Live Sound & Production

[RoadRanger]

I do still like the idea of having speakon jacks on the butt end of the cabs .

[OneEng]

Hey Andy,

About what size of crowd can you cover with that rig?

[agedhorse]

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lonotes wrote:

Anybody else notice how eager Andy has been to answer any of the questions relating to the physical characteristics of the cabs, yet he lets the "butt plug" questions just sit there and simmer? It seems to me that he's getting quite a giggle out of that one.

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It appears that RR has that topic pretty well "covered" 

[agedhorse]

In a distrubuted configuration around an arena at a reasonable level, probably 2000-3000, for a concert config with subs probably 1000-1500, but it really depends on the music. I have used 12 boxes for a 2500 seat venue with Jazz for example.

[Unalaska]

So these are dual 10x1"? Pretty cool box, and having a lot of them helps in flexibility. Sounds like these get flown quite a bit too

[OneEng]

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agedhorse wrote:

In a distrubuted configuration around an arena at a reasonable level, probably 2000-3000, for a concert config with subs probably 1000-1500, but it really depends on the music. I have used 12 boxes for a 2500 seat venue with Jazz for example.

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Ahh.  So a just a little bit more than most of our powered 12" over sub rigs lots of us run around here

[agedhorse]

Single 10 but built so that they stack horn to horn and the normal pullback points can be used with a flat bar coupler to lock the cabinets together. Fairly potent for the size and wright.

[Unalaska]

That's cool, seems that for their size a 12 might be more sensitive but it works great so why not.

I have a friend who had a McCauley rig with dual 12x2" over duals, all boxes were 8hm (16ohm drivers), made it easy to be powered by a pair of crest 8001s.

[Rob_H]

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agedhorse wrote:
Single 10 but built so that they stack horn to horn and the normal pullback points can be used with a flat bar coupler to lock the cabinets together. Fairly potent for the size and wright.

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I really like your approch here,

Are there any current products you see as a good foundation to start building with? There is just so much out there right now it is pretty easy to go down a bad path. With the speakers I currently have scalabilty is not an option but I also bought it with the mindset it would easily work as side wash or practice gear.

[Bobby1Note]

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Rob_H wrote:

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Are there any current products you see as a good foundation to start building with? There is just so much out there right now it is pretty easy to go down a bad path. With the speakers I currently have scalabilty is not an option but I also bought it with the mindset it would easily work as side wash or practice gear.

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Rob,

Scalability is a great idea,,,,, as long as you have an reasonably accurate long-term view when starting out.

When I started out, I bought a pair of Yorkville NX55P's, and a couple of LS720P subs, thinking this would be more than I'd ever want, or need. Embracing the concept of scalability, I bought two more NX55P's. The thinking was, "I've got monitors", and in the right circumstance, I'd have four NX55P's for FOH. I continued by adding another set of NX55P's,,, and one year later,,,, another set. Eight in all.

Now, in the beginning, I never imagined I'd ever play to a room of more than 150 or so. 200 Max.

Along came an opportunity to upgrade my mains,,,, my dealer offered me four Yorkville EF500PB's for 1/2 price, wirh a 6 month warranty. This was a "no risk" proposition, because I could very easily re-sell those boxes if need be, for the same or more money than I payed. This was a very serious upgrade, that could easily cover 400 people in a very noisy bar. I didn't have the subs to match, so I eventually added a pair of LS801P subs, which are a perfect match for this rig. This is a very popular pairing. Basically, I now had an "A" rig, and a "B" rig, that worked well together. I could add yet another set of LS801P's for larger outdoor gigs, and that would be some serious thump indeed..

When I added the StudioLive 24, with all of its' aux-sends, I could now use my eight NX55P's for monitors, and the larger EF500PB/ LS801P rig for FOH..Lots of deployment capabilities there too; for eample; fly a 3-box cluster of the EF500PB's (180 degrees coverage), and use the other EF500 as a drum-monitor. Or, two EF500's per side. Frankly, I'm pretty happy with the way things worked out, and I've got no plans to go any farther.

Had I ever considered playing for even larger crowds, I'd probably have gone down the path of a line-array, and build from there. That's not my world, and it will never be.

[agedhorse]

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Unalaska wrote:
That's cool, seems that for their size a 12 might be more sensitive but it works great so why not.

I have a friend who had a McCauley rig with dual 12x2" over duals, all boxes were 8hm (16ohm drivers), made it easy to be powered by a pair of crest 8001s.

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12's (and other electromagnetic options) might have been more sensitive but I still run into low end limitations caused by  the cubic volume of the enclosure and it was an easier tuning selection with the 10" drivers in the box. Any reasonable 12" driver ended up with a step in the low end. Cost, size and weight were all factored into the design. Of course, this was way before Neo was available in any reasonable driver cost.

[agedhorse]

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Rob_H wrote:

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agedhorse wrote:
Single 10 but built so that they stack horn to horn and the normal pullback points can be used with a flat bar coupler to lock the cabinets together. Fairly potent for the size and wright.

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I really like your approch here,

Are there any current products you see as a good foundation to start building with? There is just so much out there right now it is pretty easy to go down a bad path. With the speakers I currently have scalabilty is not an option but I also bought it with the mindset it would easily work as side wash or practice gear.

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Mark's DUS speakers are a really good option for a passive box (horns have pretty good off axis reaponse and it's a very specific horn format that I have a lot of design experience with).

For an active box, the PRX is a good choice as is the Yamaha DSR and even the K/KW-10 and K/KW-12 (though not quite as good at the others because of off axis response.

In a scalable solution where acoustic combining is important, horn summation playes a bigger role than in other applications. Also, I myself prefer a speaker that stacks horn to horn, which is harder with the ergronomic (radiused edge and top/bottom/sides) enclosures that the marketing folks think look sexy. Personally, I hate anything round that has to stack and pack, but since marketing folks are generally pretty far removed from packing and stacking, they fail to see the reality errors of their ways.

[Pro Sound Guy]

Very nice! 

Stuff that Altec Lansing designed 50 years ago is still great stuff! (or longer)

Stuff that JBL designed from waaaay back is still great stuff!

You can still implement an A7 cabinet with a 291 16ohm compression driver and an Altec Mantary horn and have great results.!

You can still implement a JBL 2" driver on a bi directional horn with a horn loaded 15" driver and get

great results!

Many companies and designers still copy Altec and JBL and their ideas to this day.

[Audiopile]

I run a couple of different scalable systems.

1)  Meyer UPA:  I have 12ea. UPA-1A's, 4ea. 650R2 subs and 4ea. USW subs.  This is my "convention room" (or indoor) rig.  A couple UPA's and either a 650 or USW per side handles audiences of 50 - 100 tastefully, while the full rig seems suitable for up-to a few hundred.

2)  Viking Audio: (similar to JBL 4719 & 4732 stacks).  8 stacks of double 18" subs and double 15" & 2" horn cabs.  This is my "festival" (or outdoor) rig.  A stack a side handles audiences of 100+/- tastefully... 4 stacks a side seems suitable for up-to 5K attendence (or more at times... depending).

I suspect my Meyer rig is 15 some-odd years old, and the Viking rig is approx. 10 years old... but I haven't been faced with a customer mandated compelling reason yet to replace any of it with something else (the issue has never come up)... maybe because of the market I'm in, which may be a self fullfilling prophosy.

[agedhorse]

Mark's Meyer rig would be good for ~1000 for the types of shows I do

[Audiopile]

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agedhorse wrote:

Mark's Meyer rig would be good for ~1000 for the types of shows I do

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Andy:

I wrestle with this all the time:  My concern with self fulfilling prophesy and excellence vs. adequacy.

[rishabhsachan]

i like the most jal band live performance

[wasRbts]

Bobby 1 Note,  I have 6 Yorkville NX 550 P cabinets and two NX 55 P cabinets (almost identical) - and some powered subs.  This works out very well for me also.  (Now - your "B" Rig.)  Your "A" rig sounds "killer" - especially with all those NX 55P cabinets that you "could use" for different stuff - depending on circumstances.

Agedhorse said this:   "but since marketing folks are generally pretty far removed from packing and stacking, they fail to see the reality errors of their ways.."  - this is just such a killer statement - I wanted to repeat it just for the fun of it.

[agedhorse]

Quote by Mark: I wrestle with this all the time: My concern with self fulfilling prophesy and excellence vs. adequacy.

For the types of music I do, and the patrons I work with, 6 upa-1's per side is not just adequate, it's pretty much ideal.

[Bobby1Note]

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wasRbts wrote:

Bobby 1 Note,  I have 6 Yorkville NX 550 P cabinets and two NX 55 P cabinets (almost identical) - and some powered subs.  This works out very well for me also.  (Now - your "B" Rig.)  Your "A" rig sounds "killer" - especially with all those NX 55P cabinets that you "could use" for different stuff - depending on circumstances.

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Yeah, it's worked out pretty well for me. The only "deviation" I've taken from that path is, adding a pair of Yorkville Unity U15P's. I wanted a good full-range 3-way box for a couple of semi-permanent installations. The Danley-designed/liscenced synergy-aperture horn construction looked interesting, so I went with that. I was looking for something with a decent mid-range, that would hi-light female vocals in an acoustic-type setting, and acoustic-jazz and blue-grass. I'm currently re-thinking that one, and may go with an ultra-light hi-resolution Nexo rig (PS-8 or PS-10, with their matching LS-600 sub.and dedicated digital amp/processor NXAMP4X4). The d&b AudioTechnik Q7 is another (preferred) possibility (powered ny their D-12 amp/processor). It may be another year before I decide.