Live Sound & Production

[vaughn4380]

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abzurd wrote:

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vaughn4380 wrote:
I was looking at how fbt suggests stacking two units and it looks like it only gets up to five and a half feet tall from the ground. How were you planning to set these up?

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Line 6 makes a 5.7" "pole", which I have already. So 2 subs stacked atop each other starts thing off at around 29". The tops are 33" and the braket adds another 3" maybe. So that brings the whole thing to a little over 8'.

When we're on a stage, if the speakers would have to go up there, and I generally am not a fan of it, that's when I'd likely use the front latching part of the subwoofer. Supposedly FBT sells "blanks that fit the front of the sub and then you attach the tops flush to the sub. I've not seen them available anywhere and the one price I saw, albeit in a foreign currency, had them at something like $200 each. No thanks to that. I thought a $29 for a 6" "pole" was pricey.

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Thanks, I really appreciate the info. Those little poles look perfect for stacking two of the tops in the subs. After looking over the paperwork I have again, I can't really envision a scenario where placing a speaker against the front of the subs would be a good idea. It looks like the bottom cabinet would be firing into everyone's ankles, even when they are seated.

We had a very talented B-level group visit our church a while back that had four stacks that looked very similar to these FBT setups. Not sure what brand or model but they were compact, loud, and sounded good to me. Each one had a smaller sub on the bottom and a thin top cabinet mounted to a pole. They put one stack on each outer side of the sanctuary stage to cover the "wings" of the seating area. Then placed the other stacks about ten feet over towards the center of the stage and aimed them straight ahead to cover the main seating area. Since they were so thin, it did not block sight lines at all and still looked professional. These four little stacks put our installed system to shame and easily filled the sanctuary.

After the first set of these is paid off, I am seriously considering a second set to use in a similar fashion when needed, or combine them like you are planning when we need more volume out front. Very versatile.

[jcpatte2]

abzurd, just wondering if you ever got you're second set of Vertus in and what you thought about the system now if you did?

[abzurd]

I have not. Earlier this week I contacted FBT and they told me their container will hit the states in March. So I'm assuming I'll have it end of March beginning of April. We've been using it with good results. I really love those little subs. They just sound good. They are my first front firing design (been using band pass for the last decade). Still find some things quirky about the system, especially in multiples. Unless on a stage, I just don't see a time you'd ever want to latch a top to the front of the sub. Sure, it looks nice, but it's entirely impractical.

We've gotten numerous compliments on the appearance and quality/quantity of sound coming from such a small FOH, including one guy who came running at me during sound check screaming "that's too loud! MUCH too loud!" This was in the largest room we've ever played (3,000 people capacity) with a 6 box line array over our head. I had to calm him down explaining that for sound check we goose the system pretty good to make sure power is OK. 120 foot wide by 40 foot deep stage and  3 single outlets TOTAL... scratches head. Anyway, the gig was a large fund raiser and we were musical wallpaper at about 1/3 the volume of sound check.

[jcpatte2]

Cool. Look forward to hearing more once you take the full monte out for a few shows.

As to the front-latching, I can only think that might make sense if you placing the stack on stage and the stage is maybe 4 ft or taller????? I've been in this situation with my speakers when it was best to place my stack on stage. $.02

[abzurd]

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jcpatte2 wrote:
Cool. Look forward to hearing more once you take the full monte out for a few shows.

As to the front-latching, I can only think that might make sense if you placing the stack on stage and the stage is maybe 4 ft or taller????? I've been in this situation with my speakers when it was best to place my stack on stage. $.02

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Yes, that was the case this past weekend where the stage was about 4 ft tall. That happens maybe 2x a year out of 50. So for 96% of shows it's not practical. Given the size, cost of the system it's logical to assume the vast majority of folks are ground stacking these guys. So, while attractive, the implementation as designed is pretty silly really. It's easily overcome however. If it weren't I'd not have purchased.

[vaughn4380]

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abzurd wrote:

Earlier this week I contacted FBT and they told me their container will hit the states in March. So I'm assuming I'll have it end of March beginning of April.

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Did you get an email yesterday with a revised delivery date? I guess the container won't even be in the country for 5 to 6 weeks? Add in shipping time after it hits the dock and I am hoping to have it by the end of April. We are hitting crunch time with our group and are considering switching our order over to RCF stuff, although renting is a possibility until the FBT stuff gets here.

Bummer though.

[abzurd]

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vaughn4380 wrote:

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abzurd wrote:

Earlier this week I contacted FBT and they told me their container will hit the states in March. So I'm assuming I'll have it end of March beginning of April.

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Did you get an email yesterday with a revised delivery date? I guess the container won't even be in the country for 5 to 6 weeks? Add in shipping time after it hits the dock and I am hoping to have it by the end of April. We are hitting crunch time with our group and are considering switching our order over to RCF stuff, although renting is a possibility until the FBT stuff gets here.

Bummer though.

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Yep. That's the risk I took. I knew FBT had a horrendous reputation for distribution in the states. Funny thing is they are also supposedly known for exceptional customer service over the years. I'm not really sure how those things could be at such a paradox. If I ever need a repair or replacement part, I'm not thinking 6 months is going to be an acceptable timeline. Also, I'm not sure what's good about telling me March for sure then getting an email from the dealer a week later saying they told him, what I'm now calling "sometime in the future but don't hold your breath". If they are saying now 5-6 weeks then it's not even on the way yet. Kind of crappy considering it's a modular system that requires....well, modules!

[dboomer]

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abzurd wrote:

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vaughn4380 wrote:

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abzurd wrote:

Earlier this week I contacted FBT and they told me their container will hit the states in March. So I'm assuming I'll have it end of March beginning of April.

---

Did you get an email yesterday with a revised delivery date? I guess the container won't even be in the country for 5 to 6 weeks? Add in shipping time after it hits the dock and I am hoping to have it by the end of April. We are hitting crunch time with our group and are considering switching our order over to RCF stuff, although renting is a possibility until the FBT stuff gets here.

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Yep. That's the risk I took. I knew FBT had a horrendous reputation for distribution in the states. Funny thing is they are also supposedly known for exceptional customer service over the years. I'm not really sure how those things could be at such a paradox. 

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So speaking with my manufacturer's hat on ... manufacturers make estimated schedules based on promises (or best information available) they get from their suppliers.  And those suppliers make promises based on promises from their suppliers.  One little problem and the whole thing gets pushed back months.  I'll bet the recent Chinese New Year's factored into it.  If you miss dates in early January you can end up missing a whole month as the country basically shuts down.  And it could be for something as simple as a red plastic insert on a knob.  I once missed a speaker line delivery by over 6 weeks because the manufacturer that supplied the cardboard corners for the shipping boxes missed a date.

It's complicated and manufacturer's work very dilligently to not miss dates.  If they miss a date they miss the revenue which doesn't go over well at the BOD meeting.

[abzurd]

Perhaps Don, but supposedly the speakers are made in Italy. Then again, it only takes one part not actually manufactured in Italy to stop the process. The bigger issue is this is a known problem with FBT.... lousy distribution. You can't have good distribution when there's no product.

One of the dealers I work with has been waiting on FBT speaker poles for 14 months. There's no excuse for that. At that point FBT needs to publish what they will be selling in the USA and what they won't and then stock accordingly. Oops, we forgot the speaker poles, I guess we'll send them next year. Shipments only 1 - 2 times a year is ridiculous

[dboomer]

Yep.  NOTHING is made in just one place anymore. 

[jamesewells]

I have a complete FBT Maxx rig, including subs, mains and monitors for my band. I have only needed service twice in the past seven or so years and it has been quick and totally acceptable. They actually have a repair facility in the US and it is possible to speak directly with the repair technician. I had an amp go out in one of the monitors and he actually shipped me one and explained how to change it out over the phone. Saved the time of shipping it to them to perform an easy swap. Just my 2 cents...

[abzurd]

Good to know about the service.

Got great reviews on Saturday. It was the first bar I'd used the system with about 6 weeks ago and I didn't really have it as good as I wanted it. I mean it was OK, but not right.

Anyway, I'd dialed in the EQ since last time (I guess) because we got 2 compliments specifically on the sound. One was a long time waitress and the other was a person who has seen us many times there.

Waitress said "you guys sounded even better than usual"

Patron said "wow, the sound is awesome, did you get some new equipment or something".

I think the main culprit that I fixed was the bass guitar. I've always had trouble at around 100 Hz with HUGE hump in the sound that's forced me to make drastic EQ changes. The previous bass player did it with the tone knob on his bass. The current one is using a bass amp that only has a post-processed output (Line 6 LD150). He was cool was cool when I asked if I could try something and I lowered the "low mids" knob on the amp. Ta-da, clarity to the bass that didn't  make for swells that masked other instruments.

Anyway, long story short, the little system has proven a worthy replacement. I can't wait to get the "other half" and double it up.

[chrispeters]

i had this system for a few gigs i had 2 lots set in stereo very much like conventional system...i just couldnt get on with it ... the bass bins i thought was great sounding and pound away for the size of them ... the poles ( tops ) to me was much to overpowering and harsh and i couldnt tame them no matter how much EQ i tried ... non the less i kept the bass bins and got rid of the poles...the vertus bass bins sound great with my nexo ps10....

[abzurd]

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chrispeters wrote:
i had this system for a few gigs i had 2 lots set in stereo very much like conventional system...i just couldn't get on with it ... the bass bins i thought was great sounding and pound away for the size of them ... the poles ( tops ) to me was much to overpowering and harsh and i couldnt tame them no matter how much EQ i tried ... non the less i kept the bass bins and got rid of the poles...the vertus bass bins sound great with my nexo ps10....

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Interesting. I've actually been using less EQ with the mains over the last few shows. What I've discovered, or at least rationalized, is the "harshness" in mids (centered at around 3K), which I noticed during a lot of pre-recorded listening in my home, actually works in a crowded venue with a high noise floor. Combined with the increased throw of the high end from the line array effect, which really only happens above 3K, the solid mid-range keeps a balanced sound deeper into the room.

Also, since the vocal rides over the mix, the key is to tame the vocal EQ mid, which is where I really noticed the occasional unpleasentness when listening to pre-recorded stuff at home at decently high volumes.

[chrispeters]

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abzurd wrote:

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chrispeters wrote:
i had this system for a few gigs i had 2 lots set in stereo very much like conventional system...i just couldn't get on with it ... the bass bins i thought was great sounding and pound away for the size of them ... the poles ( tops ) to me was much to overpowering and harsh and i couldnt tame them no matter how much EQ i tried ... non the less i kept the bass bins and got rid of the poles...the vertus bass bins sound great with my nexo ps10....

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Interesting. I've actually been using less EQ with the mains over the last few shows. What I've discovered, or at least rationalized, is the "harshness" in mids (centered at around 3K), which I noticed during a lot of pre-recorded listening in my home, actually works in a crowded venue with a high noise floor. Combined with the increased throw of the high end from the line array effect, which really only happens above 3K, the solid mid-range keeps a balanced sound deeper into the room.

Also, since the vocal rides over the mix, the key is to tame the vocal EQ mid, which is where I really noticed the occasional unpleasentness when listening to pre-recorded stuff at home at decently high volumes.

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The system is really great for size and its really loud too.. but my ear isnt suited to them heheheheh

on the other hand , i have friends who love the sound of the shreiky highs in these tubes , some peoples clarity can be other peoples ear fatigue lol ... the bins on the other hand are great for me and at a UK price of around £650 each they are well worth the money for an active stereo sub !!! Most gigs i just use a single vertus bin wi the 2 nexo ... i love it !

[abzurd]

Different strokes I guess. The proof is in people going out their way to specifically compliment so I must be doing OK eqing them. A few weeks ago someone even posted a comment about them on the website guestbook so I guess their working for us.