02-04-2013 05:28 PM
02-04-2013 05:31 PM
02-04-2013 06:09 PM
02-04-2013 06:23 PM - edited 02-04-2013 06:24 PM
Btw ... Are you using a comp/limiter on your kick? That will allow you to raise the average level without tripping the amp's clip limiter
What real difference does it make to use an external limiter vs the one built into the amp? Rumor is that the one in those Peavey amps is particularly good .
02-04-2013 06:27 PM
The LS801P mentioned is great if you don't mind the weight . The PRX618S-XLF is lighter, goes lower and probably has better "client appeal" and resale value. The LS801P may have a bit more absolute output.
That's putting it,,,,,,, mildly.
You want a kick-drum that'll punch you in the gut? Go listen to one sometime, and you'll be laughing like a lil' school-girl ..
BTW, add a lil' touch of 4KHz EQ for that "snap" of the beater.
02-04-2013 07:04 PM - edited 02-04-2013 07:08 PM
Speaking in generalities a front load design will give the most punch and be the most musical, but at the expense of overall output. Again, that's just speaking generally.
Do not put money in your current subs. They are what they are and the cabinets are just constructed well enough for a more robust driver and more power, IMO. Even if you did happen to "get it right" with regard to a replacement driver and revised port combination, the box probably couldn't take it.
Do not buy your friend's EV subs loaded with an "it's a brand and model driver I've heard of so it must be good" speaker. On it's own it means nothing that it has an aftermarket driver in it. If it's wrong for the box, and it most likely is, then it's worse than what was in it originally despite what he thinks. If you've both done your homework and know it's a perfect match and an upgrade then I apologize.
The cheapest option - Buy another set of what you have and use the amp you currently have. That would be 350W to each sub. Yes, I know you don't think that's enough, but you probably also don't understand how much wattage it takes to make a difference in volume or the effects of power compression. You won't like this advice but hey it's free so take it for what it's worth I guess.
What I would do - Sell that behemoth amp and your passive subs and buy a pair of powered subs. This would give you the budget for a pair of JBL PRX618XLF's. Another option is the Yorkville 801P. Yet another is the QSC KW181
Keep the amp and look at Yorkville LS808, or if you really want to get low and loud on a budget the Yorkville LS1208 can't be beat, IMO. It's not they punchiest thing going, however. I have experience with both and they kick the snot out of the Yammie Clubs.
LOL. As usual, I find myself completely agreeing with Abzurd's advice.
I have played with and/or listened to the PRX618S-XLF, KW181, and LS801p. All of these are fantastic subs. I own the PRX618S-XLF's which I got a pair for $2200.00 shipped.
The best sounding is the PRX (to my ear), the loudest is the LS801P (noticeably so). The KW181's are of similar output to the PRX's. The PRX's are the lightest while the KW's are the smallest.
The LS801P is REALLY heavy.
I can play a club of ~300 people and have rock level kick throughout the room with a pair of PRX's. I think the PRX's are the punchiest of the bunch.
I used to own a pair of Cerwin Vega LR36's which I powered with a Crown K2 amp. These were folded horns. They were loud, but boomy to my ear. For outside gigs, they would work better than my current PRX618S-XLF's, but for the vast majority of work I do, the XLF's are more than enough.
What are you using for tops?
02-04-2013 07:05 PM
02-04-2013 07:13 PM
Actually the LS801P is lighter than my Acoustic B810 bass cab - but I don't cart that around .
Wow! Ya know, since you have a pair of LS801P's, you could just use a good DI
I had .... (emphasis on had) a bass player with an old Ampeg cab that had a range of different size speakers in it. It was big enough to burry a man in and weight a ton. He also had a bad back and couldn't carry his own gear!
02-04-2013 07:25 PM
02-04-2013 07:59 PM - edited 02-04-2013 08:00 PM
02-04-2013 08:52 PM
02-04-2013 10:49 PM
We have SW118 subs too. But note that they apparently are 4 ohms subs and if you're bridging them, you're running a 2 ohm system on an amp designed for a minimum 4 ohm bridge. Looks like the amp would be happiest with one sub per side. Might even be louder, though I doubt they might make you happy. (Unless the band just turns down.) For loud subs, you can spend as much money as the rest of the PA combined. (Mixer, amps and speakers. Got a spare $3000+ just for loud subs?) That said, ours are running close to max from the kick alone. And while I know that subs do cover some of the bass guitar frequencies, the important stuff is higher up. (I play bass but don't like just shaking the room. Not my style.) If you really want to see how much is higher, turn off the amps to the speakers except the subs. Subs alone don't sound very good for bass guitar. I've done some down-sizing and purchased a couple of the EV ZX-1A subs. Love the tight kick that comes out of those small cabinets. (Under 50 lbs each with the 700 watt amp built in.) I think they sound better than the SW118s. Probably not louder and all of that is very subjective.
That caught my eye,,,, they used to be spec'd at 200w continuous / 800w peak,,,,, now the specs say 700w continuous/program/peak. Hmmmm.
02-05-2013 04:59 AM
I'm almost certain they are 8 ohm cabs. Wynn must be thinking of the double 18's, but Yamaha IV and V version 118 cabs are all 8 ohms as far as I know.
02-06-2013 01:56 AM
Alien Radio wrote:
Was just wondering on opinions on what style/type of sub do you think gives the best punch, front loaded vs folded horn, vs manifold or......... Play mostly medium sized venues, the subs that I have now are are falling short of what I'd like to have.
Firstly, define punch. As a rule, front loaded speakers will give you deeper bass but are less efficient, Horn loaded speakers will give you more volume per watt but are limited by the size of the box as to how low of a freq they will reproduce before "unloading" (and allowing the speaker to beat it's self to death).
I'm no speaker designer and there are some fellows here who can give you much better specifics but I believe (and I'll for sure be corrected if I'm wrong ;-) that the longer the horn path is, the deeper the bass it will reproduce.
Years ago a friend made some folded horn speakers that were relativly flat down to 30hz BUT they were roughly 5' H X 9' W X 8' D. They came with their own semi trailer to haul them around. Just a few hundred watts could rattle your teeth. That didn't matter because they were impractical.
With modern power amps becoming more powerful and efficient (current draw from the wall), the trend is toward front loaded boxes (speaker efficiency is less important - not unimportant - just less so). Any time you have a horn involved to increase efficiency, due to internal reflections inside the horn you get a less acurate reproduction of the original wave form. Front loaded speakers are smaller and easier to move around as well. Also speaker technology has made for higher power handling (higher flux magnets, better VC's and better heat dissipation) and somewhat better efficiency per driver.
That's my .02
02-06-2013 05:05 AM - edited 02-06-2013 05:29 AM
JRBLE is right, front loaded are much less efficient. And also correct about size of folded horn designs. Although we currently have 8 LAB subs (folded horn) and they go down to 30Hz but aren't quite as large as his example. They are 45" tall and deep, and 22.5" wide with two 12" drivers. We have no problem getting more than enough punch out of them. We had used many different front-loaded designs prior to that, including EAW SB series, and were much happier after building the LAB's. Keep in mind though that they are better when used grouped together than a single sub by itself so this may not be the best option for the OP. We mostly use them for outdoor events, as we have a small powered rig for more intimate indoor stuff.
If it were me I would be looking for a more robust powered cabinet to take the place of what they already have, just as others have noted.
02-06-2013 05:15 AM - edited 02-06-2013 05:16 AM
That's why I included the Yorkville LS1208 for consideration for an upgrade path. If you're looking for low and loud, replace your Yammies with those and you'll notice a difference for sure. At 33 x 28 x 43.5 the problem is room to haul them... and they are 181 lbs.
Folded horns can lack definition versus a front load though so, IMO, they are the"least punchy". That said, don't confuse low end punch with getting the eq right and getting bass attack and kick drum beater snap. That all happens well up the frequency chart.
HarmonyCentral.com is the leading Internet resource for musicians, supplying valuable information from news and product reviews, to classified ads and chat rooms.