Live Sound & Production

[Al Poulin]

Hey guys, after months of waiting, I finally picked up my PGM8 today! Although I haven't played with it yet, I really love the look, size and solid feel of this mixer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhTqF...ature=youtu.be

Al

[twostone]

I like the layout with a monitor fader and FX fader instead of dinky knob like on most tiny compact mixers.
Cool review thanks for sharing

[Shaster]

Thanks for the video and pricing info Al. I've been waiting for the PGM8 for a while now. I sold off my two mini and mid sized mixers and only have my MixWiz and PM16 which are too big for small/solo gigs. I do have my little M8 but it's only good for solo stuff and I have to use passive speakers.

I almost bought a Soundcraft EFX but there were a few missing features I didn't want to live without. In fact this mixer actually looks like it's aimed at the Soundcraft offerings.

Okay, well that's my life story in a nutshell.

[Al Poulin]

Forgot to mention in my video that channels 1-4 have a built-in soft knee compressor that is more or less active depending on your channel gain setting.

Al

[snakewithlegs]

Al,
How do you like it so far? How does it compare to the PV?

[nchangin]

How do you like the compression? This could be my replacement for my Mackie\dbx solution. Assuming this is light years above the PV right? How are the effects - natural sounding?

[SoundMan]

Let me outline the differences:
It costs $100 more than the PV.
It has 2 less channels than the PV.
The PV doesn't need a fan to run cool all day.
It has a mono master fader that gives you more crosstalk than the PV.
The THD is listed as 0.05%, the PV's is about 0.005%.
It doesn't have insert jacks.
It does have a 7 band EQ, the PV doesn't.
I couldn't find a pic of the back, but it may or may not have electronically balanced XLR outputs, like the PV.
It has a 2 year warranty, the PV has 5 year warranty.
It has a monitor and master fader, the PV has rotary's.
It has compressors, the PV doesn't.
Can't comment on the EFX, I haven't actually heard one.

And, my comments are biased, I designed the PV. But, I tried to be fair. The point is, they each have their strengths. Which one you pick or like, depends on which of these features is important to you.

[Al Poulin]

Originally Posted by SoundMan

Let me outline the differences:
It costs $100 more than the PV.
It has 2 less channels than the PV.
The PV doesn't need a fan to run cool all day.
It has a mono master fader that gives you more crosstalk than the PV.
The THD is listed as 0.05%, the PV's is about 0.005%.
It doesn't have insert jacks.
It does have a 7 band EQ, the PV doesn't.
I couldn't find a pic of the back, but it may or may not have electronically balanced XLR outputs, like the PV.
It has a 2 year warranty, the PV has 5 year warranty.
It has a monitor and master fader, the PV has rotary's.
It has compressors, the PV doesn't.
Can't comment on the EFX, I haven't actually heard one.

And, my comments are biased, I designed the PV. But, I tried to be fair. The point is, they each have their strengths. Which one you pick or like, depends on which of these features is important to you.

Hey Jim, how you been?

Now that I've used the PGM8 on a few gigs, I am more able to comment on it vs. the PV10. Instead of giving the positives, which I've already mostly covered in the video, I can give you the negatives of each mixer (from my experience) to start :

PGM8 cons :

Expensive for an 8 channel mixer made in China.
- Phantom power switch on the back is dangerously close to the power switch - and both switches are identical.
- 7 band EQ is practical BUT I would have liked an in/out option to completely take it out of the signal path if possible as the frequency sliders are a little flimsy and it is sometimes hard to tell if you have them exactly in the 0 position
- Mixer is completely flat on the table while I much prefer the top of the mixer to be slightly elavated (gradually) for a better view of the entire mixer when sitting
- Effects are OK (nothing special) BUT you need to set the levels EXTREMELY high on all 2 knobs + slider : channel FX knob, FX send knob and FX return to main slider to actually hear them working (maybe this is something I'm doing wrong?)

Peavey PV 10 cons :

- The mid boost/cut knob on the channel EQ is set way too low to actually be called a mid, so is really not helpful bringing out vocals at all
- I have had issues with two channels as well as the master outs which never produce the same output even though they are set at the same level (according to the LEDs anyway)


I will be back shortly to tell you what I like about each mixer...

[SoundMan]

I'm good, mostly lurking these days. But since the PV was brought up, I had to jump on in.

I thought you liked the mid control, it's kind of a low mid, more of a cut function than a booster. Instead of boosting the feedback prone areas, it cuts the mud, so to speak. Most mid-eq's are at a horrible frequency anyway, 2k, that's the most obnoxious to the human ear, that's baby crying frequency.

Seems like we discussed that level thing before, can't remember what we came up with. Did we ever decide if you had the old faders, or the newer (better) ones? That could explain it. I think I offered to fix it for free, but you were under warranty...my memory is fading.

[Al Poulin]

What I like about the PGM8 and the PV10 :

PGM8 pros :

- Very solid build quality, especially compared to the way too much plastic feel of the newer Yamaha MG I traded in for it (my older MG12/ is still my favorite mixer overall)
- Nice looking IMO and very good layout with lots of features (break switch that mutes all channels, sliders for monitor out and effects, record out + media in)
- 7 band EQ that offers different frequencies than the 3 band channel EQ
- compressors on mic channels

PV10 pros :

- RCA+1/4'' inputs on the stereo channels which are great for plugging in consumer grade devices using standard RCA connectors
- Contour switch which adds just enough top end sparkle and low end boost to make most PA speakers sound more ear friendly
- 5 year warranty which I've been fortunate to have :-)
- Really compact size and low weight for a 10 channel board
- Great sounding effects that are easier to use IMO vs. the PGM8
- Being lucky enough to know the very talented designer :-)


I have to admit, I really like my PV10 although I feel I might have purchased the rare lemon (just my luck). I've owned my PV10 for over 5 years now and actually used it exclusively for the recording of both my CDs. I would buy one again without hesitation. Great job Jim!

Al

[Al Poulin]

Originally Posted by SoundMan

I'm good, mostly lurking these days. But since the PV was brought up, I had to jump on in.

I thought you liked the mid control, it's kind of a low mid, more of a cut function than a booster. Instead of boosting the feedback prone areas, it cuts the mud, so to speak. Most mid-eq's are at a horrible frequency anyway, 2k, that's the most obnoxious to the human ear, that's baby crying frequency.

Seems like we discussed that level thing before, can't remember what we came up with. Did we ever decide if you had the old faders, or the newer (better) ones? That could explain it. I think I offered to fix it for free, but you were under warranty...my memory is fading.

The channels are mostly working fine since they were fixed, BUT now seem to have an uneven increase in output once you get to a certain level. (all of a sudden the level increases dramatically once you get past a certain point) Some knobs are also producing noise when you adjust them. The masters are still uneven, even after being repaired, but once I find where to set them to produce even output, they are OK. The mixer is still very usable though and comes with me to most of my bookings. I still really enjoy using it and have always liked the universal power plug (instead of the huge wall wart things the Yamahas use). I also have always liked the contour feature, which I mentionned to you in the past. The mid knob however, I have always had a beef with. I questionned you about it a few years ago since it really didn't sound like a mid boost/cut to me but more of a mid bass boost/cut which you later confirmed.

Oh yeah, the PGM8 does have XLR outs on the back and I don't think it uses a fan. If it does, it is inaudible to me...

Thanks for your help in the past, you did indeed offert to fix my PV10 for free, which I probably should have taken you up on :-)

Al

[SoundMan]

I got the fan info from their website, I just can't see why you would need one at that power level. Not sure about that unevenness, there are breakpoints in the taper, if you're sitting on one of them you can get what you are describing.

[SoundMan]

You've always got warranty, as long as you keep sucking up to me, nice job.

[Al Poulin]

Originally Posted by SoundMan

You've always got warranty, as long as you keep sucking up to me, nice job.

I would suck up quite a bit more if you designed powered speakers :-)


Quick question about something I've always been curious about : what happened to the SP5.5P? It seemed promising :

http://www.loyola.com/av/products/au...avey-sp5p.html


The Impulse 12D is interesting and sounds good, but I've read of many QC issues. Thoughts?

Al

[SoundMan]

I don't know if those ever shipped or not, probably too heavy and expensive for today's market.

I think most of the Impulse QC issues have been ironed out, they had some problems at first, but that was a pretty good while ago.

[OneEng]

Al,

Nice find.

I recently bought an A&H ZED 10fx which I really like, but it would have been a good comparison to make to this new Yorkie mixer.

PGM8 pros:

• 6 mic preamps vs 4 on the ZED
• Sliders vs knobs
• Integrated graphical eq
• Integrated compressor
• Unit mute
• Footswitch for external ctl of efx

ZED Pros:

• 4 channel eq with 1 sweepable mid
• Very good efx
• USB recording
• Smaller form factor

I would have to listen to them both side by side to make a determination today; however, if the efx and channel eq were "good enough" the advantage of having 6 mic inputs and sliders might make many consider it a very good option in this price category.

[Al Poulin]

I haven't used the effects enough yet to make a good comparison. They are supposed to be 24 bit and they seem OK, I just find you need to max out almost all the levels to hear them...

[Craigv]

Al, if you max the levels to hear effects, are you then running into clipping problems anywhere?

[DaBender]

Seeing how we've got the PV series designer in on this thread with possible self-esteem issues, I'll just add -

I bought a brand new PV14 a few years ago, and I just can't imagine getting a better combination of features and quality for $300. I'm surprised they aren't recommended more, it's all my hobby band needs for the situations where we provide the sound.

[Al Poulin]

Originally Posted by Craigv

Al, if you max the levels to hear effects, are you then running into clipping problems anywhere?

I used my mixer again this weekend in my little studio to record some Christmas original songs and the effects are decent, but you do need to set all levels VERY high (more on some effects than others of course). Didn't see or hear any clippping though or see any blinking lights, so at least that's a good thing...

Al