Live Sound & Production

[Alien Radio]

Was just wondering on opinions on what style/type of sub do you think gives the best punch, front loaded vs folded horn, vs manifold or......... Play mostly medium sized venues, the subs that I have now are are falling short of what I'd like to have.

[RoadRanger]

There are tradeoffs with all designs - what do you have now and what style of music do you pump through them? How mush do you have to spend? Size and weight limits?

[jonthomas]

What roadranger said.

[agedhorse]

Enough of any sub to do the job appropriately.

[Alien Radio]

Have a pair of Yamaha Sw118's, play in a rock band use an Audix D6 kick drum mic, running just the frequency range of 40hz to 100hz, with only the kick and my bass going through them, pushing around 1,200 watts into them, (pv 2000 bridged but only turned up 60% of the way. No size or weight limits, have a budget of around $2,000 for upgrades. Was debating loading them with omega pro's, but I also gave a friend selling a pair of EV T18's loaded with omega pro's, was wondering if that was a better direction to go in.

[RoadRanger]

^ 

[Bobby1Note]

Get yourself one of these, and you'll never have to ask this question again;

http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=29&cat=2&id=382

http://www.yorkville.com/products_photos.asp?id=382

[Alien Radio]

But mostly looking for any suggestions, but am curious would I benifit getting away from front loaded and getting into a different design.

[Alien Radio]

Thank Bobby1note, I will def check into that!

[RoadRanger]

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Alien Radio wrote:
Have a pair of Yamaha Sw118's, play in a rock band use an Audix D6 kick drum mic, running just the frequency range of 40hz to 100hz, with only the kick and my bass going through them, pushing around 1,200 watts into them, (pv 2000 bridged but only turned up 60% of the way.

Them knobs only control sensitivity, not power - you're still putting up to 1000w into each of them poor little 300w subs. Unbridge the amp, put one on each side, turn them knobs all the way up, and turn the system up until the DDT lights start flashing, then 6db past that. If it's not loud enough now you need more subs, maybe another pair of the SW118's used if you can get them cheap.

[dboomer]

The design style is probably less important than the execution. You've got cheap subs and are pushing them too hard. I would avoid boxes that have been reloaded with alternate woofers. Unless the box has been correctly retuned you might be going backwards.

What high pass filter are you using with your current setup? You can probably help clean them up by raising it a bit. You don't need 40 Hz for a kick drum. Most of the punch will be at 70 Hz.

[RoadRanger]

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dboomer wrote:

What high pass filter are you using with your current setup? You can probably help clean them up by raising it a bit. You don't need 40 Hz for a kick drum. Most of the punch will be at 70 Hz.

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That Peavey PV2000 has a 40Hz HPF and some sort of crossover in it  .

[Alien Radio]

The amp is set to cut under 40hz, plus I gave an eq on the kick insert and I have it pulled down totally down for 40 and under . I will def try what you mentioned. If I were to invest in higher wattage subs, Bobby noted the Yorkvilles, any other suggestion for subs? Or maybe thoughts on if I got a qsc gx7 which seems like a good match for the yamaha subs.

[Mogwix]

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Alien Radio wrote:
But mostly looking for any suggestions, but am curious would I benifit getting away from front loaded and getting into a different design.

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The type of design isn't as important as it's quality. It's silly to generalize front-loaded subwoofers based on your experience with the entry-level SW118.

[agedhorse]

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Alien Radio wrote:
The amp is set to cut under 40hz, plus I gave an eq on the kick insert and I have it pulled down totally down for 40 and under . I will def try what you mentioned. If I were to invest in higher wattage subs, Bobby noted the Yorkvilles, any other suggestion for subs? Or maybe thoughts on if I got a qsc gx7 which seems like a good match for the yamaha subs.

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Don't use 2 filters, the eq filters are very shallow by comparison so do not use the eq to cut 40Hz.

Your subs can not safely handle any more power than your amp can deliver in stereo mode. You are lucky your subs still work, though I would suspect that the drivers may be damaged already. I see plenty of these come through the shop for reconing.

[Alien Radio]

Gotcha, I did the eq mostly so I could try to adjust different frequencies to try to see if I could dial in the kick at all, it seemed to have help. You may be right on having some damage, hope not. So I will try all suggestions, but with theses being "entry level" I am wondering if I should just get something better, taking all suggestions on different subs.

[abzurd]

Speaking in generalities a front load design will give the most punch and be the most musical, but at the expense of overall output. Again, that's just speaking generally.

Do not put money in your current subs. They are what they are and the cabinets are just constructed well enough for a more robust driver and more power, IMO. Even if you did happen to "get it right" with regard to a replacement driver and revised port combination, the box probably couldn't take it.

Do not buy your friend's EV subs loaded with an "it's a brand and model driver I've heard of so it must be good" speaker. On it's own it means nothing that it has an aftermarket driver in it. If it's wrong for the box, and it most likely is, then it's worse than what was in it originally despite what he thinks. If you've both done your homework and know it's a perfect match and an upgrade then I apologize.

The cheapest option - Buy another set of what you have and use the amp you currently have. That would be 350W to each sub. Yes, I know you don't think that's enough, but you probably also don't understand how much wattage it takes to make a difference in volume or the effects of power compression. You won't like this advice but hey it's free so take it for what it's worth I guess.

What I would do - Sell that behemoth amp and your passive subs and buy a pair of powered subs. This would give you the budget for a pair of JBL PRX618XLF's. Another option is the Yorkville 801P. Yet another is the QSC KW181

OR

Keep the amp and look at Yorkville LS808, or if you really want to get low and loud on a budget the Yorkville LS1208 can't be beat, IMO. It's not they punchiest thing going, however. I have experience with both and they kick the snot out of the Yammie Clubs.

[Alien Radio]

But now I am curious, I know I'm from the train of thought of running what speakers are rated at for program. So what is a good ratio?

[Alien Radio]

Sorry Abzurd asked the last question before I saw your post.