Live Sound & Production

[megabass]

Performed out first gig with the New RCF ART 315's last night, and they were FANTASTIC. The venue had a really bizarre setup with the stage basically in the front window. However, it gave everyone who walked by a great view of the back of the band, but an excellent view of everyone on the dance floor. That would explain the line out front throughout the entire gig. The people outside were enjoying the show just as much as the people inside. Anyway, the venue was really narrow in width, but really deep. We just used a speaker each side on a a pole, and only (1) of the EV subs, because the band area was REALLY small. We started with the RCF's only at about twelve O'Clock. During sound check it sounded great, but once the place reached maximum capacity, which was 225 people, I had to crank them to about 3 O'clock. Of course, everything else other than the vocals had to be turned down. Once we did that, it was PRIMO for the rest of the gig. They clipped every now and then, but that's about it. IMO, they put out more sound at 3/4 volume than the EV's put out at full volume. I Still can't understand that one, but I am SUPER happy with them!

[gonzobassman]

I hear nothing but good things about the RCF stuff!

[agedhorse]

Of course you do know that knob position does not equate volume across different products and different drive levels right???

[megabass]

Of course you do know that knob position does not equate volume across different products and different drive levels right???

Correct, but I still have trouble processing how the RCF, which is rated at 350 watts, is louder than the EV, which is rated at 1000 watts. In fact, I run the EV's with the gain in the full position all of the time, and the RCF's at 3/4 gain setting are STILL louder with better tonal quality. :confused:

[agedhorse]

Correct, but I still have trouble processing how the RCF, which is rated at 350 watts, is louder than the EV, which is rated at 1000 watts. In fact, I run the EV's with the gain in the full position all of the time, and the RCF's at 3/4 gain setting are STILL louder with better tonal quality. :confused:

It doesn't matter what the knob position is. The amps have a different sensitivity for rated output. Turn the RCF's down to so that when you go back and forth, the volumes are the same and now drive both of them hard. See if the EV's are maybe feeling a bit more equal.

This is why manufacturers don't bother with meaningful specs on low end equipment, it's a waste of time.

[megabass]

It doesn't matter what the knob position is. The amps have a different sensitivity for rated output. Turn the RCF's down to so that when you go back and forth, the volumes are the same and now drive both of them hard. See if the EV's are maybe feeling a bit more equal. This is why manufacturers don't bother with meaningful specs on low end equipment, it's a waste of time.

I will try that. I will borrow my friends Sony sound frequency tester, which you can adjust to put out a constant signal at pretty much any frequency. Then I will choose two or three frequencies to run through both sets of speakers, and use my digital decimal meter at three different levels and notice the gain setting of each. This may actually be fun.

[dboomer]

Correct, but I still have trouble processing how the RCF, which is rated at 350 watts, is louder than the EV, which is rated at 1000 watts. ... :confused:

Are these the power handling rating numbers? If so they have nothing to do with potential output level.

[megabass]

They are powered speakers, so I have no idea.

[twostone]

I will try that. I will borrow my friends Sony sound frequency tester, which you can adjust to put out a constant signal at pretty much any frequency. Then I will choose two or three frequencies to run through both sets of speakers, and use my digital decimal meter at three different levels and notice the gain setting of each. This may actually be fun.

It might be fun but keep in mind because I'm hardly a expert by any means, but common sense tells me. The single frequencies will lack any dynamic range vs micing a live band with dynamic range all over the place.
I'm sure Don or Andy will set me straight if I'm dead wrong.

[megabass]

It might be fun but keep in mind because I'm hardly a expert by any means, but common sense tells me. The single frequencies will lack any dynamic range vs micing a live band with dynamic range all over the place.
I'm sure Don or Andy will set me straight if I'm dead wrong.

I thought about that, but it is really hard to get an accurate reading with programmed music because of the dynamics. That is why i am using three different frequency settings. I can measure the speakers ability to reproduce sound at different frequencies AND different levels. My guess is that the speaker that can accomplish that the best will be a better sounding speaker with anything that you put through it.

[agedhorse]

Do NOT use tones, inexperienced folks can easily damage a speaker this way without realizing it. It also tells you next to nothing because on a tone, any measurement will be potentially skewed by reflections.

You can use pink noise (a broadband series of (essentially) tones but filtered to provide a more realistic (and safer) distribution of energy for setting your baseline (do this at about 85dB at 10' from the speakers). Do not use this for louder tests as it lacks typical music crest factors and you could quite possibly damage something

Then, just use music and make a subjective listen. Have both speakers set so that the limit LED just flashes and that will give you a good and somewhat realistic comparison.

[camplg]

Performed out first gig with the New RCF ART 315's last night, and they were FANTASTIC. The venue had a really bizarre setup with the stage basically in the front window. However, it gave everyone who walked by a great view of the back of the band, but an excellent view of everyone on the dance floor. That would explain the line out front throughout the entire gig. The people outside were enjoying the show just as much as the people inside. Anyway, the venue was really narrow in width, but really deep. We just used a speaker each side on a a pole, and only (1) of the EV subs, because the band area was REALLY small. We started with the RCF's only at about twelve O'Clock. During sound check it sounded great, but once the place reached maximum capacity, which was 225 people, I had to crank them to about 3 O'clock. Of course, everything else other than the vocals had to be turned down. Once we did that, it was PRIMO for the rest of the gig. They clipped every now and then, but that's about it. IMO, they put out more sound at 3/4 volume than the EV's put out at full volume. I Still can't understand that one, but I am SUPER happy with them!

Great review thanks!!!! After buying my first set of RCFs I turned into an RCF fan, they are great sounding speakers at an awesome price!!!!!

[dboomer]

Yeah ... using single frequencies your measurements could vary a lot (+/- 30 dB) by simply moving the measurement mic a few feet one way or the other. A noise signal (preferably Pink) will work much better. What is is you hope to accomplish again?

[megabass]

Yeah ... using single frequencies your measurements could vary a lot (+/- 30 dB) by simply moving the measurement mic a few feet one way or the other. A noise signal (preferably Pink) will work much better. What is is you hope to accomplish again?

Still trying to grasp this concept of how a 350 watt speaker is louder puts out more sound than a CLAIMED 1000 watt speaker. I understand that is has to do with efficiency and yadda, yadda, yadda. However, I want to please my own curiosity.

[twostone]

Yeah ... using single frequencies your measurements could vary a lot (+/- 30 dB) by simply moving the measurement mic a few feet one way or the other. A noise signal (preferably Pink) will work much better.

What is is you hope to accomplish again?

Why his new 350w RFC's is louder then his 1000w EV's.

[twostone]

Still trying to grasp this concept of how a 350 watt speaker is louder puts out more sound than a CLAIMED 1000 watt speaker. I understand that is has to do with efficiency and yadda, yadda, yadda. However, I want to please my own curiosity.

1000 watt amp so you got a 1000 watt amp not 1000 watts worth of drivers. JBL and QSC do the same thing.
Your EV use a 250w rms LF driver and I think a 75w rms HF driver powered by a "1000 watt amp"

[OneEng]

1000 watt amp so you got a 1000 watts not 1000 watts worth of drivers. JBL and QSC do the same thing.
Your EV use a 250w rms LF driver and I think a 75w rms HF driver powered by a "1000 watt amp"

Even then, the efficiency of the speaker isn't taken into account. SPL is a better gauge ..... but SPL under what conditions ..... and at what quality?

[megabass]

Even then, the efficiency of the speaker isn't taken into account. SPL is a better gauge ..... but SPL under what conditions ..... and at what quality?

You would think so, but the EV's are rated at 134db max, and the RCF's are rated at 128db max. I think the end of your statement says it all. "Under what conditions?" When YOU are administering a test, and have control over the parameters, the results can be whatever you want.

[twostone]

Even then, the efficiency of the speaker isn't taken into account. SPL is a better gauge ..... but SPL under what conditions ..... and at what quality?

I was just stating that some of these companies use their 1000 watt amp as their 1000 watt selling point just like the kid I met a few weeks ago who just bought a JBL PRX612/618 rig and swears up and down that he own a 4000 watt system because of the 1000 watt amp that JBL is using as their selling point.

I know the kid doesn't have clue what the specs say on the paper work. He based his judgment on the 1000 watts claim like most folks do. Beside I read over and over Age claiming specs don't mean squat now a days so how one go about buying speaker if the specs don't mean any thing?

[Kevin T]

My elx112 are better than your RCFs ! Why because they won the big un -used amp war