Pro Sound Guy wrote:You said....I think that if I were to set the gain so that the max was closer to 0-2 this would solve the issue.
Indeed you have hit the nail on the head. Run the output of the Mixwiz so your hitting Zero (unity)
Keep in mind this is zero's and one's and not tape saturation
Very simple fix for a seemingly complex issue.
I am going to give this simple solution a try 
Hopefully everything will work out. If not .... I guess I will have to come up with a plan "B".
I don't look at my speakers to try to enhance the sound. The job of my speakers is to make it louder as accurately as possible in the room. Better speakers do a better job but the speaker shouldn't ever really be adding something like "nuances". Now the room itself may add some nice things, the sound of the crowd, the ambience, the space. But I typically don't like a room only recording unless it's something very classical/choral/orchestral/acoustic. Anything rockish I may want to add a bit of a mic to pick up room sound but I primarily want a tight clean sound.
samkokajko wins! - MusicalSchizo 
ChiroVette wrote:
I have a question on this topic. Let's use the StudioLive as an example. That mixer has good or great input pre amps (depending on who you ask) and it is made to record directly to a PC and a mac. But I have been thinking about something the last few days. If you spend a ton of money on good speakers, like the PRX, K, KW, or even much better cabinets, then wouldn't you want to record what the speakers sound like at a gig? I mean, wouldn't that be more representative of what the band actually sounds like to the audience? Not sure why this is bugging me of late, but it seems to me that if you record right from the board, while getting the cleanest sound and perhaps it would be better as a way of promoting your band to venue owners and festival production companies, aren't you also losing all the nuances of the nice speakers you picked out for your system?
Hell, no. 
It depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Are you looking to record individual tracks, so you can edit/re-mix the tracks for an optimal "Live" recording? or,,,, are you wanting to get a simple feed from the main outs, to record the "Live" mix? (Can't edit individual tracks), or,,,, are you trying to record what the system sounded like in "that room", and that location in the room?
ChiroVette wrote:
I have a question on this topic. Let's use the StudioLive as an example. That mixer has good or great input pre amps (depending on who you ask) and it is made to record directly to a PC and a mac. But I have been thinking about something the last few days. If you spend a ton of money on good speakers, like the PRX, K, KW, or even much better cabinets, then wouldn't you want to record what the speakers sound like at a gig? I mean, wouldn't that be more representative of what the band actually sounds like to the audience? Not sure why this is bugging me of late, but it seems to me that if you record right from the board, while getting the cleanest sound and perhaps it would be better as a way of promoting your band to venue owners and festival production companies, aren't you also losing all the nuances of the nice speakers you picked out for your system?
For room recording might look into the portable hand held recorders which have onboard mini condensers mics design for stereo recording along with a built in limiter so you don't get distortion in a loud environment. Can't comment on how good they work or sound. As already mention you'd be way better off using muti track recording method and edit in post. FWIW they also make video version of the hand held portable recorders but again can't comment on how good they work.
lonotes wrote:
agedhorse wrote:
lonotes wrote:One method would be to "slip" the ambient track in your DAW a few milliseconds so that it lines up in phase with your other tracks. An easier method would be to aim the ambient mics at the audience rather than the stage. If you already have the isolated tracks from each instrument, the audience is the only thing that you really need to add. Position the mics so that the FOH is in the mics "blind spot" as much as possible. Then on mixdown, either duck or mute the room mics while the band is playing to minimize any remaining issues.
This can work ok if there's not too much bleed from onstage sources. If there is and they are separated by any distance, there will be multiple arrival times and no single correction will do.I prefer dropping the ambient mics by 12-20dB duringthe songs to make the problem disappear into the background while still maintaining a little ofthe feel.
In a typical bar gig, I'm not sure that there will be too much distance. At any rate, even if no single correction will fix it, multiple splits and slips will be quite effective while still being unnoticable. The biggest downside will be the tedious nature of the editing.
Dropping the ambient mics by 12-20dB during the songs is what I was referring to by ducking. It can be done by manually drawing a volume envelope in the track, riding a fader, or by a comp sidechained to another track or subgroup. Although this is not neccesarily standard mixing technique at the bar gig level (I'm certain that it's everyday stuff for someone at your level), it is basic studio mixdown technique.
The challenge is where the ambient track contains multiple arrival times from the sources... no single correction to that track will work but in theory you can delay everything and then correct the direct tracks individually. You have to delay everything so that you can then add "negative delay" or the look ahead factor.
Ducking or dropping the track levels is trivial, we did that in the good 'ol days before DAWs. We even developed some techniques back then that are now emulated by DAW's and called "revolutionary"...
agedhorse wrote:The challenge is where the ambient track contains multiple arrival times from the sources...
And here's where it goes off the rails. IMO the challenge is to find usable content that increases the excitement level of the recording. That does not neccesarily mean that you have to use everything from the entire night in a linear fashion. Of course that may offend some in the sense that it is now not an accurate record of the nights events. But from my point of view, I don't think that the drunk in the back of the room yelling for Free Bird really adds much to the end product. Neither does the waitress shouting drink orders. The raw isolated tracks are going to give enough of a picture of the performance. The audience reaction and ambience is really nothing more than an effect to be used in order to sweeten the end product. In a sense no different than reverb or delay really. And if there aren't enough moments where the audience reaction lasts longer than the decay from the last chord that can be used wherever you please, well, that night has bigger problems than phase and delay issues. But that's just me. 
ChiroVette wrote:Also, what if you put the crwd mic very close to the stage, say between the FOH speakers and in front of the wedge monitors that are pointing back? Won't that both cut down on the delay and give crowd noise, such as applause as well?
Obviously, I have given up on my original question since you guys gave me more information.
Personally I don't use a crowd mic and my crowd mic method is just point the vocal mic at the crowd when I need crowd noise.
Last thing I need in a crowded bar full of drunks is room mic that some drunk might grab and decide to scream into freebird or wanna sing along.
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