Keys, Synths & Samplers

[juno6]

ooooooh, sweet. When I talked to Tom a while ago, it wasn't in there yet. Now the tricky part, where do we get the 16 DW-8000 waveforms? -Mc

I might have those... I used to have waveforms from most hybrid synths, extracted from ROM, like PPGs, ESQ, SQ80, Prophet VS and I maybe DW...

[jbabb]

Other example is the one I said previously, you load a system, modify various programs, but you only want to save one of them... if you save the system you´ll overwrite the patches that you don´t want to save...

Again, just use a different name.

The original DSS-1 has a total of nine system type files (with fixed names) on each floppy, plus a file for each multisound that is used. There are four program parameter files (A-D), four multisound list files (one for each system A-D, with the list of multisounds used by that system), and a midi parameters file that is global for the 4 systems.
With the upgrade, I can load the entire floppy into memory at once (with a single command). The multisound lists get combined with duplicates eliminated so that I don't load the same multisound twice. The program parameters load such that A= 1 to 32, B= 33 to 64, C= 65 to 96, and D= 97 to 128.
When I write the system file to USB, I am in effect combining these nine files into a single file, but I let you pick a sub-directory and enter a name for the system. The multisound files are still saved as individual files, that can be shared by multiple system files.

I chose this architecture so it would be easy to relate the names on the USB drive to the original floppy disks.
A single USB drive can easily hold the entire DSS-1 library and then some.
This new, combined system file still is not that big, so go ahead and save a bunch of them, and yes they do save in way under 5 seconds.

Use 'System, Save all Programs' to just save the system file, and use 'System, Save System' to save the system file plus all the multisounds used by the system.

I am not really opposed to saving an individual program, but I can't think of a way to do it that would be intuitive within the existing menu structure, or that would not create a new file type.

Once you actually use the new upgrade, and see just how FAST everything is, you will wonder how you ever got by without it!

-Jim

[jbabb]

One of the biggest failures in the design of the DSS-1 IMHO was the fact that when you powered it on, it didn't have a default set of waveforms and a program loaded. The one thing I'd like to see in this upgrade process is to be able to turn it on to a bank of my choice preloaded with the needed waveforms.

My preference would be all 16 DW-8000 waveforms.

You haven't been paying attention.oke:
Just save the system of your choice to the root of the USB drive with a name of "DEFAULT", and it will be loaded (very quickly) on power up.

Most of the DW-8000 waveforms have an equivalent in Korg's DWGS waveforms (that are on many of the factory disks).
But don't stop there, make your favorite performance system with 128 programs and up to 64 Multisounds.

-Jim

[McHale]

You haven't been paying attention.oke:

:cry: I've read the whole thread since the beginning and I somehow missed that. That's really sad because I STARTED this damn thread! From what I remember, the DWGS waveforms that were in the DW-8000 were different from the DSS-1 waveforms. But Juno, if you still have any/all of those waveforms, please PM me. I can't wait to get this upgrade! -Mc

[jbabb]

I can't wait to get this upgrade!

Well, what are you waiting for??? :rolleyes:

-Jim

[McHale]

I assume you mean DW-8000, well yes they are different, since the DW-8000 only has an 8-bit waveform generation engine and the DSS-1 is 12 bit, but they are equivalent, as in the same basic waveform shape or harmonic content.

ooops. You're right. I'll fix it. In some cases, the dirtiness of a lower quality waveform (8 vs 12 or 12 vs 16) really adds a great character to a sound. I can't explain it but in some cases, I really like it.

Well, what are you waiting for??? :rolleyes:

this:

"A complete redesign is in progress, which will make more use of programmable logic, which translates to a smaller board and lower cost."

http://web.me.com/tomvirostek/DSS-1/USB_Module.html

-Mc

[jbabb]

this:

"A complete redesign is in progress, which will make more use of programmable logic, which translates to a smaller board and lower cost."

:facepalm: I knew Tom worded that wrong. It should say: "Hurry up and buy this, since I only got 25 boards made, and some of the parts are getting hard to find, so when these sell out, it will take a long time to redo the board layout with more programmable logic, plus I have to wait for Jim to re-write the software to support the new floppy interface, and he can be slow at times. :rolleyes:"

-Jim

[McHale]

I totally didn't get that out of the sentence I quoted... oke:

[tvirostek]

:facepalm: I knew Tom worded that wrong. It should say: "Hurry up and buy this, since I only got 25 boards made, and some of the parts are getting hard to find, so when these sell out, it will take a long time to redo the board layout with more programmable logic, plus I have to wait for Jim to re-write the software to support the new floppy interface, and he can be slow at times. :rolleyes:"

-Jim

HAHA...actually Jim is right...except for the part about being slow. Most times he has bugs fixed and a new build of software the same day I report them!
I'm not sure of the exact price difference yet. The new design is 4 layers which tends to be more expensive, but the board is just over half the size of the old one. But yes, by the time I build prototypes, get the logic debugged, get the new code running on it, it could be a while. The board layout is 95% complete I'd estimate.
Of the 25 boards, 10 are left. They are actually going a lot faster than I expected. So I suspect I'll be moving on the new prototypes sooner rather than later.

[McHale]

Tom, I'll pick this up via email. I have a couple questions... Thanks. -Mc

[juno6]

What is the benefit of having free-running DCO or PCM oscillators anyway? I figured only VCOs are beneficial in this respect, because the voltage level is always fluctuating. What's the benefit in doing this on a static PCM waveforms? I owned a DW8000 for 20 years and the DSS1 for 6 years, with 3 yrs overlap between the two. I never thought the DW had a more analog feel than the DSS; in fact it feels to me the other way around; the DSS seems capable of a lot fatter, warmer and organic type sounds.

I´ll let you decide whether my suggestion have any benefit or not, and I´d like to hear your opinion on the examples I´m posting here. It was made with an hybrid synth, an Ensoniq ESQm, and the oscillators are digital, but it lets you choose if you want them to always start from the same point (as on the DSS-1), or you want them to be free-running. For some reason I couldn´t put them on my twango page, so I had to upload them on rapidshare. EXAMPLE 1 EXAMPLE 2 first half is free running, second half is static. I´d like to hear other opinions as well. I think it worth to include this function on the DSS...

[jbabb]

I know Tom has shipped several of these upgrades by now. Has anyone on this forum gotten one yet? Any more ideas for improvements to the operating system? -Jim

[McHale]

I'm *GOING* to get one, just haven't yet. So far, sounds awesome. -Mc

[ddjack59]

Hi all; New to forum -- long time owner and user of the DSS-1. Got mine in 1987. Glad I held on to it all these years. With cash being extremely hard to come by right now, this awesome upgrade remains but a dream. Question for jbabb on the filesystem for the original disks. 1. Was the DSS-1 floppy filesystem created by Korg? 2. What were the names for the nine system files? 3. And was there a naming convention for the Multisound files? I know CopyQM could read and write the floppy format, but I'd be curious if you could extract the individual files from a CopyQM image? I've spent a considerable amount of time experimenting with dumping data via SYSEX from the DSS-1, but it is a RPITA because you have to send and receive multiple SYSEX streams (Multisound list, Multisound parameters for each, Program Names, Program parameters for each, then the PCM data.) And it's pretty dang slow.

[McHale]

Hey Jim, I was toying with a friend's Poly and thought of something I'd love to see on at least *ONE* of my synths: CHORD MEMORY It'd be nice to have an Arp as well -Mc

[ddjack59]

Tom, Thanks for your work on this. What is the current availability for the kit? Are they the original or the 'new revision' version you talk about on your site? A few questions on the SCSI option. The option is for the SCSI cabling and the punching/mounting of the DB25 connector, right? What SCSI protocol is supported? (SCSI-1, fast?, fast-wide?) If you connect multiple SCSI drives, is there a menu option to select the active target? Do you just format the SCSI drives as FAT32? Regards, --Doug

[jbabb]

I know CopyQM could read and write the floppy format, but I'd be curious if you could extract the individual files from a CopyQM image?

I like using the Omniflop images instead, since they are a complete raw image of the floppy. Just remember that the sector size is 1024 bytes. You can learn a lot looking at the Omniflop image in a hex editor.

-Jim

[jbabb]

Hey Jim,

I was toying with a friend's Poly and thought of something I'd love to see on at least *ONE* of my synths:

CHORD MEMORY

It'd be nice to have an Arp as well

-Mc

Please explain how CHORD MEMORY works, and how would you control it?

An Arp would probably require a change to CPU-2 code. That probably won't happen.

-Jim

[jbabb]

Tom, Thanks for your work on this. What is the current availability for the kit? Are they the original or the 'new revision' version you talk about on your site? A few questions on the SCSI option. The option is for the SCSI cabling and the punching/mounting of the DB25 connector, right? What SCSI protocol is supported? (SCSI-1, fast?, fast-wide?) If you connect multiple SCSI drives, is there a menu option to select the active target? Do you just format the SCSI drives as FAT32? Regards, --Doug

I'll let Tom address the availability, but I can answer the rest. The 'new revision' is not done yet. The SCSI option includes the SCSI interface IC, the cabling, and the punching/mounting of the DB25 connector. That interface is a carry over from the original DSS-MSRK retrofit that I did for Korg, so it is just SCSI-1 and the file system is an extension of the floppy routines (FAT 32 did not exist at the time). Like the floppy, it is a flat file system (no sub-directories). It supports 99 systems (of 32 programs each). You do get the option to select the target device (0-7). The USB interface is new, and offers FAT 16 or FAT 32 support, plus unlimited named system files (of 128 programs each) and sub-directories. I really don't know why anyone would use SCSI now, unless they had the original upgrade with a lot of data on a SCSI drive that they wanted to access. The USB interface is just as fast (sometimes faster) than the SCSI interface. -Jim

[McHale]

Please explain how CHORD MEMORY works, and how would you control it?

An Arp would probably require a change to CPU-2 code. That probably won't happen.

-Jim

It was pretty simple. You hold a chord (say C - E - G) and press a button to "remember that chord". Now when you press a single key, it will play that chord.

Here's a video that shows it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viFcFyPdo_o&feature=related

check out about 40 seconds into it for a quick description.

-Mc