Keys, Synths & Samplers

[harmonychiq]

I saw the other thread down the page, I thought maybe we could put something more focused in regards to how the Prophet 12 will compare to other premium offerings from other brands.

I realize it is not out yet, but what exactly should we expect from the Prophet 12 vs something like the Virus TI2?

I'm nearing the end of the life-cycle for my main synth and will need a replacement soon. I was going to get the Virus TI2 but then saw the Prophet 12 at NAMM. Some of the past complaints about the Prophet 8 were the limited filters and the limited voicings, at least when compared to the TI2.

Will the additional features added in 12 be able to adequately address those issues?

[Robbins]

It feels strange to compare the TI2 and the P12. It simply depends on what you need.

If you do not need the multitimbrality and voice count of the Virus, then you still can compare them.

Then it comes down to how you like the sound. My opinion is that both synths complement eachother quite well. They sound very different, I'm sure of that. 

I would like to add that I was suprised about Access not representing us with a new Virus line at NAMM.

Though, we do still have Frankfurt Messe. You should probably wait and see.

Edit: Clavia hinted about a New Synth at NAMM show, and it might be revealed at Frankfurt Messe this year. I'm looking forward to that.

[cresshead]

re:Edit: Clavia hinted about a New Synth at NAMM show, and it might be revealed at Frankfurt Messe this year. I'm looking forward to that.

let's say you're Clavia...there's a huge buzz around a competitor's new synth....your company has nothing to compare that's new...so your potential customers are musing on putting down a deposit or pre ordering a prophet 12.....how to make them pause for thought???

oh..... let drop a 'hint' that we'll have a new synth in april.

just sayin!

i've seen this tactic so many times with software/hardware that i just don't bite....show me or shut up is my motto.

[Robbins]

Most people know Clavia. I don't think it's a monster synth like the P12.

If you want a monster synth, buy P12. Only monster synth Clavia could make, is Virtual Modular.

But again, if you don't like complex programing, P12 could be a better option.

I think Clavia wont't have a synth that directly competes with the P12.

More competition makes lower prices. So I think it's good tactics then.

[droolmaster0]

I just love all of these opinions from people who have not used the synths that they are discussing.

[ih8microsoft]

I own a Dave Smith Mopho x4.... Dave Smith makes some pretty amazing synthesizers.  Prophet 12 is the new flagship of the Dave Smith line.  I haven't personally owned it, but if it's anything like his other products, it won't disappoint.

[Robbins]

You can have opinions about synth you never have owned as long as you know something about them.

[droolmaster0]

Sure - one can have opinions about all sorts of things. But I just find it amusing when people talk about instruments as if they have actually used them. "Monster synth". Give me a break. Maybe if you used it, you wouldn't like the way it responded, or maybe you wouldn't like the interface. Maybe you'd drop it on your foot.

I always kind of pity the newbies on sites like this (and this isn't the only one - Gearslutz is just as bad) where you see all of these people talking about synths being "future classics" etc, and you'd think that maybe they actually have some experience with them, and with a wide variety of other instruments. But that is often not the case.

[cresshead]

whilst no one can own this synth yet (it's not released )...i've yet to hear anything from the current batch of demo's that prick my ears up into "i want this" mode....that'snot to say the synth isn't great...the o/s isn't finished so we;re only hearing w.i.p. partches...the spec's read great...4 ocs's plus 1 sub oc on osc1

i hope to hear some great throbbing basslines and seq parts soon and some OBX like lush pads..

[Bernard]

I tend to avoid V's threads as they never lead to useful chat.. but here goes any how...

P12 sounds great in demo's so far and can only get better...

To the OP, if you like the sound of a Virus TI2 buy a Virus TI2....

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cresshead wrote:


i hope to hear some great throbbing basslines and seq parts soon and some OBX like lush pads..

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I have no idea how it will sound on what they have not demo'd but it will be different for sure to other synths as it is different...

It is what it is and I kind of like it so far....

[harmonychiq]

"To the OP, if you like the sound of a Virus TI2 buy a Virus TI2...."

I'm forming a new band and we're planning to incorporate a lot of new electronic style influences ala: skrillex, will.i.am.,  redone, benny blanco etc

the TI2 is so highly regarded for what it can do sonically, in addition to its malleability via the integrated VST. But I feel perhaps it is too highly regarded? SO many people use it, I thought maybe a Prophet 12 would have some sounds that nobody has ever heard of before.

My main concern is the machine's ability to produce those "wtf was that?" type sounds that you can with the TI2. Is there any insight here on that? Obviously P12 is not out, but perhaps someone with intimate knowledge of the P8 (which seems P12 is at least partly based on) could chime in?

I also like not having to deal with menu vs. manually tweaking the knobs.

I'm assuming every single one of those knobs can be mapped via MIDI to knobs in a VST or Daw and recorded?

How do you save sounds that you create on the P12? I assume it goes into a bank, but if you change the knob positioning for some of them, and then reload that sound, how does the different knob positioning vs the preset interact with each other?

What will be the workflow like for revisiting sounds used previously on a DAW?

I guess unless you record in MIDI there is no "revisiting" or changing sounds. You just record as audio right into the ProTools track and have it as an audio file....

[Bernard]

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harmonychiq wrote:

"To the OP, if you like the sound of a Virus TI2 buy a Virus TI2...."

I'm forming a new band and we're planning to incorporate a lot of new electronic style influences ala: skrillex, will.i.am.,  redone, benny blanco etc

the TI2 is so highly regarded for what it can do sonically, in addition to its malleability via the integrated VST. But I feel perhaps it is too highly regarded? SO many people use it, I thought maybe a Prophet 12 would have some sounds that nobody has ever heard of before.

My main concern is the machine's ability to produce those "wtf was that?" type sounds that you can with the TI2. Is there any insight here on that? Obviously P12 is not out, but perhaps someone with intimate knowledge of the P8 (which seems P12 is at least partly based on) could chime in?

I also like not having to deal with menu vs. manually tweaking the knobs.

I'm assuming every single one of those knobs can be mapped via MIDI to knobs in a VST or Daw and recorded?

How do you save sounds that you create on the P12? I assume it goes into a bank, but if you change the knob positioning for some of them, and then reload that sound, how does the different knob positioning vs the preset interact with each other?

What will be the workflow like for revisiting sounds used previously on a DAW?

I guess unless you record in MIDI there is no "revisiting" or changing sounds. You just record as audio right into the ProTools track and have it as an audio file....

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Most modern Synths save patches, that allows recall of any sound (patch settings) you saved.

Midi is control data not sound

Most DAWs can record sound,

Most DAWs can record record midi (in various data depths of midi complexity e.g. with after touch data).

Most DAWs can also control things like VSTi's which could be virtual synths.

Your last post suggests you have lots to learn if you mix these up in any way...

Best tip I can give you regarding sound is to use your ears, if you repeatedly hear a synth making the kind of sounds you love, don't go out and buy a completely different synth because someone tells you it is better, buy the one you like and make sure it sounds right..

To my ear the Virus is OKish (that's just my opinion so ignore it). Good if you need slightly DARKer trancier sounds and quite flexible if you just want to mimic other stuff that a VA is good at mimicking... same old same old really, plus what ever makes the Virus good to Virus owners (build, midi and integration etc)

The P12 is special to my ear in the same way some classic synth were (just my opinion so ignore me). I have already heard some really cool sounds I like. It is not a general run of the mill copy this copy that synth by design (I doubt DSI could give a wotsit about making their synth copy others), so I have no idea if you can squeeze what you want out of it, until people get them and program them we do not know. I suspect it will not do phat moog basses for example but if you want a phat moog bass buy a MOOG!!! LOL


It's that simple, buy a synth for what it sounds like, not what you think you can magically make it sound like...  By the time the P12 is selling there will be enough demo's to give you an idea of it's sound and don't forget any Youtube stuff will be a bit less shrill than any synth will sound in real life....

@ P08 owners, they may be able to tell you what they think of DSI but the P08 and P12 are different enough in sound and design for it to be hard for them to tell you much, me thinks... Use your ears and learn more about midi etc as you may be looking at the wrong features and your needs may vary to others...

[harmonychiq]

"Most modern Synths save patches, that allows recall of any sound (patch settings) you saved."

Okay, I think I understand, so if you dial in the perfect lead for a song, and the DAW session is called "Batman Returns", you basically have to just save that sound as a patch on the Prophet12 as something like "Batman Returns Lead", and then manually load it each time you want to re-record or tweak the sound regardless of whether the midi data was recorded or the actual audio. 

Does that sound like the best workflow?

In regards to the MIDI, i know the difference between MIDI and actual audio (sound), I guess the question is whether I can use the Prophet12 like a standard midi controller either for virtual instruments (such as komplete) or for another hardware rack synth (TI2 Desktop), and whether every knob on the P12 can be assigned/mapped as such.

[cresshead]

reagrds the p12 is a controller...weather they transmit CC data over a midi cable that your soft synth can "learn" we'll have to wait for the manual's to become available to browse but for example you can use the mopho keyboard as a controller as Nick from Sonicstate observed when he reviewed that dave smith synth a while ago.

[Citizen Klaus]

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harmonychiq wrote:

In regards to the MIDI, i know the difference between MIDI and actual audio (sound), I guess the question is whether I can use the Prophet12 like a standard midi controller either for virtual instruments (such as komplete) or for another hardware rack synth (TI2 Desktop), and whether every knob on the P12 can be assigned/mapped as such.

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The Prophet 08, Mopho Keyboard, and Mopho x4 all allow this (and in a rather versatile manner), so it's probably safe to assume that the P12 will.

[Bernard]

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harmonychiq wrote:

"Most modern Synths save patches, that allows recall of any sound (patch settings) you saved."

Okay, I think I understand, so if you dial in the perfect lead for a song, and the DAW session is called "Batman Returns", you basically have to just save that sound as a patch on the Prophet12 as something like "Batman Returns Lead", and then manually load it each time you want to re-record or tweak the sound regardless of whether the midi data was recorded or the actual audio. 

Does that sound like the best workflow?

In regards to the MIDI, i know the difference between MIDI and actual audio (sound), I guess the question is whether I can use the Prophet12 like a standard midi controller either for virtual instruments (such as komplete) or for another hardware rack synth (TI2 Desktop), and whether every knob on the P12 can be assigned/mapped as such.

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You got it basically for patches and seperate DAW.. that is it...

If all DAW and associated add on's like VSTi's could sound as good as if not better than every synth ever made....

If the work flow of the actual DAW was so perfect for you that what ever way you interfaced with it, it was the way you wanted it....

Then and only then would you be able to ask why on earth people are buying real synths.. LOL

There are so many variables in sound and interface there is no perfect solution... Your preferences will vary to other people..

What I have noticed some people do and report, is to shed their real synth and try to go ''In the Box'' and they then end up not liking what they have despite the initial lure of what ''In the Box'' gained for them...


I just mess around with stuff and so for me, a physical synth whether it be a VA or Real Analog is more fun than watching a computer boot and load cool graphics... If you think different follow that thought...

Some people are not tweakers, they are kindoff lazy and want patches saved for them by the synth or DAW maker. They do want to create music but not engineer different sounds.. They will be more inspired by melody and their own music writing and playing skills than a quality of sound of a particular synth or patch...

You really have to discover what you are...

Some folk don't even use a DAW, they just sequence basic stuff or play everything and record to good old recorders or even just always play live...

One of the difficulties I also hear the ''In the Boxers'' go on about is that they cannot find a good controller.. As I could care less about DAW synths and mapping controllers I will never really have to care about some of those issues, but if someone buys into DAW and VSTi's to save on hardware and then discover all the controllers they buy completely suck, it is kindoff self inflected, since the companies making some VSTi's don't always make hardware and they companies still making the best synths don't focus on VSTi's... Although that could all change in a few product lunches... Ironically some of the best controllers (for Midi) where made years back and so are in general decline...

Before worrying about that ask yourself why you want to work with a DAW, are you willing to end up with loads of sucky controllers, do you care... what do you need.. are you inspired by real synths or does the prospects of cables every where and space and money tied up in gear scare you... You can mix both a bit... get a good synth that you like the keybed on and if does sounds you like, add a basic DAW and possibly invest in some good out board effects unless you get a fully featured DAW that can do more and more of that..

You have to decide what is best for you..

Have you played a virus yet? Do you like the keybed and sounds?


Can you hear what is special about the P12 or do your ears just say that just another synth sound... What makes you tick.. what ever it is follow that and try stuff... no one can really tell what to buy or what you need..

[Sad Darwin]

"I'm forming a new band and we're planning to incorporate a lot of new electronic style influences ala: skrillex, will.i.am."

[Robbins]

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droolmaster0 wrote:

Sure - one can have opinions about all sorts of things. But I just find it amusing when people talk about instruments as if they have actually used them. "Monster synth". Give me a break. Maybe if you used it, you wouldn't like the way it responded, or maybe you wouldn't like the interface. Maybe you'd drop it on your foot.

I always kind of pity the newbies on sites like this (and this isn't the only one - Gearslutz is just as bad) where you see all of these people talking about synths being "future classics" etc, and you'd think that maybe they actually have some experience with them, and with a wide variety of other instruments. But that is often not the case.

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I'm sure none in this thread, pretend to have used a non existing synth. You are wrong on this one.
Speculations and theories does not count as pretending.

[Thamel]

You can check out these 30 or so audio demos of the prophet 12 to help you compare....

http://en.audiofanzine.com/analog-synth/dave-smith-instruments/prophet-12/medias/audio/