Live Sound & Production

[leehilder371]

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leehilder371 wrote:

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agedhorse wrote:
No sir, not laughing behind your back (though if you keep your misinformation and argument up YOU may create this situation yourself), just providing factual information to correct your incorrect assumption. I suggest that you read the features section (for lay folks) that discusses the dsp portion of the produce.

Since I service this stuff, I have service and support docs. that clearly show the dsp and I have done enough analysis to be confident my information is correct and very accurate in every detail.

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Had I have known your experience I would have not posted that comment, sorry and please continue for my and everyone's benifit 

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I also have a question: would the prx600 series be the equivalent of the PRX400 series+ Crown's xti 2 series put together? 

[twostone]

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I also have a question: would the prx600 series be the equivalent of the PRX400 series+ Crown's xti 2 series put together? 

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  Pretty sure the 600s are step up from the 400s and the 600s would out perform the 400s.

I'm sure Age here could elaborate more about the difference since IIRC was a JBL service tech rep once upon time.

[OneEng]

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leehilder371 wrote:

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leehilder371 wrote:

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agedhorse wrote:
No sir, not laughing behind your back (though if you keep your misinformation and argument up YOU may create this situation yourself), just providing factual information to correct your incorrect assumption. I suggest that you read the features section (for lay folks) that discusses the dsp portion of the produce.

Since I service this stuff, I have service and support docs. that clearly show the dsp and I have done enough analysis to be confident my information is correct and very accurate in every detail.

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Had I have known your experience I would have not posted that comment, sorry and please continue for my and everyone's benefit 

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I also have a question: would the prx600 series be the equivalent of the PRX400 series+ Crown's xti 2 series put together? 

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I don't believe so.  Here is why:

1. The Crown xti is a general purpose power amplifier.  It has been designed to operate on a wide range of speaker designs while the processing inside the PRX600 series is VERY specific to each speaker.  In engineering it is ALWAYS easier to design very well for a single set of parameters instead of many sets.
2. The PRX600 uses a Neo driver while the PRX400 uses either ceramic or ferrite drivers.  What this means is that the weigh of the 400 is going to be much higher for the same output.
3. I think that JBL figures that the PRX600 is more than good enough for most bands .... ie, you can make the speaker cheaper and still meet the requirements of most bands.  To be fair, all the major speaker manufacturers have come out with a "good enough" powered speaker after first releasing their "really good" MI grade powered speakers.

I think that those of us that purchased PRX600 series speakers (I am one of them) are very happy we got on the bandwagon before the speakers were "down-sized"

[agedhorse]

Not as easy of a question as it seems...

First of all, in order for the performance to be the same, the processing must be the same and thx driver compliment must be the same. The drivers are different, I haven't tested the 400 but wih the weight being considerably higher (plux the weight of thd amp) makes equal performance pretty much impossible IF weight is part of the performance package.

Then, there's the difference in processing between the XTi and what's on board the PRX-600 series. Not just the parameter data but also what's available (such as 8th order filters, specific dynamics).

[heath_eld]

Why would you want to? On the prices here in aus, the passive option would be more expensive, when it seems that the absolute best case scenario would be that they sounded similar (and most folks seem to think that the PRX 600 series are a better quality product anyway).

[heath_eld]

PS How do you "reply with quote" on this new forum? 

[heath_eld]

Also - seeing as someone re-opened this thread i guess i could write some comments 18 months on in answer to what i posted earlier. 

As i said above i went with the EVs ELX112p over 118s. Basically because i was quite happy with the sound in store (could have gone with the JBLs happily), the EV subs were much lighter, and mostly, price. 

I'm perfectly happy. I do sometimes wonder what the JBLs would have been like (especially the subs which are much better on paper). But the extra size really puts me off. 

Yes - The EVs mark and scuff something shocking and constantly need touching up. For the work i do, just covers bands, the tops are always loud enough for small bars and 100-200 person functions. The subs are sometimes a bit light on, depending on the room, but this is rare. They dont get that real concert level thump on miked drums but they do the job all the same.  

I have come to like the sound - warm and smooth, never harsh. One day i might buy a second set, so i hope EV dont delete them any time soon. 

I reckon i would have been happy either way. The JBLs have gotten cheaper here since i wrote this, but the EVs have actually gone up. You'd be looking at A$4000 for the EV set or A$4800 for the JBLs now. On those prices maybe i would have gone the other way. 

[Mutha Goose]

(Disclaimer: I have no experience with the ELXs and a LOT with the JBLs) From what I am reading here, the biggest difference between the EVs and the JBLs is not audio quality, but component quality. I/O jacks, cabinet construction, finish, etc...

So the cost advantage at purchase may not be a cost advantage in the long run if the product "wears out" sooner or requires more regular maintence over the long haul.

Just my observations of the content of this thread.

[bigjd]

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heath_eld wrote:

Also - seeing as someone re-opened this thread i guess i could write some comments 18 months on in answer to what i posted earlier. 

As i said above i went with the EVs ELX112p over 118s. Basically because i was quite happy with the sound in store (could have gone with the JBLs happily), the EV subs were much lighter, and mostly, price. 

I'm perfectly happy. I do sometimes wonder what the JBLs would have been like (especially the subs which are much better on paper). But the extra size really puts me off. 

Yes - The EVs mark and scuff something shocking and constantly need touching up. For the work i do, just covers bands, the tops are always loud enough for small bars and 100-200 person functions. The subs are sometimes a bit light on, depending on the room, but this is rare. They dont get that real concert level thump on miked drums but they do the job all the same.  

I have come to like the sound - warm and smooth, never harsh. One day i might buy a second set, so i hope EV dont delete them any time soon. 

I reckon i would have been happy either way. The JBLs have gotten cheaper here since i wrote this, but the EVs have actually gone up. You'd be looking at A$4000 for the EV set or A$4800 for the JBLs now. On those prices maybe i would have gone the other way. 

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I also have been very happy with my EV's. Now I have 4 of the subs with 2 tops. If I think I'm gonna need extra bass I cluster the subs together,but for the most part have never run out of power for any of the gigs I do. I will be adding a couple of more of the 12's for monitor/main use when needed.

Had the prices been lower for the JBL products I would have probably tried those but at the time,almost 2yrs now the EV stuff fit my pocket book and needs, still fitting my needs very well. Have covers for all of them so the scuffing has been minimal.

No failures to report,used 4 to 8 nights a month,light and easy.

[ChiroVette]

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OneEng wrote:

I think that those of us that purchased PRX600 series speakers (I am one of them) are very happy we got on the bandwagon before the speakers were "down-sized"

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Hey am I missing something? I am buying these speakers very soon. Did I miss something and will be buying lower end versions of this cabinet?

[jonthomas]

PRX 600's use the lighter neo drivers. The new "downsized" PRX 400  use heavier ferrite magnets.

The popular PRX 600 series is still available but the SRX line is discontinued and replaced with the STX.

Volatility in the neo market (used in electric motors and windmill generators) has cut into the margins for loudspeaker companies. 

[ChiroVette]

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jonthomas wrote:

PRX 600's use the lighter neo drivers. The new "downsized" PRX 400  use heavier ferrite magnets.

The popular PRX 600 series is still available but the SRX line is discontinued and replaced with the STX.

Volatility in the neo market (used in electric motors and windmill generators) has cut into the margins for loudspeaker companies. 

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But this hasn't yet effected the PRX 600 line, right?

I mean, buying in now would not mean an inferior speaker, correct?

[RoadRanger]

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ChiroVette wrote:

But this hasn't yet effected the PRX 600 line, right?

I mean, buying in now would not mean an inferior speaker, correct?

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Not yet. Oh, and there's nothing inferior about ferrite over neo - mostly just a weight issue.

[heath_eld]

PRX 400 series is unpowered - it is a replacement for the old MRX 500 series.

[twostone]

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Hey am I missing something? I am buying these speakers very soon. Did I miss something and will be buying lower end versions of this cabinet?

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Well you might snag the 600s before  JBL has to replace that line so you don't miss out having lighter weight cabs. Since China is hording the neomags and there's very limit supply neomags now a days.

[ChiroVette]

Hey, here is a question I just had: I am just impatiently getting some financial stuff together for the purchase of the new PA. Now I am using IEM's, but I often take the buds out of my ears and listen to the stage volume, So I was going to buy an extra PRX612m to use as a monitor, but I recently came across a few companies who sell the ELX 112p for $399.00, open box. To me, this sounds like an amazing deal as I have heard nothing but great things about this cabinet. I don't like the shape of the 612m for use as a wedge and would have to cram a 2 X 4 under one to get the right angle, but the price of this box sounds pretty amazing to me. I may even be able to get brand new for that price from one dealer I am waiting to hear back from.

Thoughts?

[chrispeters]

hi chirovette dont understand why you would need a monitor wedge WITH iems ? wearing iem is so you dont need to carry wedges into a venue ? seems a bit overkill to me lol...surely you would need one or the other ?

[ChiroVette]

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chrispeters wrote:
hi chirovette dont understand why you would need a monitor wedge WITH iems ? wearing iem is so you dont need to carry wedges into a venue ? seems a bit overkill to me lol...surely you would need one or the other ?

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Mixing sound from stage, I find it makes it easier to take the IEM's out very often and listen to the stage volume. I find it easier to make changes to the mix, on the fly, when I don't have the IEM. Plus, sometimes I feel disconnected from the audience and the band, so I find that even with the IEM's and without a wedge monitor, I am spending about half the night with them on and half off. The problem is when I take the IEM out, I have no monitor and I am one of the lead singers in the band and also sing harmony. Not only that, but this gives me an extra monitor for subs who sometimes come play with us.

Anyway lol my question wasn't meant to start an IEM + wedge debate. I am asking about the quality of the ELX at that price point. How much superior it the PRX612m and in what ways? I am definitely another buying a wedge monitor whether I use it or not, so I just figured I would use this thread to see whether the ELX112p would be a good choice or even with the price difference if I would be better off with the PRX.

[heath_eld]

You wont be disappointed with the ELX. Although the "easily knocked about" tendency of the ELX may be more of a problem in a monitor. 

I worked with a guy filling in on keys with one of my bands, and he brought a PRX wedge. It was very apparent, what is often said, about the angle being not well suited to monitor duty. Nonetheless it was also a good speaker, and there is definitely something to be said for using a uniform rig (especially if you ever want to sell it). 

[ChiroVette]

Yeah I haear you, Health. The thing is that I may be able to snag the ELX 112p for around $400.00 + shipping, which is more than a third less than my price on the PRX612m's as mains. Yes, I would love to have the extra 612m as you said, in case a top goes down and I need the monitor to do double duty as the front. But the angle of the 612m is a little prohibitive for its use as a monitor. That isn't a deal breaker, though, as I can easily snag a 2 X 4 to prop it up to a better monitor angle with.

I think that if the ELX112p is as good or maybe just a very slight touch inferior to the 612m, the $400.00 price is REALLY attractive to me. That's why I was hoping more people would chime in about the comparison between the two cabs, in terms of sound quality. I will look through this thread and see if maybe I just missed that since the posts I read here so far seem to be talking about loogistics. But I would love for maybe agedhorse to chime here too. Because he knows both cabinets. I think most people here seem to know either or, not both.