Ok, let's get some standard terminology straight, since 7 pages so far hasn't seemed to sink in yet...
When a service size and type is referenced, industry standard is to specify per leg always. a 120/240V, 50 amp, single phase by definition is 2 phase conductors at 50 amps each, 1 neutral conductor and 1 ground conductor. 2 x 50 amp, 120 volt circuits, also providing 1 x 50 amp, 240 volt circuit. Maximum phase current is 50 amps regardless of connection. Always, if following NEMA and code designation. Always.
It's sank in because I understand this. However, you mentioned a key word there that has been brought up multiple times. The "if" the electrician that installed this stuff is doing things "correctly." Fine, if we assume that it has been done correctly, then we can take that your mention of "always" to be the case. But as many have said, DO NOT TRUST previous work of others and ALWAYS do a check with your own stuff. So, that's why I questioned those things. But since it's been explained that 50 amp service was being brought in on two legs, I understood that.
But nobody clerified if that 50 amp service per leg would be good up to 100 amp total load (50 each) before tripping the breaker UNTIL recently. So, I had no clerification until just a little bit ago. Now I do.
120/208V, 3 phase, 100 amp, Y connected is always 3 phase conductors at 100 amp, 1 neutral conductor connected to the junction of the 3 corner phases (1 end of each of the 3 phase windings of the transformer are connected together and to the neutral conductor) and a ground conductor. That's 100 amps, 208 volt, 3 phase, or 3 x 120 volt. Always.
Okay.
There are other configurations such as 208V or 240V delta, 277V/480V, 3 phase Y connected, 120/240V derived from a 3 phase midpoint tapped delta, etc., but these are well beyond anything you will ever encounter at the level you are at and really do not apply other than if you are looking at the internet there are a lot of inaccurate descriptions tossed around that you might get sidetracked with.
And as such, I'm not concerned with that setup at all. And like you said, I may never have to worry about it.
Also, you mention that you can get the cable a lot cheaper... word from the wise and experienced... if you ever buy new UL listed cable for less than 2x the raw copper price with tax & shipping, either it's likely to be stolen, or may not be as represented.
I understand I would need to do my research but it's no different than shopping around for a car. While looking at cable prices, for a 250' cable under the same 6/4, 4/4, or 2/4 description, prices have been significantly different by as much as 5 or 6 times. That's outrageous. However, in some cases, there have been multiple companies that are very similar in price when comparing apples to apples so I know that money can be saved. I'm not looking to buy wire from a company that "steals" it for crying out loud. I'm looking to get legitimate wire from somewhere that is acceptable by codes and safety standards and so on.
I have discovered and rejected cable that looks good until testing and find out that there is some copper clad aluminum, copper clad steel, undersized conductors, etc.
That's good info to know.
Currently, it's about $3.75 (USD) per pound, and with 0.2 lbs/ft for each #2 copper conductor, you will have 0.8 lbs x $3.75/ft = $3/ft x 2 = $6/ft. This is roughly the cost of manufacture of SO type cable excluding freight to the distributor. Add distributor freight, stocking and markups (total ~30%) and that's $7.80/ft x 1.08 (tax) = $8.42 plus shipping, or pretty close to $10/ft. I do this kind of estimating every day, I can smell a rat pretty quickly... that's why I am still in business.
That's fine but if I can get the same cable for $2 a foot as compared to $8 or $10 a foot, I'm going to do it. I understand that I need to be cautious when considering different companies. It's no different than when clients seek our services and make comparisons between our services to others. When they go with someone else, you may feel that they won't get what you offered from someone else. And quite possibly they won't. But what if they do get what you offer for a less price? Is it wrong for the client to seek out other options? Of course not. I'm simply considering options at this point. But I'll do a lot of research to save money. No different than most people. That's not saying you don't know what you're talking about at all. Not one bit. It's just simply stating that I will make comparisons and if those comparisons happen to show that I can get a cable for 1/2 or even a 1/4 of the cost as getting it somewhere else, then so be it.
Now you say that I don't know how much you can lift... yes you are right, but I am also damn sure you can't lift 250 feet of #2/4 cable unless you are a freeking gorilla.
Well, I never said I could lift it all at once. Nobody does (to my knowledge anyway). But that's different than taking the time to unroll a cable and lift "parts" of it at different times. That's not uncommon.
That's 1.3 lbs/ft x 250' = 325 lbs. of unwieldy cable. Dude, I work with this stuff all the time, I know exactly what I am talking about, (where did I ever say that you didn't? I didn't. I simply gave you reasonings for what I found and how I found it. I never attempted to imply that you didn't know what you were talking about. But just because I want to deal with the PITA cable doesn't mean that you have to shove it in my face every other post and act as if "I" don't know that it's heavy. I have dealt with laying these cables out before and YES, I know their heavy. I never said they weren't. I just said that I would deal with it. Or my staff will. Although I appreciate the concern (don't confuse that part), since you don't have to deal with it, why is everyone so adament about attempting to suggest I go a route that may be "less" practical with regard to time, codes, safety, setup, and cost in the long run? If getting multiple cables turns into be a PITA as well, what am I gaining there?
so either you are full of crap that you have worked with and coiled and carried this cable before... or you are unbelievably and stubbornly dense. (I am stubborn but you don't need to call me dense. That's just simply mean and there's no reason for that. I've been very cordial and even though I question a lot of things or have a different idea about how to go about them, it doesn't make me dense. It actually makes me the opposite. But thanks for making me feel like an ass. With over 40,000 posts, I would assume that you've got an unlimited amount of worthy knowledge to help people like me. But to suggest that "I" don't know what I'm talking about just because I do want to deal with the pain of wrapping and unwrapping heavy SOOW cable on a regular basis is just rude in my opinion. I'm not saying I know what you know. It's more than obvious I don't.
But it's not like I don't understand what rolling this stuff up is like.
We could make similar references to things all day long like a DJ who just has to come in and plug in their laptop to a house system that doesn't understand how the house system works with amplification, speakers, processing, and the whole works. Or, we could say a lead singer doesn't know how to setup because they're a lead singer and they don't like to deal with loading and unloading equipment on a regular basis.
So, we could jump to conclusions on both occasions and "assume" that neither one of them has EVER so much as looked at an amp or a crossover or snake and understood how to hook any of that stuff up when indeed, they may know how just from a few times of setting things up themself.
I don't have to roll and unroll heavy SOOW cable everyday to know it's heavy. A few times of helping someone is good enough. If I choose to deal with it more, that's my choice.
If you come here asking for help and explaination, don't freekin argue (where am I arguing here? Because I ask why I am arguing? Getting clarification or accurate answers is just that. I believe you're reading way, way too much into my typed words because that is all that it is. Don't take more out of it than that. That's the problem with forums and groups online. People get too caught up on certain things and there are misunderstandings right and left.
Where am I arguing with you? I don't know what you know and I'll repeat, I'm confident that you have a ton of knowledge that I couldn't begin to imagine having. I'm envious. But asking questions is not arguing and you NEED to understand the difference.
Some people don't want to comment because I'm sure that this subject is either boring, my posts are too lengthy (probably most of it), or they already know the answers and want to move on to something more interesting. And that's fine. Or maybe there are many taking notes like me. But when I'm not "certain" of something, I'm going to ask about it.
Since one person says one thing and then I have someone else discussing something similar (but yet a little different), I want to get accurate info.
Nobody was willing to discuss more details of the 240 volt single phase 14-50R receptacle and its power supply until recently. Early on it was simply a 50 amp service. That doesn't say much. Come to find out, it's "actually" 2 separate 50 amp services on 120 volt legs to a junction center. From there, it is split amongst two separate legs in the junction and can have 50 amps on each leg at a given time. Or (here's the interesting part that nobody would say right away), that it "actualy" has a total of 100 amps available in the junction spread out amongst the entire power supply.
THAT is NOT arguing, that's getting clarification.
and tell (me) that I am wrong. (see above...I have never tried to say you were wrong nor did I ever want to imply that. If you got that impression in any way, I'm sorry for the confusion but understand that when I say I'm getting info from somewhere, I'm just simply letting you know about it).
That's probably rule number one on the road for a newbie. (you know, I may be a "newb" when it comes to stepping up in the power world with regard to my questions about power distros but I'm not someone who just started a company yesterday or last year for that matter. I've been around you know. But everyone's experiences are different. I just happen not to have much in the way of distros. A little, sure. But not much. That doesn't make me a "newb" in this fun world of entertainment by any means.
. tell the experienced tour manager that from what you read he's wrong. (if you actually believe that I was trying to flat out say "you're wrong" then please, rethink that for a second. I wasn't even trying to do that and I don't know why you have to take this to such far extremes on that level when trying to say that you are or were wrong was so far from anything I wanted to comment about. Saying you're wrong is stupid without some backing. Why would I? As I said, simply pointing out that I read it was to reference something rather than just throw up a "nuh uh" statement. If the place I got from is wrong, then please explain why and correct it. That's where I (we) will learn. Not from you getting upset because I simply pointed out where I got it.)
that's career ending in most cases.
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