Live Sound & Production

[sailorman]

I had an '87 RX7 Turbo with a failing OEM stereo. So I decided to replace both the FM/CD/Cassette unit and the speakers. I managed to fit the stereo unit into the dash opening without too much trouble. The rear speakers were mounted on the top of the shock towers behind the seats, pointing up. I measured them at around 6" and bought a pair of Alpine 2 way speakers. Once opened up, I found out that it wasn't just a speaker in there, it was an enclosure containing both a speaker and it's amplifier. That made wiring an adventure. I made an adapter plate to fit the speaker to the enclosure, figured out which of the several wires I could use (didn't want to connect to something with power in it) and eventually got everything hooked up. It sounded terrible, if anything, worse than the trashed OEM system. Lots of work for a crappy result. Good thing the car was so noisy inside, I could barely hear it.

My Mercedes C230 has a terrific stereo in it, excellent sound. Hope it never fails, I'd replace the car before trying to fix the stereo.

[Mogwix]

My car came with a factory-installed Bose system. It actually sounds really good. I need to build a new box for my subwoofers and run the wiring... maybe in the spring.

For your dash speakers, maybe you could hack away at the material the speaker mounts to and fashion some sort of box to put in there? I did something similar with my friends' GMC truck. Also, I'd recommend coax speakers to put in your dash, instead of the separate mid/tweeter deal you're using now.

If you're going to put some speakers in the doors, maybe you could cut a hole for the speaker and use expanding foam to seal up an "enclosure" inside the door. It'll also help with vibration and maintain some of the door's structure. I'd also line the cavity with some MLV and maybe make a bracket/spacer to mount the speaker on so the magnet isn't touching the outside of the door.

The easiest way to do it, though, would be to just get some 6x9" coax drivers and build a couple of cheap boxes to put them in. You could even mount them to the roof of the van, behind your seats.

[Axisplayer]

Shame you can't mount some sort of cans under the dash speakers (like ceiling speakers have.) I haven't installed car audio in anything I owned for the last 30 years. Returns were not worth the effort. I live with what my vehicles come with, although that does enter into the selection process.

[W. M. Hellinger]

Originally Posted by Coaster

how come mark? are they comfy on long trips?

IMO: Must have item, because yes... arm rests are way comfy on long trips... due to offering a place to rest your elbows and take the weight of your arms off your shoulders.

[Bryan316]

First of all, tear everything outta there, and PROVE THEY WORK.

Put those in-question speakers into cardboard boxes, and test them. They should sound relatively normal, to prove whether the drivers are blown or damaged in some way. (Actually, you'd be surprised how good a set of car audio speakers can sound when using cardboard boxes as cabinets! My garage has a pair of Kenwood 6x9 speakers hooked to an old stereo, and they ain't too shabby. Ain't hi-fi either, though! Heh heh)

You said you did a lot of custom-mounting to make that stereo head unit fit in your dashboard. You should unmount it, and wire it up loose, to prove both the stereo, and the speakers in cardboard boxes, work on their own. This will eliminate wiring, wiring harnesses, and body/chassis grounding issues.

[nchangin]

Get a passive sub and put it between the two seats then you can mount some big cupholders on top of it! Mount two 12" pa speakers in the back, viola PA in the van heh or heck even a pair of 10" would be killer and of course a big car amp. Good luck on amps for car audio, I know rockford makes some good older stuff, built in xovers, real specs not peak to infinity x 100 % ratings of the cheap stuff.

[W. M. Hellinger]

Originally Posted by Axisplayer

I live with what my vehicles come with, although that does enter into the selection process.

Me too, which is why I was thrilled to trade (straight across), my good running 1967 Chevy C-50 about a year ago for a non-running 1970 Chevy C-50... my 1967 C-50 was outfitted with the stock AM radio... the 1970 is a factory original radio delete model! Ah… very nice… now when I get in my 1970 C-50 and turn on the key to fire it up, I don’t have to restart my heart after turning down a blaring radio (as left in that condition by a previous operator).

There were some other reason I traded a running same make & model vehicle for a non-running one... but the radio delete feature clenched the deal.

[Mogwix]

Originally Posted by nchangin

Get a passive sub and put it between the two seats then you can mount some big cupholders on top of it!

I plan on doing this in my dodge pickup... there's already a pair of subs behind the seats but I had to compromise on the box size to fit them in. I plan on taking out the middle seat (it's a split bench) and building a subwoofer into a center console.

I'm actually trying to design a 2x10" subwoofer box for my car as I type this.

[Rezrover]

Originally Posted by Mutha Goose

OEM audio systems have progressed to a point that after-market systems have lost a lot of their appeal.

You ain't lying. I don't need half the crap I used to have.

Of course it's still a market that has a lot of V-shaped EQ's.

[Mogwix]

Originally Posted by Rezrover

You ain't lying. I don't need half the crap I used to have.

I just wish my stock stereo had 4v outputs, a high-pass filter and iPod control.

[Marko]

My old ’92 Bonneville was pretty crappy, or maybe I should say “messed up”- I know only one side worked, but I don’t spend much time in my vehicle… 3.5 miles to work and a few more short drives here and there, sometimes on talk/news radio, sometimes music, and often don’t listen to anything at all.

Now my new-to-me Suburban LT, I think it has the premium system, and speakers all over the place. Next trip I’m gonna crank it up a bit and give it a good listen.

[W. M. Hellinger]

Originally Posted by Coaster

i do have the rear doors torn apart, and while i am in there i am going to try and fix the locking mechanism which is sticky.

Speaking of which, I don't know if I mentioned this before, but: Treat your outside door handles with a lot of respect, especially the outside driver and passenger door handles. Those handles seem to be a weak point... every Astro I've bought had busted ones, and they're a major PITA to change, and the OEM replacement handles are real money, and the aftermarket replacements all seem to be "not quite right". I keep my latches, handle mechanisms, and door hinges well lubed. You can gain access to lube the guts of the driver and passenger outside door handle mechanisms fairly effectively by removing the rubber plug just below the latch mechanism.

Also, I'll suggest to keep the hood latch well lubed, and if the hood latch cable is starting to get in the least bit doggy, replace that cable before it breaks... because opening the hood gets real difficult to do if that cable breaks.

Also... a couple ideas for speakers:

1) There is a couple cubic feet of somewhat unused space under the seats... might work to build a sub enclosure in there (could make for a fairly effective butt-kicker). One of my previous Astros had a factory compartment (drawer I think) under the passenger's seat.

2) If you're considering putting a bulkhead in behind the seats... it seems like integrating a couple of 6 x 9 speakers into the top of the bulkhead could work well.

Oh... and looking at your pictures reminds me: If you haven't already figured this out: The back doors are equipped with a metal rod that regulates to doors to opening to a maximum of a little more than 90 degrees. Generally those two rods are held onto a pin with a piece of spring steel... the rods can be easily removed from their pins, which will allow the back doors to swing open a full 180 degrees... which is real handy for two to load gear into the back of the van... note to replace the rods back on their pins before shutting the doors, otherwise the rods will be shoved into the doors a ways (but can still be retrieved with a leatherman).

[Pro Sound Guy]

Originally Posted by Coaster

i'm a little frustrated. let me back up.....

got a 1995 astro 5 weeks ago. nice van, we've been through that part of it but the tunes were no good; am/fm radio with blown out dash speakers (paper rotten, coils dragging). got a new stereo for christmas from crutchfield (kenwood 352u) and two blaupunkt 65.2 speakers (6.5" 2 ways with crossover).

stereo was a creative fit, with me making severe modifications to the "kit" that came with the radio (made a 1" thick plate out of oak and plywood and mounted it to the "kit"). the harness went smooth, got an adapter and a diagram and soldered/shrink wrapped an adapter that worked the first time. no electrical tape or wire nuts.

modified the weird clip that holds the dash speakers in (chevys idea not mine) and the speakers went in a little not so easy. this was a week ago.

it sounds awful. just awful. unbearable. its really bad.

i think the stereo is ok. i dont think the kenwood is bad. i think what is bad is the way the speakers are mounted - and i may not like the speakers but i dont know that because i think they are mounted so shitty that you cannot tell what they sound like. the speakers fire right against the windshield and are reflected back off the glass. at the same time, they are open to the bottom of the dash and you can hear sound down there as well. in addition to that fact (thats a big deal in my book) the drivers sit on columns and are open to the sides where they bolt to the dash. sound just kind of goes everywhere and there is no bass at all except the dash rattling (the speakers are quite capable of moving serious air, or in my case the dash). if i turn them up the steering wheel vibrates to beat hell but there is no bass.

i dont see anyway to fix that. but thats not where the problems end; the speakers are also harsh as hell, and the crossover is way too high (like 3K or 4K) and no matter where i put the little tweeter it rips my face off with any type of volume. right now i have them in the glove box disconnected and the drivers are still harsh but at like 1.5k.

it really is this bad.

at very low volumes so as to where you can hear the words of the song but not much else they sound ok. and this is where it sits now.

end part one.

did i mention i love my van? i do. i really do. but this is also my daily driver and it needs tunes. every vehicle i have had has had tunes in it, none so bold as my old 1970 chevy with the sub in it but still. need tunes, and nice tunes. i sit in front of a damn PA all night and all day and i want THAT type of sound on the way home, and i have had it before but not now.

part two:

i'm stalled on the dash speakers. i want to believe that the blaupunkts are not garbage speakers and so i am telling myself its the way in which they are mounted that is the issue (and they are mounted shitty, lots of problems there. you cant just have a driver sitting out in the open with the backside exposed all over and expect anything good).

so today i went and listend to every speaker in town i could find, and i listened to a lot. i've been researching car speakers for 7 days in a row in my free time (ha ha) and went to find the ones that everyone raved about. ALPINE and POLK. i could not find a polk speaker that i could tolerate - i wanted to, i really did but the bass was mid/muddy and the mids were smeary and harsh on every single one.

i listen to every INFINITY i could fine - and i didnt like those either although i liked them better than the POLK. i really wanted to like the polks. i was ready to drop $250 on new speakers for the rear of the van, plus add a sub and a sub amp. i had the cash in my pocket.

i listened to every speaker i could find and thought they ALL sounded bad.

i thought about buying a set of 12" yamaha clubs and mounting those in the van. i still think this is an option.

i was growing frustrated until i listened to a cheap set of alpine 6x9 speakers. they had nice mids, nice highs, and deep bass that was not muddy. they sounded like pro audio speakers, no hype, no junk, no bungled up mids, no mud, just good sound and extension. i played them at high volume, i played them at low volume. they sounded the same at loud or soft. they are ALPINE SPE-6090 and i paid $89.

i havent mounted them yet as i have to cur metal (they fit in the doors but require some work. also i can see daylight around the license plate mount after i took the metal door apart so i need to seal that up.

then i get on google and everyone is hating on these drivers due to lack of bass. these were the ONLY speakers that had ANY bass at all, the rest were just MUD. these have clearly defined low frequencies, not just MUCK.

i also looked everywhere for TS parameters for ANY of these speakers but came up nil.

i'm seriously; SERIOUSLY considering using pro audio speakers, a dsp and bassboxpro and doing it that way.

am i in some bizarre alternate reality? or does car audio SUCK.

Back in the day it was Clarion Power booster amps with GEQ, and Pioneer Super Tuners. Always built custom cabs out of plywood for the coax loudspeakers with 20 ft of cable attached for the "place outside of van on roof " parties. Build some custom boxes made for the TSP's of the loudspeakers. You can make them wedge shaped and strap them to the ceiling or just have free floating boxes you can move where ever you need them in the truck or outside.

[Craigv]

Originally Posted by W. M. Hellinger

2) If you're considering putting a bulkhead in behind the seats... it seems like integrating a couple of 6 x 9 speakers into the top of the bulkhead could work well.

Best advice yet, IMHO, on both accounts. If you haul anything heavier than a box of tissues, a bulkhead can keep you from becoming a gooey stain on inside of the windshield in the event(uality) of an accident. And that's a very decent place to put some speakers.

[Craigv]

Originally Posted by W. M. Hellinger

Me too, which is why I was thrilled to trade (straight across), my good running 1967 Chevy C-50 about a year ago for a non-running 1970 Chevy C-50... my 1967 C-50 was outfitted with the stock AM radio... the 1970 is a factory original radio delete model! Ah… very nice…

I get a lot of people asking me when I'm gonna install a stereo on my Road King...and why I didn't get a Street Glide so it would come with a place for a stereo.

I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but when I ride, I want to hear only the exhaust, and my thoughts. I ride until the latter isn't telling me to go clean the guns.....

[Mutha Goose]

Originally Posted by Craigv

I get a lot of people asking me when I'm gonna install a stereo on my Road King...and why I didn't get a Street Glide so it would come with a place for a stereo.

I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but when I ride, I want to hear only the exhaust, and my thoughts. I ride until the latter isn't telling me to go clean the guns.....

I traded my '07 Road King (86k miles) in for an '11 Street Glide (103 in) a couple of years ago. Most times the stereo is off. Occasionally it is nice to have though.

[W. M. Hellinger]

Originally Posted by Mutha Goose

I traded my '07 Road King (86k miles) in for an '11 Street Glide (103 in) a couple of years ago. Most times the stereo is off. Occasionally it is nice to have though.

I'll agree, to the point of:

1) To see what time it is (for a quick calculation of how many more hours of daylight/riding time till dinner remains).

2) The band wrapped up their entertainment offerings for the evening, the camp fire is just hitting stride, a 5th of Devil's Cut just surfaced, and we're wondering what the weather forecast is, or we're thinking we'd like to hear a little Hank or CCR... and somebody's got the appropriate CD.

[Craigv]

Originally Posted by W. M. Hellinger

I'll agree, to the point of:

1) To see what time it is (for a quick calculation of how many more hours of daylight/riding time till dinner remains).

2) The band wrapped up their entertainment offerings for the evening, the camp fire is just hitting stride, a 5th of Devil's Cut just surfaced, and we're wondering what the weather forecast is, or we're thinking we'd like to hear a little Hank or CCR... and somebody's got the appropriate CD.

1. The speedo's odometer has a clock function.

2. This is a good use. I'd still be leery about running the battery down if the 5th causes all concerned to lose track of time, if not consciousness.....