

[hethaerto4]

Cool. Good luck.

[keka]

Ok heres a little electronic music

http://zebox.com/ticka/

I entered a competition on another board Titled "sample MIXUP"
5 of us posted 2 samples each and we were too use nothing but those samples and our computers and samplers..We could process and chop them up as much as we wanted ,we just had too use those samples...

the original samples were pretty bad ,I somehow got inspired from them and made this track..

I dable with electronic Music in between time with my band.

I mainly want too know what you think of the production.Input on the song would be nice also,im thinking about adding some vocals and maby a little guitar if I can fit it in there somewhere.

[hethaerto4]

Keka,
I'm sorry, but I honestly have no input for you.
If your mix was built upon real elements recorded with a microphone played by real people, then I could give you some feedback.
Not that the genre you subscribe to is not genuine, it's just that I really don't get it.
I listened twice to your song, or mix, but I couldn't get into it.
Sorry,
Allen

[keka]

Originally posted by hethaerto4
Keka,
I'm sorry, but I honestly have no input for you.
If your mix was built upon real elements recorded with a microphone played by real people, then I could give you some feedback.
Not that the genre you subscribe to is not genuine, it's just that I really don't get it.
I listened twice to your song, or mix, but I couldn't get into it.
Sorry,
Allen

Thanks for the responce!..Im guessing you not a fan of electronic music?

It started out as 10 seperate 1-4 sec wave files and i composed,proccesed,automated and played over keys on my MIDI controler.
Realy there is nooooo way in hell you could do anything close too what is done in electronic music with the good old fashoned Guitar and "real elements" it is impossible.It just brings a whole new level of creativity too music that has never been done and could never have been done until now.Thats what electronic music fans and musicians look for(myself anyway) ..Its all about pushing sonic boundys that old skool musicians just cant do or understand.

Why did parents not like rock and roll when it was first braught too the table?? because they didnt understand it.

Why did parents of the 80s hate metal??Because they didnt understand it.

Why do partents hate HipHop today??They dont understand it.
and so on....People dont like things that they dont understand and automaticaly become ignorant too them.Well i guess not in all cases there are things that i understand(at least i think i do)and still dont realy care for.Like most new Hip hop is total rubish some of the beats are ok but for the most part Rubish! Same old crap over and over..Will the 808 ever die??

Ill post something that ive been working on with my band soon you will be a little more up too speed with that..I see myself as a decent bass player but Im just getting into recording "real elements" and i would like some feedback..


Again thanks for the responce

[C JoGo]

A little fun with Lennon... ACROSS THE UNIVERSE

[Anonymous(anon)]

Ok folks, here's one for ya. Looking for comments on the mix/sound/textures. This is my song "Sides of Us" sans words. . .waitin' for the AT2020 to track vocals again Here's the rest of the lineup. . .

Fruity Loops
Yamaha 4-string bass (direct)
Tele
Squier Bullet
Peavey Backstage 50
(solo was thru a Boss HM-2)
Nady SP-9
Behringer Eurorack UB1002
Tracktion :thu:

Anyway, let me know what you think, what needs improvment (besides my gear! )

Sides of Us (unfinished) @ Soundclick

---edit---
It's a bit repetetive and boring without the words. . .once you get thru the first verse and chorus, the bridge is at 2:18 and the solo at 2:45. Thanks!

[Anonymous(anon)]

Originally posted by C JoGo
A little fun with Lennon... ACROSS THE UNIVERSE

I wish I could play guitar like that. Very nice, very relaxing. Sounded good man, the acoustic was a little bright in my crappy computer speakers, but whaddaya expect, eh? :thu:

[C JoGo]

Originally posted by fallbackdown


I wish I could play guitar like that. Very nice, very relaxing. Sounded good man, the acoustic was a little bright in my crappy computer speakers, but whaddaya expect, eh? :thu:

The brightness is probably me always requesting new strings for a session, from an artists..and the guy can play ..

>> heres my path : may have something to do with the bright side ~~~
Rode NT 3 on the neck & AT 4033 on body...and a Rode NTK about 8 feet back for the "room." Manley DVC pre to a SEK'd converter ....effects were all TC electronics & a LXP5 ...a parameter in the Behringer 2496 gave the wide stereo--and final EQ/Comp >> to a Masterlink

glad you gave a listen

[UstadKhanAli]

Here is a new song that I got through mixing recently. Those who enjoy a bit of psychedelia with their rock will especially enjoy "Undone". Lemme know what you think (post here). Thanks!

Undone MP3 (192 kbps)

Page with more songs if you want to hear more... These are all songs from my band. I play guitar and keyboards and did all the recording. The recording was done at my very own Blueberry Buddha Studios.

These songs will sound a little different from each other in some respects...they were recorded at different times:

-Some were tracked on analog and mixed down onto DAT.

-Some were tracked on analog and then transferred to Pro Tools for further overdubs and mixing.

-And some were tracked and mixed on Pro Tools only.

I don't know if you'll be able to tell or not. I doubt I could if I didn't know already!

~~~~~~~~~~~

As always, thank you so much for listening and for your comments!!! If you want to know how they were recorded or any other technical information, ask away!!

[elamberth]

Hello!

Here is a song I've done recently and would appreciate any comments - positive, or helpful suggestions.

I record as a hobby, and use pretty basic stuff - a VTB-1 and Joemeek VC3 pres, then [sometimes] to a samson s-com compressor, then into a tascam US-224 converter, to SONAR 3 Studio (with the sonitus EQ and compressor). I wrote the song (rock instrumental) and play the guitars and bass. The drums I arranged from a sequencer. I plyed an epiphone dot guitar, and the cheapest squier p-bass I could find. I monitor with KRK ST6's.
I did do some "mastering".

Thanks for listening!

[elamberth]

OOPS! I tried to attach the mp3 with the "Attach file" function and I guess it didn't work.

Here is a link:

http://home.comcast.net/~elamberth/RhythmsMastered-less_bass.mp3

Thanks!

[C JoGo]

Ken ::: what effects are you using for the vocals ??

The tune set me back to the venues of '68/70...remember those concerts well !!

Thanks

[UstadKhanAli]

Originally posted by C JoGo
Ken ::: what effects are you using for the vocals ??

The tune set me back to the venues of '68/70...remember those concerts well !!

Thanks

Thanks! "Undone" seems to be a new favorite when we play it at clubs.

FX on the vox...reverb's the TC Electronics M300 (hardware), and the delay is a TelRay Delay plug-in...I don't know what kind, but I think it came with either Pro Tools itself or a Bomb Factory plug-in.

In either case, I really like the TelRay plug-in a lot. Sometimes I sneak it in with a track so you can't hear it, but if I were to take it out, you'd notice something sounded different.

On this song, however, I just let it fly, "gain-riding" it throughout the song.

We really have a lot of fun playing this song, and had a lot of fun mixing and recording it. Hopefully you and others will like it.

[UstadKhanAli]

Originally posted by C JoGo
Ken ::: what effects are you using for the vocals ??

The tune set me back to the venues of '68/70...remember those concerts well !!

Thanks

Thanks! "Undone" seems to be a new favorite when we play it at clubs.

FX on the vox...reverb's the TC Electronics M300 (hardware), and the delay is a TelRay Delay plug-in...I don't know what kind, but I think it came with either Pro Tools itself or a Bomb Factory plug-in.

In either case, I really like the TelRay plug-in a lot. Sometimes I sneak it in with a track so you can't hear it, but if I were to take it out, you'd notice something sounded different.

On this song, however, I just let it fly, "gain-riding" it throughout the song.

We really have a lot of fun playing this song, and had a lot of fun mixing and recording it. Hopefully you and others will like it.

Undone MP3 (192 kbps)

[C JoGo]

Perfect delay ! I use mainly TC > but you nailed the parameters on that one !!

[UstadKhanAli]

Originally posted by C JoGo
Perfect delay ! I use mainly TC > but you nailed the parameters on that one !!

Thanks! It's kinda funny because that plug-in has very crude parameters to tweak. It's a bunch of knobs with no read-out and crude increments, not much to adjust. Just use your ear and "twist".

Which is fine since after all it's emulating an old TelRay.

[DonaldDemon]

Originally posted by hethaerto4


I seriously think your guys should change your band name to :"The Human Tornado". That fits your sound so much better that "Cheap Sedated Hams".
Great songs. Very original style, at least to my ears.
The myspace media player is garbage. Any other place we can hear your songs?

Hey Thanks, I didn't think anyone actually listened to any of the songs. Human Tornado is a Black 70's B-Movie with Dolemite so there would probably be some copyright infringements if we named it that. You can also listen to them at our website in my sig. Iwill give a listen to your songs but I have to do it at work and I must be quiet.

[Lee Knight]

Originally posted by UstadKhanAli
Here is a new song that I got through mixing recently. Those who enjoy a bit of psychedelia with their rock will especially enjoy "Undone". Lemme know what you think (post here). Thanks!

Undone MP3 (192 kbps)

Page with more songs if you want to hear more... These are all songs from my band. I play guitar and keyboards and did all the recording. The recording was done at my very own Blueberry Buddha Studios.

These songs will sound a little different from each other in some respects...they were recorded at different times:

-Some were tracked on analog and mixed down onto DAT.

-Some were tracked on analog and then transferred to Pro Tools for further overdubs and mixing.

-And some were tracked and mixed on Pro Tools only.

I don't know if you'll be able to tell or not. I doubt I could if I didn't know already!

~~~~~~~~~~~

As always, thank you so much for listening and for your comments!!! If you want to know how they were recorded or any other technical information, ask away!!

I lost myself in that one. Really cool zip/zap effects. Morcheeba-esque?

Now for the suggestions... I think the snare is too present. It needs to be murky too fit the vibe. Vocal needs more air.

In other words, bring the singer forward, and move the drummer back about 8 feet.

Very cool stuff... very groovy.