Live Sound & Production

[Bobby1Note]

I came across a Crown I-Tech 8000 at my dealers' store yesterday. The amp looks to be in great shape, and they'll guarantee it for 90-days. It may also be covered by a Crown warranty,,, but I'm not sure about that.

Last year, I was looking for one of these amps, in order to allow me to buy a pair of Yorkville TX9s subs. I couldn't find one locally, for under $3300. plus 15% tax, so I passed.

My dealer is asking $2500 for this one.

I'm a complete noob to powering passive speakers, so I'd need to know; what's so great about these amps? Is it the processing? Is it low-consumption, high-output?

What should I offer for this amp? I see a few "used" I-T8000's on-line, and most folks seem to be asking around $2500. I also get the impression that they're still very much in demand. If he hasn't sold it yet, I was thinking of offering $2k, then hanging on to it until I get the TX9s subs (or VTC NS9). That would most likely happen next year, but, it could happen sooner.

Thanks

[agedhorse]

A factory warranty is really important, out of warranty repair is not something you want to experience.

[Mike M]

I use Crown Itech 6000's on my Yorkville TX9S subs.  If I remember correctly the TX9S cab is 1800 watts @ 4 ohms thus an Itech 4000 would be ideal using one cab per side.

Itech 4000's are alot less expensive than Itech 8000's...

Mike M 

[Bobby1Note]

---

agedhorse wrote:

A factory warranty is really important, out of warranty repair is not something you want to experience.

---

I can just imagine........

Andy, I found a few listings for "new" I-Tech 8000's at something like $7,329. What's the main difference between these mega-dollar amps, and the inexpensive and ultra-light-weight class-D amps I'm seeing all over the place? Is the processing "that much more sophisticated"? Is it longevity, and the ability to drive more difficult loads?

I still see a lot of people looking for these amps, and willing to pay roughly $1800- $2000.

[Bobby1Note]

---

Mike M wrote:

I use Crown Itech 6000's on my Yorkville TX9S subs.  If I remember correctly the TX9S cab is 1800 watts @ 4 ohms thus an Itech 4000 would be ideal using one cab per side.

Itech 4000's are alot less expensive than Itech 8000's...

Mike M 

---

At this point, I'm not certain that I'd go with the TX9s, or the VTC NS9. They both appear to be the same sub, and I'm assuming the VTC version is somewhat upgraded. The 4-Ohm NS9 is rated 1200w nominal, and 2400w continuous. I was considering buying up to four of those. (maybe)

http://www.vtcproaudio.com/ns9.html

[RoadRanger]

---

Bobby1Note wrote:

What's the main difference between these mega-dollar amps, and the inexpensive and ultra-light-weight class-D amps I'm seeing all over the place? Is the processing "that much more sophisticated"? Is it longevity, and the ability to drive more difficult loads?

I still see a lot of people looking for these amps, and willing to pay roughly $1800- $2000.

---

They have top-of-the-line processing, can deliver their full power into 4 ohm loads but are also 2 ohm capable, you can adjust and "look" at what they are doing from FOH via networking, they will run on 220V. Also them cheap amps only go up to 3000 watts so far unbridged, only 840w into 4 ohms for the IPR3000.

[Vinny D]

---

Bobby1Note wrote:

I'm a complete noob to powering passive speakers, so I'd need to know; what's so great about these amps? Is it the processing? Is it low-consumption, high-output?

---

The answer is YES..to everything you mentioned.

I ran (2) IT8000 for two years, great amps and if I used my larger system more often I would not have sold them off.

I don't know what the currency difference is, but here in the USA the magic number for a quick sell price on a used IT8k is $1800

Thats what I paid for mine, and its also what I sold them for after using them for two years.

I would highly advise buying one with a factory warranty, if you can find factory refurbished they usually have a 1-year warranty on them.

The processing is great in them, the limiters are one of the best out their.

[Bobby1Note]

Thanks Vinny, much appreciated.

That $1800 figure seems pretty consistent, and if I decide to go ahead with this, that's what I'll offer. Hell, I saw a guy on eBay, selling a BIG batch of these, starting at $1900 for a single unit, to $1700.ea for something like 3 or more, then $1500.ea for 10 or more. I'll show that to me dealer and see what he says. That said, the 30amp circuit requirement may be an issue for me.

[Vinny D]

They run on a 20a circuit.

The power cable is 20a 120v (Nema 520P)

I used to run both of mine off of a single 20a circuit with no issues.

One amp powering the TX9s the other powering the QW3s.

[agedhorse]

---

Bobby1Note wrote:

---

Mike M wrote:

I use Crown Itech 6000's on my Yorkville TX9S subs.  If I remember correctly the TX9S cab is 1800 watts @ 4 ohms thus an Itech 4000 would be ideal using one cab per side.

Itech 4000's are alot less expensive than Itech 8000's...

Mike M 

---

At this point, I'm not certain that I'd go with the TX9s, or the VTC NS9. They both appear to be the same sub, and I'm assuming the VTC version is somewhat upgraded. The 4-Ohm NS9 is rated 1200w nominal, and 2400w continuous. I was considering buying up to four of those. (maybe)

http://www.vtcproaudio.com/ns9.html

---

Be sure you understand the ratings grasshopper, all is not correct in Yorkville rating terminology land. Look closely and you will see the published error that you base your desire of an I-Tech 8000 on.

[Bobby1Note]

---

agedhorse wrote:

---

Bobby1Note wrote:

---

Mike M wrote:

I use Crown Itech 6000's on my Yorkville TX9S subs.  If I remember correctly the TX9S cab is 1800 watts @ 4 ohms thus an Itech 4000 would be ideal using one cab per side.

Itech 4000's are alot less expensive than Itech 8000's...

Mike M 

---

At this point, I'm not certain that I'd go with the TX9s, or the VTC NS9. They both appear to be the same sub, and I'm assuming the VTC version is somewhat upgraded. The 4-Ohm NS9 is rated 1200w nominal, and 2400w continuous. I was considering buying up to four of those. (maybe)

http://www.vtcproaudio.com/ns9.html

---

Be sure you understand the ratings grasshopper, all is not correct in Yorkville rating terminology land. Look closely and you will see the published error that you base your desire of an I-Tech 8000 on.

---

I will do Master,,,,,

I really know squat about powering passive systems properly. Being able to admit that, is an indication of the potential for a good start.

All of this, ties in with the potential rental business I'm considering. If I decide not to go there, the amp will be moot, as will the large subs. I've been talking to my young sound-provider friend, to see if there is a potential for an association. I'll have a clearer idea later this week.

[agedhorse]

1200 watt continuous (RMS), 2400 watt program... best powered around 1600 watts at 4 ohms.

[Vinny D]

---

agedhorse wrote:

1200 watt continuous (RMS), 2400 watt program... best powered around 1600 watts at 4 ohms.

---

The nice thing with the Itechs is the limiters, you can get any size and limit it down to what you need.

I used to run my TX9's with a RMS limit of 750w @ 4ohms, plenty of output and never any fear of destroying them.

But...In saying that, it's also one of the reasons why I sold the Itechs off and switched to Crest Pro 8200's. They were cheaper, brand new with a 5-year warranty, and they power the cab perfect without the need for guessing what the limiters should be set at.

[Bobby1Note]

Now, I'm not sure if this is going to happen,,,, I'm just kicking tires at this stage. Here's the speakers I'm looking at,,,,,; the VTC N4 mains, and the VTX NS9 subs. I'd be looking at four of each.

VTC Inception N4;

http://www.vtcproaudio.com/n4.html

Here's the processor settings for the N4's;

http://www.vtcproaudio.com/downloads/dlms/n4.pdf

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Here's the VTC Inception NS9 subwoofers;

http://www.vtcproaudio.com/ns9.html

I'd have to contact Yorkville/VTC for the processor settings;

[agedhorse]

Wow, looking at the DSP recommendations, I have to wonder where the folks who developed them were coming from.

The first thing I see is a BW filter alignment between lows and highs, and notice the large underlap. This is almost certainly due to an (IMO) poor choice of filter topology as a correction to the non-power summing filter type. This is the precise reason for the industry migrating to an LR filter alignment.

Then look at the high pass filter alignment... again for this application a BW filter alignment is almost always a better choice due to the corner Q and slope transition from the corner. I wonder if a newbie developed these and misread the original recommendation from a senior engineer and transposed the filter types...

Then, look at the fairly serious eq boosts at eq 3 & 4, while one is quite high Q, I wonder what's going on within the box that's responsible for this need. I would first wonder if perhaps this was an attempt to corret for a time domain problem with eq.

This is just a casual observation based on years of engineering experience.

[RoadRanger]

Wow, didn't read the setting until now - they do look wack  .

[Bobby1Note]

That processor chart is for bi-amp operation I believe; would that have anything to do with the filter and alignment choices?

BTW, I have yet to see a review of these boxes. I wouldn't buy until I do see an in-depth review, from a well qualified individual. The other VTC Inception box (active SP4 I believe), w as VERY favourably reviewed at SFN or ProSoundWeb. I believe that review was a shoot-out, conducted by Caleb Dick. The SP4's emerged right behind the RCF TT's as I recall.