Live Sound & Production

[gspin]

Hi guys,

Wanted to hear your collective wisdom on gigging in Europe with U.S. gear.  Specifically, a gig in Finland using a bunch of rack gear and pedals all at 110v. I will also be using a Macbook and Metric Halo 2882.  Some of the gear can also be used at 240 v, but let's focus on the stuff that can't.

My question is, considering it is one-man gig, would you ask the venue to provide a step down transformer or would you bring your own, and, in each case, with what specs?

My brief research indicates I should avoid autotransformers and use an isolation transformer instead.  But isolation transformers weigh much more (and are more expensive).

It also seems that if you use a U.S. power strip with surge protection with an autotransformer, you risk frying the power strip (which, would not be great during a gig of course).

Any advice would be much appreciated!

cheers

gspin

[djiceman1575]

Just an idea, any chance of also bringing a powerful enough generator and distro rack that will power what you need?

[gspin]

It being a one man gig, the constraints on shipping are huge... both in terms of costs and in terms of lower back pain   I am trying to reduce the overall weight as much as I can.   Thanks for the thought though...

[Shaster]

Someone else was asking about this a few months ago - or maybe that was you.

I would suggest getting in touch with your promoters or sound providers. IME many people in Finland speak English so it shouldn't be a problem communicating by email or whatever. Explain your situation and see if they already have a solution.

It's been decades since I've been to Europe, but the last time I went they had stepped down power bars for our gear IIRC.  While I was there, I also purchased European AC adaptors for my pedals. My band brought minimal keyboards and used the stage amps that were provided. In light of weight restrictions, I would advise that you look at your set-up and determine how much gear (weight) you think you need, versus how much gear you really need.

Also, the amount of time and money you invest might depend on how long you're playing there (or how much money you're making).

[djiceman1575]

It was just a thought. I didn't know how big of a rig you were taking, if you could rent and throw in something like a Honda EU generator or something.

[wesg]

What gear can't be used at 240? If its just pedals...get new AC adaptors!

Be careful stepping down amps with linear power supplies, some transformers will overheat if used at too low of a frequency.

And don't even think about using a step down transformer on a Hammond organ...the to ewheels will spin about a third flat!

[gspin]

That's a very good point.  I am thinking my Fractal Audio Axe FX II first of all.  There are reports of failures of the power supply unit of their 240v models and so methinks why risk my US 110V model?... maybe that is totally incoherent but hey.  Then a bunch of Eventide Stomp Boxes a Marshall JMP-1 ... a Ground Control Pro an RJM audio swithcher, a bunch of pedals and so forth....

How can I be sure all this can run at 240V?  RTFM perhaps?

An added question is how to protect against power surges?  You can't use a US one without an isolated transformer (or so I understand)...

Thanks all for the suggestions.

[StratGuy22]

Pocket Pod runs on batteries.

[wesg]

You can surge protect the transformer. But, man, I hate those things, if you are plugging anything in that draws a lot of power it will be HEAVY.

RTFM helps. Looks at your power supplies, also. Most new SMPS gear is marked 100-240VAC. Linear power supplies are sooooo last century.

So, for example, I just RTFMd the manual for your Axe FX II. You just need to change the cord, no transformer -- page 177 says Input Power: 100–240 VAC, 47 – 63 Hz (universal input).

Looks like your Marshall JMP-1 might need one, though, argh, stupid Marshall. What does it say underneath the IEC connector on yours?

Your Ground Control Pro uses a 9VAC brick. Replace the brick. Not sure with RJM audio gear you have, but the Rack Gizmo takes either 9VAC or 12VDC bricks; again, replace the brick.

Anyhow, just my opinion, which is founded on mostly hating transformers.

And remember, any North American brick which has a transformer in it may fail when run at 50Hz because the slower frequency can cause the core to saturate. Transformers don't fix the frequency, only the voltage. 9VAC bricks almost certainly have transformers. Lightweight, small DC bricks almost certainly are SMPS.

[gspin]

Thanks Wesg

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wesg wrote:
You can surge protect the transformer. But, man, I hate those things, if you are plugging anything in that draws a lot of power it will be HEAVY.

RTFM helps. Looks at your power supplies, also. Most new SMPS gear is marked 100-240VAC. Linear power supplies are sooooo last century.

So, for example, I just RTFMd the manual for your Axe FX II. You just need to change the cord, no transformer -- page 177 says Input Power: 100–240 VAC, 47 – 63 Hz (universal input).

Looks like your Marshall JMP-1 might need one, though, argh, stupid Marshall. What does it say underneath the IEC connector on yours?

Your Ground Control Pro uses a 9VAC brick. Replace the brick. Not sure with RJM audio gear you have, but the Rack Gizmo takes either 9VAC or 12VDC bricks; again, replace the brick.

Anyhow, just my opinion, which is founded on mostly hating transformers.

And remember, any North American brick which has a transformer in it may fail when run at 50Hz because the slower frequency can cause the core to saturate. Transformers don't fix the frequency, only the voltage. 9VAC bricks almost certainly have transformers. Lightweight, small DC bricks almost certainly are SMPS.

---

Thanks wesg, that was very helpful.  I had read the Axe Fx manual, my issue there is a lot of European users have reported failures in the PSU of the Axe.  At any rate, when you say change the cable, do you mean use a "travel adapter"?  When you say replace the brick for the Ground Control Pro, do you mean by a European brick for it?  Or get some compatible DC brick and use an adapter.  I will write to Voodoo Labs, but thanks again for the very valuable advice!  Incidentally, since I only have four pedals running with a Voodoo Lab Pedal Power, I am thinking of going with either a Pedal Power 2 Plus or 9V batteries.  I guess the batteries will impact the sound somewhat.... (2 fuzzes, one overdrive, one distortion).

[wesg]

I don't know what to say about the European user reports. The manufacturer designed it to work, is it a quality product?

As for changing the cable....I am looking at a picture of the back of the unit. It looks like it takes an IEC cable, just like your computer. You should have no problem buying one when you get there, or you can order one in advance if you know what kind of plug they use in the country you're headed to.

You can either source bricks in Europe, or locally and use a travel adapter if necessary. It is not hard anymore to find DC bricks which are SMPS internally and rated for 240VAC.

The devices which are limited to AC are a little trickier. If they take batteries, I would go that route first. Next I would contact the manufacturer and try to buy a suitable adapter for europe. Third, I would hit a thrift shop after I land!

Batteries should not impact your sound audibly if this stuff is built properly and you are not using dead batteries. Your audience is not sitting there with spectrum analyzers and distortion meters, they want to listen to your music. If it sounds good, it is good.

Wes

[gspin]

.

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wesg wrote:
I don't know what to say about the European user reports. The manufacturer designed it to work, is it a quality product?

As for changing the cable....I am looking at a picture of the back of the unit. It looks like it takes an IEC cable, just like your computer. You should have no problem buying one when you get there, or you can order one in advance if you know what kind of plug they use in the country you're headed to.

You can either source bricks in Europe, or locally and use a travel adapter if necessary. It is not hard anymore to find DC bricks which are SMPS internally and rated for 240VAC.

The devices which are limited to AC are a little trickier. If they take batteries, I would go that route first. Next I would contact the manufacturer and try to buy a suitable adapter for europe. Third, I would hit a thrift shop after I land!

Batteries should not impact your sound audibly if this stuff is built properly and you are not using dead batteries. Your audience is not sitting there with spectrum analyzers and distortion meters, they want to listen to your music. If it sounds good, it is good.

Wes

---

Wes, thanks for all this valuable advice.  For one thing, I have confirmed the JMP-1 will only run on 120V.  So I will be needing a transformer for that.  Also, the Eventide Stompboxes PSUs are rated 120VAC, 60Hz, 15W / 9VDC 1200mA.  I guess that means their input is AC?  Excuse my ignorance.  In any event, since it looks like I would be needing a transformer for the JMP-1, wouldn't it be simpler to use it for all the gear?  Or will I run into problems due to the frequency difference (50Hz instead of 60Hz)?

Many thanks.

[StratGuy22]

Any way to rent or buy the same gear there, then return or sell it when you are done?

[agedhorse]

It looks like you will be traveling with some pretty tiny loads. If that is indeed the case, the difference in weight between an autotransformer and an isolated secondary transformer is pretty small, especially in a toroid.

While an isolated secondary (not a true isolation transformer BTW, which uses low capacitance, low leakage winding techniques) may offer some minor benefits in the event of miswiring, in general there is no difference whatsoever in either preformance or safety on a grounded power system using modern equipment. SOME very old, vintage amps can have issues but that's more of a special case.

Now frequency can have an impact, but many line frequency transformers are designed for 50/60Hz even if it's 115V only. It pays to consult with the manufacturer on this. All SMPS based power supplies are frequency independant, most are switchable.

Before you leave, put a piece of tape over every power plug reminding you to pay attention to voltage and to discourage helpful folks from connecting the gear to power for you  with out paying attention.

[gspin]

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agedhorse wrote:

It looks like you will be traveling with some pretty tiny loads. If that is indeed the case, the difference in weight between an autotransformer and an isolated secondary transformer is pretty small, especially in a toroid.

While an isolated secondary (not a true isolation transformer BTW, which uses low capacitance, low leakage winding techniques) may offer some minor benefits in the event of miswiring, in general there is no difference whatsoever in either preformance or safety on a grounded power system using modern equipment. SOME very old, vintage amps can have issues but that's more of a special case.

Now frequency can have an impact, but many line frequency transformers are designed for 50/60Hz even if it's 115V only. It pays to consult with the manufacturer on this. All SMPS based power supplies are frequency independant, most are switchable.

Before you leave, put a piece of tape over every power plug reminding you to pay attention to voltage and to discourage helpful folks from connecting the gear to power for you  with out paying attention.

---

Thanks much.  Just so I understand: are you saying there is very little difference between an autotransformer and an isolated secondary transformer?  If so, do you mean I should go with a good autotransformer that weighs much less (or to the contrary that I should go with an isolated secondary because the added weight is not that much). 

When you refer to the small loads are you referring to overall wattage?  Many thanks again Agedhorse, great advice as ususal.

[Shaster]

Have you talked to your promoters or sound providers yet?  I still recommend starting there first. As I said before, you might not have to reinvent the wheel.

The last time I played Helsinki (many years ago) my band simply walked in with our pedals, keyboards and so on, and the sound crew took care of us. I imagine things today would be better, not worse (although I could be wrong). That's why I say start by finding out what the sound company....  does for other N.A. acts.

[agedhorse]

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gspin wrote:

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agedhorse wrote:

It looks like you will be traveling with some pretty tiny loads. If that is indeed the case, the difference in weight between an autotransformer and an isolated secondary transformer is pretty small, especially in a toroid.

While an isolated secondary (not a true isolation transformer BTW, which uses low capacitance, low leakage winding techniques) may offer some minor benefits in the event of miswiring, in general there is no difference whatsoever in either preformance or safety on a grounded power system using modern equipment. SOME very old, vintage amps can have issues but that's more of a special case.

Now frequency can have an impact, but many line frequency transformers are designed for 50/60Hz even if it's 115V only. It pays to consult with the manufacturer on this. All SMPS based power supplies are frequency independant, most are switchable.

Before you leave, put a piece of tape over every power plug reminding you to pay attention to voltage and to discourage helpful folks from connecting the gear to power for you  with out paying attention.

---

Thanks much.  Just so I understand: are you saying there is very little difference between an autotransformer and an isolated secondary transformer?  If so, do you mean I should go with a good autotransformer that weighs much less (or to the contrary that I should go with an isolated secondary because the added weight is not that much). 

When you refer to the small loads are you referring to overall wattage?  Many thanks again Agedhorse, great advice as ususal.

---

Correct, provided you are not using any vintage, ugrounded amps (which should be modified to bring them up to reasonably current safety standards anyway).

[gspin]

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Shaster wrote:

Have you talked to your promoters or sound providers yet?  I still recommend starting there first. As I said before, you might not have to reinvent the wheel.

The last time I played Helsinki (many years ago) my band simply walked in with our pedals, keyboards and so on, and the sound crew took care of us. I imagine things today would be better, not worse (although I could be wrong). That's why I say start by finding out what the sound company....  does for other N.A. acts.

---

Will do of course.  I just want to make sure I know what is really needed.  cheers

[gspin]

Just some more thoughts on this topic.

I could buy a Voodoo Lab 4X4 which should take care of the Eventides and other pedals.  I could even buy one on site (in Finland) and avoid using a step down transformer for them.  But it seems to me that since I will be needing a transformer for the Marshall JMP-1 in any case, that I might as well use it for the rest of the gear (other than the Axe Fx II for which getting a European cable is a very simple fix).

Any thoughts?  Bottom line, is it worth going unit by unit trying to find a 240V friendly PSU when I know I am going to need a transformer anyway?

[Coaster]

i've been on several european tours and i've seen a lot of US equipment brought over there with proper transformers/converters and much of it didnt survive. i even lost a couple devices that were setup for 250V that just burned up one day after weeks of working fine.

the last trip i took over there the bass player asked me about bringing his hartke amp over and what would he need? i said dont bring it - you will burn it up. just rent one over there instead. he got mad, didnt listen, brought it over and it burned up on the third day. he then rented one over there for the rest of the trip. we havent talked much since as he is still pissed at me for being right.

i think the issue is not voltage as that can be corrected but rather the cycles. many locales are 50hz and this seems to cause issues with the phase angle or somesuch. i dont claim to be an expert but i cannot count the number of items i have personally seen burn up over there. i no longer bring any devices to europe that do not run on bettery, its not really an issue for a=ma anymore as i refuse to fly as long as the TSA remains in power. i will not submit to the TSA.