Live Sound & Production

[Dookietwo]

http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?id=428&cat=67&type=29

Some new stuff from Yorkville.

[abzurd]

Et tu Yorkville?

They used to market the program power, and even name some models after it (NX550P), but now using peak, sigh. And how is 4400 W derived out of 1400 program? Usually it's speced like speakers 700RMS, 1400 program, 2800 peak. So where is 4400 coming from? What a joke.

[RoadRanger]

---

abzurd wrote:

Et tu Yorkville?

So where is 4400 coming from? What a joke.

---

http://www.tv.com/shows/the-4400/ AKA it's science fiction :facepalm:

[Pro Sound Guy]

The load impedance is set in stone internally so I also am not getting the 4400W claim.
Are they saying if you pulled the plate amp out of the loudspeaker
and put a 2ohm load on it you would see 4400W output?
Typo?

[Dookietwo]

"""They used to market the program power, and even name some models after it (NX550P), but now using peak, sigh. And how is 4400 W derived out of 1400 program? Usually it's speced like speakers 700RMS, 1400 program, 2800 peak. So where is 4400 coming from? What a joke.""""

Right. Using program power is kind of a question mark that always came with yorkville specs but now 4400 watts peak? (The point of my thread) Marketing gone Wild!

[Al new member …]

4400 watts. Come on yorkville, this is getting ridiculous... Given the price, they'd better perform pretty well.

Al

[dcastar]

OMG 4400WATTS!??!!!??   *shrug*   Oh, how the mighty have fallen for the marketing trap.  

[Bobby1Note]

I just took a look at the product description, and the way I'm reading it, the 4400w peak rating is the amp-modules' peak rating,,, and the 1400w program rating, is the speaker cabinets' power-handling rating. The 15" box does 129dB "continuous" / 134dB Peak..

If you look at a K-Series box for example; they never tell you what the speakers' power-handling capacity is,,, they just talk about the amp-modules' rating.

One of the other "big guns" (EV I think), talks about a "continuous" rating,,,, and when you dig into the specs a lil' deeper, you realize that they're talking about "continuous music-power",,, in other words, "program power",,,, not RMS.

It's a mine-field out there.

[StratGuy22]

I guess everyone else was doing it so they gave in...

My LS800's were listed at 1500W, now I believe they have somehow increased to 2500W!

:idea:

[agedhorse]

Those in the know understand why it's more profitable marketing to the unwashed masses. Once folks get off of their "I'm an expert because I read the magazines and study the DJ internet sites, and actually learn about what things mean, the truths and realities become much clearer. Unfortunally, that represents less that 10% of the market.

[abzurd]

---

agedhorse wrote:

Those in the know understand why it's more profitable marketing to the unwashed masses. Once folks get off of their "I'm an expert because I read the magazines and study the DJ internet sites, and actually learn about what things mean, the truths and realities become much clearer. Unfortunally, that represents less that 10% of the market.

---

So I guess what your saying is "size matters". Well **Bleep**!

[twostone]

---

agedhorse wrote:

Those in the know understand why it's more profitable marketing to the unwashed masses. Once folks get off of their "I'm an expert because I read the magazines and study the DJ internet sites, and actually learn about what things mean, the truths and realities become much clearer. Unfortunally, that represents less that 10% of the market.

---

[Shaster]

The 4400 are watts that were sent back to earth from the future and... wait, that show's off the air already.

I just did a gig with a fellow that was saying the new QSC speaker line was better than the old QSC 122's because the K line were 1000 watts. I asked him if he really thought his 40 or 50 watt horn was actually seeing 500 watts and he got my point.

But the real point is that BS in marketing works. And it works all too well.

[Bobby1Note]

I may get to audition a set of these boxes, in about 4 weeks time. Yorkville sends my dealer a lot of stuff for his annual inventory sale, which usually happens the second or third weekend in February. Last year, he had a complete set of the ParaLine tops and subs (4 tops, over 4 subs). When I first heard that rig (at fairly low level due to customers in the store), I sorta went "Meh!". A bit later, a customer who owned a discotech walked in, and they cranked those boxes for him. Woah!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Those boxes really came alive when pushed hard, and the clarity and detail surprised the heck out of me. The compact subs thumped very hard as well.

[pdiddy]

Tomorrow I will intorduce a bill to congress that all power amps and powered speakers must be rated in RMS units. If this saves even one musician, we must act now.

[dboomer2]

I understand your frustration ... but your suggestion won't help.

Power amp size (Watts) and speaker power handling have zero to do with with anything.

You have a powered speaker (this one or any one) that puts out X spl.  What difference does it matter whether it took 10W or 1000W to to it?  The only thing that is important is how much it puts out and not what it took to do it (unless you are very power constrained).  That's the number you need to be concerned with.

As far as "RMS" power ratings for power amps.  They have very little to do with what an amp "sounds like" or how "loud" it will get (within reason).  Big power amps come from a day when they were not used for audio but rather for industrial machinery .. and the RMS test was fine for knowing how hard you could push a shaker table.  But these are sine wave tests and music is almost never a continuous sine wave.  

What is important is how much peak power an amp can put out because that will tell you how much music you can put out.  Unfortunately currently there is no standard for how long in duration that peak can be.  But listening to a pair of power amps with the same average power rating will reveal differences if their peak numbers are different.  This is something that you can design into an amplifier if you are not so concerned that it will give you a lower "RMS" rating.

[agedhorse]

It all depends on how peak is defined. If it's 2x the RMS power, then it's exactly the same value expressed two different ways, one is obviously more marketing friendly.

[dboomer2]

On it's face, yes.  But most power amps can't maintain voltage peaks for more than a few milliseconds.  So if a kick drum produces say a 40 or 50 ms peak burst the output voltage will plummet after the first few milliseconds.  So in this case you have an unintended built-in compressor.  This IMHO is a major reason amps sound different.

[agedhorse]

Which is why I asked how the peaks are defined. If they are merely 2x the RMS (continuous) power, the amp will produce this peak voltage (twice for each period) for exactly as long as the amp is capable of delivering it's continuous rating.

If the peak power also included dynamic factors, then you are correct Don, but rarely are the measurement metrics defined in the marketing literature.

[dboomer2]

If the peak power also included dynamic factors, then you are correct Don, but rarely are the measurement metrics defined in the marketing literature.

My point exactly.  This is what you need to put before Congress