Re: Im all kinds of confused on Key Signatures
First you should understand Natural Note Names (A B C D E F G), Accidentals with sharps (#) and flats (b) like C#, Gb, D#, Eb, etc, etc... You should also be aware that a note that has an accidental (# or b) can also use a Natural Sign to change it from an accidental back to a Natural Note Name. The Natural Sign is also considered an accidental as it changes a described note but it is never included in the key signature.
The Key Signature is nothing but a reference for a piece of music. Many people think it tells you what scale to play, this is not true in all cases as there is more to music than a blanket peice of information. It's primary purpose is to help you keep your sheet music less messy. If we didn't have have key signatures you would have to write in EVERY SINGLE # or b (sharp or flat, respectively) which at times can make sheet music pretty messy, quickly.
So, the Keys reference which line or space in the music should treated as a sharp or flat. The these #'s and b's in turn reference preconcieved scales or Major scale and Minor scale.
Every note on a staff is considered a Natural Note, UNLESS there is a # or b in the key signature, then those specific notes would be considered # or b.
What the references tell us...
The Key of C Major has no # or b, this tells us the scale reference is C D E F G A B C.
The Key of G Major has one #, and the key signature shows this sharp placed on the F note/space on the music, so the Key of G Major has G A B C D E F# G.
The Key of F Major has one b, the key signature shows the flat placed on the B note/line on the music, so the Key of F Major has F G A Bb C D E F.
So, if you know the note names for the lines and spaces on the sheet music, you just either # or b the notes the key signature tells you to throughout the piece of music. This means the person writing the music and write all natural notes on the staff, but the key signature tells the player that specific notes are considered to include a # or a b.
Getting the basic idea yet?
The Natural Sign comes into play when a key signature tells you to # or b a note, but the music/melody/song needs it to be a Natural Note name at times. For example if we are in the Key of G Major (which has F#, right?) and we need to play an F# at one point and a F Natural Note for some other part of the tune, we would use the Natural Sign in front of the F note to override what the key signature shows. This is VERY common as music never really stays in one scale per scale.
How can we learn what Keys have #'s or b's and how many? The quickest tool for that is the Circle of 5th's. The circle starts at the top with no #'s or b's (the Key of C Major) and continues clockwise adding a sharp each time, then switches to b's and descends from there back to the Key of C Major. And it works inversely whne moving counter clockwise.
Here's the Circle of 5ths, notice it also shows the Key "name" what notes have accidentals as well as what the Relative Minor Keys are in reference to the Major Keys (the Relative Minor Keys are called such because they have the same Key Signature as their Major counter part).
Remember, a Key is only a reference for what notes have accidentals by default, it's doesn't necessarily tell a play what scale to play in.
The Circle of 5ths is used for a lot more where music is concerned and a lot of music is evident when you learn more about it.
Here are some references for Keys, the Circle, and basic Theory everyone should know:
An organized, ground up approach to music theory (read the links in this order, Intervals, Chord Construction, and Diatonic Theory): http://lessons.mikedodge.com
What determines when an accidental should be a # or a b?: http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/how-do-i-know-when
Here's how jazz players use the Circle: http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/ii-v-i-playing-ove
Originally Posted by Django Sentenza
Re: Im all kinds of confused on Key Signatures
(nice, you can't disable smiles, thank you HC!)
Maybe you should read those links I posted, you think?...here's a Circle of 5ths Primer to show you something about...
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The Circle of 5th's is a way of organizing Keys.
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As you move clock wise you add more #'s and then less b's. These show you the Keys as you'd see them in notation.
If you look at the Circle of 5th's moving clockwise...it moves in 5th's. But, if you look at the circle counter clock wise, it's in 4th's.
Playing 5th's (or 4th's) you can create pratically endless chord movements...very nice chord movements...changing through keys.
In Jazz and Blues it's used like this in a turnaround in G...
||: G | C | G | Dm G | C | C#dim | G | E7 | A7 | D7 | G7 E7 | A7 D7 
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See how the Dm->G->C and E7->A7->D7->G7 move in 5th's/4th's?
Most people play these type of things for years and wonder "why does this sound so good?", let's just say, almost anything you play that's tied to the Circle somehow is always going to sound good to the western ear.
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Another use is a road map of ii-V-I progressions. You can start anywhere in the circle and make your starting note a min7 chord, then the next note counter clockwise, make it a dominant 7 chord. Then move one more note counter clock wise and make a maj7 chord from that note.
You've just created a ii7-V7-maj7 progression in the Key of the last note (the one you built the maj7 from).
How is this used? In Jazz Standards it's used something like this for an endless stream of ii-V-I's...notice how this walks directly backwards through the Circle of 5th's...MAKE SURE YOU REPEAT...even though it looks like a smiley)
||: Fm | Bb7 | Ebmaj7 | Ebmaj7 | Ebm7 | Ab7 | Dbmaj7 | Dbmaj7 | Dbm7 | F#7 | Bmaj7 | Bmaj7 | Bm7 | E7 | Amaj7| Amaj7 | Am7 | D7 | Gmaj7 | Gmaj7 | Gm7 | C7 | Fmaj7 | Fmaj7 |
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Another thing with the circle is, you can see every note IN a Key, and every note OUT of Key...
Take the Key of C (C D E F G A B C)
With a pencil, start at C and draw a line to G, continue it to D then to A then to E then to B...now, for the next note draw a line from B directly across the circle to F. Then continue your line from F to C.
You've completed all of the notes in the Key of C...but...
ALL the notes to the right are IN Key...and ALL the notes to the left are OUT of Key.
There's plenty more goofy stuff you can do with it...but this was just a primer.
rsadasiv wrote:Basically....
Yer Blues wrote:So, what exactly is the circle of 5ths? Just a cute way of laying at all the fifths and seeing how they relate to each other?
If gennation is posting on music it is well worth your time to read it. The ii-V-I article has lots of useful information on this idea. The V is a very slippery concept (see dom V and chord substitutions) - whether it is major or minor is a very small part of the larger harmonic issue. And as gennation points out in his post, the key of a song is not such a cut and dried thing. Can you tell me how to play ii-V-I in multiple keys at once?
Yer Blues wrote:I can tell you the 5th and whether it is major or minor. I can tell you how to play a ii-V-I in any key.
Is there something I am missing in the circle?
What do you mean by multiple keys at once? You could tell me play a ii-V-I in any key and I could do it. Usually I pick out the notes of the chords and then tie them back to a scale for something like that. "Autumn Leaves" is one I have been working on recently, namely the A section. The m7thb5 chord was new to me, but I understand why it is a minor 7th with a flat 5th.
I am not really set up for skype lessons. I need to get on some home improvements so I can get back into recording and have a nice setup. I just plug my laptop, or phone, into my home stereo to use speakers. I need to get a mini-studio setup. Genation is definitely the type of musician I would want to take a couple lessons from. There's a local guy who has played with Larry Coryell that I just found and I'm thinking about contacting him. I have figured out how to "teach myself" rock/blues/pop stuff, but getting into stuff like Carl Veryheyen is a bit beyond me at this point.
I also recall Genation had a great write up on Jimmy Herring. There are so many aspects to Herring's playing, but that's definitely something I would like to sit down with Gen in the future and discuss by skype.
Phil X also does skype lessons. They are a bit pricey, but I wouldn't mind picking his brain on how he approaches practicing, learning new things, etc 2-3 times vs. getting him to show you how to play certain things which you can figure out on your own.
Yer Blues wrote:What do you mean by multiple keys at once? You could tell me play a ii-V-I in any key and I could do it. Usually I pick out the notes of the chords and then tie them back to a scale for something like that. "Autumn Leaves" is one I have been working on recently, namely the A section. The m7thb5 chord was new to me, but I understand why it is a minor 7th with a flat 5th.
This kind of came up in the Chick Corea thread. gennation is claiming the whole thing is Bm, but that's what all the shredders think. 
When you are playing Autumn Leaves, you have three sets of chords which have a similar "up a fourth, down a fifth" relationship. Do you want to treat those sets of chords as if they were in the key of the original ii-V-I or do you want to treat them as if the key of the song has changed and now the key of the song is the third (ii-V-I) chord in the group? Or do you want to have it both ways - if someone has a good solo run going with notes from the original key maybe you want to leave it in the original key - if someone has a really cool riif that modulates well maybe you want to move the key and let them repeat their killer riff in a different position.
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