Live Sound & Production

[Craigv]

The Bose system will sneak in at that budget amount. There are plenty of detractors here, but this is exactly what the L1 was designed for.

[Rbts]

Originally Posted by Craigv

The Bose system will sneak in at that budget amount. There are plenty of detractors here, but this is exactly what the L1 was designed for.

As I said - there are a lot of good ways to do what you are talking about doing.

I have a firend who has the Bose System for a solo (guitar and vocal) gig - and he loves it (and indeed - it sounds good).

[Randyman]

Shaster hit on a lot of good points. Space in restaurants can be tight, and most of the time great volume/bass is not required. A system I would love to have myself for similar circumstances, would be two 8's (the K8, DSR 8's, the new Mackie DLM 8), augmented with a sub. I would venture to say that in many restaurants, you wouldn't even need the sub, and when you do, your two speakers on a stick are relatively small and can more easily be placed so you have good stereo for your own satisfaction. You'd need to have feedback resistant mics and work at optimal placement of the speakers, but what a pleasure, having stereo keyboard sound!

I know one guy who took a self-powered surround sound system, and rolled his own 4.1 setup. As an extension of the keyboard stand, he had a small stand for two small satellite speakers on each side: one on each side facing towards him, one facing out, and of course a sub at his feet.

The Bose system is pretty ideal in many ways- being inherently feedback resistant, you can easily use it for a monitor and pa, just place it behind you, and is well know for dispersing sound evenly through the room- it would have the smallest footprint and easiest setup, and of course it would be mono. I believe the Bose stick is best suited for guitarist/singer 'cause of the small woofer.

What stage piano are you playing?

[kkelly]

I use a Yamaha CP33.

Personally I've never been impressed with Bose equipment, although I've never encountered any of their PA hardware. The Bose systems I have heard have struck me as just adequate or a little better. While the light weight and simple setup of the L1 does appeal to me, it wouldn't be as flexible as standalone speakers.

I'll probably not worry about a subwoofer initially and add one later if the need is there.

[Craigv]

Don't compare Bose's consumer electronics with the L1. The L1 is well-made and feels robust. I know of one guy who had a failure and a warranty repair, and was satisfied with how it was handled.

I'm not sure what you need to do with the speakers that would render standalone speakers more flexible than the L1. Some details might help in this regard.

A bass module would definitely be needed. I'd give it a road test, and if it's not what you need, then any powered sub would work, and the system is designed to accomodate them.

[Pro Sound Guy]

Originally Posted by kkelly

Hi all. I'm building my first PA system for a solo piano / vocal act. I spent a while at the local music store yesterday, where the live sound guys recommended an A&H ZED 10fx mixer and a pair of either QSC K8 or EV ELV112P active speakers. I probably won't be playing anywhere bigger than a typical sit-down restaurant to start. Does that sound like a good setup for my needs? I'm not on a budget strictly speaking, but I'd like to keep it below $2000.

One of the sound guys said the K8 is on par sonically with the ELV112P despite being smaller. They weren't set up to do a proper A-B test (they're moving everything around), so I couldn't hear them side by side. Can anyone speak to whether that's true?

If you are just a piano and a voice then going with the EV ELX112P gives you two inputs. You would not need the AH Zed. The K series has three inputs? With either model you would not need an outboard mix, and you could plug directly into the powered loudspeaker/s. Witht the Qsc you have piano, mic, and a little ipod or something for break tunes you could input.

[mrcpro]

Originally Posted by kkelly

I use a Yamaha CP33.

I'll probably not worry about a subwoofer initially and add one later if the need is there.

With the possible exception of the Bose L1, for restaurants and piano bars subs are unnecessary and even undesirable for piano amplification (as also mentioned by Shaster). I played piano bars for several years, and they didn't want a big boomy piano. They wanted an unobtrusive natural sounding piano that fit within the ambiance of the room and mixed well with conversational flow.

There are many excellent choices these days (some mentioned in this thread). I wouldn't limit yourself to the two presented to you by the sales team at the store you visited. Practically every showroom has either a CP33 or very similar sounding P155 for you to try cabs out with. At the very least, I'd give the Yamaha DXR10 and DXR12 a spin as well.

[Mutha Goose]

Originally Posted by Craigv

The Bose system will sneak in at that budget amount. There are plenty of detractors here, but this is exactly what the L1 was designed for.

I completely agree with this. I would suggest actually auditioning one before you discount it. I bet if you could get past the auto-reaction to bash, you would be very surprized with it's performance for your needs (as you described them).

[twostone]

Speaking of L1 might also check out HK Elements

[OneEng]

I do really like the K10's .... actually, I like them better than I like the K12's; however, they are not an inexpensive speaker.

The DXR10's go for ~$600.00 ea and sound very good as well.

If you ever want to play any DJ music with any authority, you will be wishing you had that single DXR15 I spoke about instead of the 10's of any kind.

All of the speakers being suggested here are very nice. I don't personally care for the Bose system simply because for the price, you can do better. Still, all of the suggestions are good ones. Go audition a few and see what you like. Make sure you cover your use cases well. If all you want them for is background music as a solo musician, it is different than if you want to also use them for purposes which needs more volume and much more LF.

[kkelly]

I'm not interested in doing any DJ work. This rig will be for live instruments.

I was able to A-B test the K12 and ELX112P. Both sounded equally good. The K12 sounded a little fuller and the ELX112P a little clearer. That store didn't have K10s in stock, so I'll have to hunt around for some I can listen to.

I'll look into the DXRs. They could keep my Yamaha stage piano and grand piano company. The HK Elements system seems to be hard to come by. Do they not sell through traditional outlets?

The gig I have coming up has been expanded and there will be a PA system there I can use, so I have more time to make a decision.

[Rbts]

I am not surprised that the K12 and the ELX112P were "equally good". Each brand will have their own "feel" I guess - but there are many that do sound "really good" and "equally good" too. The Yorkville NX 55P is another really nice sounding cabinet (a 12" speaker with a horn).

[Bobby1Note]

Originally Posted by Rbts

I am not surprised that the K12 and the ELX112P were "equally good". Each brand will have their own "feel" I guess - but there are many that do sound "really good" and "equally good" too. The Yorkville NX 55P is another really nice sounding cabinet (a 12" speaker with a horn).

and it has a prodigious bottom-end, without clouding the vocals, unlike the K-Series which noticeably muddies the vocals when DEEP* is engaged. You can't beat Yorkville's customer-service too, but you'll probably never need it; they're bullet-proof.

[Rbts]

Yea - I did do a lot of testing before I decided on the Yorkville NX 55P as My Choice - and yes - I have never regreted it. I have 8 of them now - and am a happy camper. But a lot of the other cabinets are also very nice.

[OneEng]

Originally Posted by kkelly

I'm not interested in doing any DJ work. This rig will be for live instruments.

I was able to A-B test the K12 and ELX112P. Both sounded equally good. The K12 sounded a little fuller and the ELX112P a little clearer. That store didn't have K10s in stock, so I'll have to hunt around for some I can listen to.

I'll look into the DXRs. They could keep my Yamaha stage piano and grand piano company. The HK Elements system seems to be hard to come by. Do they not sell through traditional outlets?

The gig I have coming up has been expanded and there will be a PA system there I can use, so I have more time to make a decision.

The Yorkville NX55p's are indeed a full sounding speaker, and for your application would be very good.

I agree with your assessment of the K12 and ELX112P as that was my experience as well.

Unfortunately, it is unlikely that you will find any NX55p's to audition in GC, so you would have to look around to find them.

The K12's are a little more expensive compared to the ELX112p's. The ELX's have a pretty crappy finish though.

Give a listen to the DXR's. They are pretty good sounding speakers as well. I have never A/B'd them against the K12's (I did the older (and arguably one step up) DSR series which is nearly impossible to find now).

All of these speakers are very good and will be quite good for a solo act.

[Bugzie]

I've seen the Bose L1 used for this application successfully on many occasions. The one thing I don't like is the sub module. Todays keyboards can do so much that a sub makes a HUGE difference and the Bose module just isn'y enough IMHO. If you have a good left hand then you really need to audition your choices with a sub. Try them with the tops full range without the subs and with the tops/subs setup at the correct crossover points. At that point the choice will be either to spend the money or not for the difference. I regularly rent a piano rig to a customer. Yamaha Motif XS8, QSC HPR122i's, and a Traynor K4 keyboard amp. The Traynor is used for both the mixer and monitor. One night I added a pair of Proel Flash 15's(a mediocre 15" sub) that I had picked up when they were dirt cheap, just to see how much difference it would make. The customer now demands them. It was an eye opening experience. I've heard the K8's, and have to say that they surpassed my expectations. But they will lack in low end. I would reccomend at least the 12's. Of course this is all dependant on the genre of music, size of venue,.....etc. The mono/stereo debate for keys is another thing to keep in mind.

[Rbts]

I am not against the Bose System either - BUT - the other thing with a Bose system - is that it pretty much just does what it does - and the future is uncertain. IF someone were to buy two NX 55P speakers to do this with - for one thing - it would work great - and then who knows what the future brings - maybe next year they're in some band - and using the NX55P speakers for "some other" purpose. They are very functional in a variety of ways - GREAT LITTLE UTILITY CABINET. (The Bose - um maybe not so much - just saying.)

[GigMan]

Originally Posted by kkelly

I'm not interested in doing any DJ work. This rig will be for live instruments.

I was able to A-B test the K12 and ELX112P. Both sounded equally good. The K12 sounded a little fuller and the ELX112P a little clearer. That store didn't have K10s in stock, so I'll have to hunt around for some I can listen to.

I'll look into the DXRs. They could keep my Yamaha stage piano and grand piano company. The HK Elements system seems to be hard to come by. Do they not sell through traditional outlets?

The gig I have coming up has been expanded and there will be a PA system there I can use, so I have more time to make a decision.

I am a kybd. player & I own both a pair of QSC K10's and QSC K12's - bought 'em sight unseen/or heard... and I love 'em - both!! - - and I even sprung for the 90 dollar QSC padded bags custom made for each model cabinet... pricey but they keep them looking new, even after a few yrs. - - plus the pocket on side of the bag is perfect to keep the pwr. cord in for each spkr.

I sometimes use the K12's for PA mains and the K10's for stage monitors and also kybd. monitoring, running from a Soundcraft MFXi8 mixer... if I'm providing PA on a gig.

I sometimes use the pair of K10's w/a small Yammie MG10cx mixer as a killer kbyd. rig if I'm just showing up to be "kybd. player" guy and someone ELSE is running PA.

The K8's sound good also but just will NOT have enough bass for you.

The K10's should do fine for a solo act - they put out a surprising amount of bass for their size.

The K12's are worth considering if you ever plan to do more than just a solo act - you can use them as your mains and eventually add a pair of K10's for floor monitors, for duo, trio, 4piece (etc.), i.e. - - gigs that are more than just solo performances.

[GigMan]

Originally Posted by Pro Sound Guy

If you are just a piano and a voice then going with the EV ELX112P gives you two inputs. You would not need the AH Zed. The K series has three inputs? With either model you would not need an outboard mix, and you could plug directly into the powered loudspeaker/s. Witht the Qsc you have piano, mic, and a little ipod or something for break tunes you could input.

But neither the ELX112P or the K Series cabinets have built in reverb or delay, so unless he has an absolutely astonishing voice - - that needs NO help from effects whatsoever... - - it is better to have a small mixer w/the built-in FX - - plus you can easily control/adjust volume from a small mixer that is right at your fingertips, which is sometimes necessary in a piano bar situation - you turn up later in the night, when the room is louder and filled w/more drunken/boisterous people

If he's plugged directly into spkrs., without a mixer - he'd have to get up from the piano, walk over to the spkr. stands & fiddle w/the volume on the back of each spkr. separately - - not cool, not convenient & not professional at all...

[Craigv]

Originally Posted by Bugzie

I've seen the Bose L1 used for this application successfully on many occasions. The one thing I don't like is the sub module. Todays keyboards can do so much that a sub makes a HUGE difference and the Bose module just isn'y enough IMHO. If you have a good left hand then you really need to audition your choices with a sub. Try them with the tops full range without the subs and with the tops/subs setup at the correct crossover points. At that point the choice will be either to spend the money or not for the difference. I regularly rent a piano rig to a customer. Yamaha Motif XS8, QSC HPR122i's, and a Traynor K4 keyboard amp. The Traynor is used for both the mixer and monitor. One night I added a pair of Proel Flash 15's(a mediocre 15" sub) that I had picked up when they were dirt cheap, just to see how much difference it would make. The customer now demands them. It was an eye opening experience. I've heard the K8's, and have to say that they surpassed my expectations. But they will lack in low end. I would reccomend at least the 12's. Of course this is all dependant on the genre of music, size of venue,.....etc. The mono/stereo debate for keys is another thing to keep in mind.

I agree that the Bose bass module isn't a sub, but it's also not called a sub, and of course it was designed to be as small as possible. I'll reiterate that you can use any powered sub with the L1 systems, and if you've got a keyboard I'd definitely recommend going the sub route. Just keep the tradeoffs in mind, as nearly any sub will be larger and outweigh the Bose bass module.