Electric Guitars

[jonny guitar]

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jrockbridge wrote:

Honestly, I like Classic Rock way better than Shred.  But, I can still recognize that Paul Gilbert has mad skills and appreciate his talent.  

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Paul Gilberts solo stuff is super entertaining....its funny, melodic and has great rhythm tracks to go along with the mind blowing solos.  I wouldn't even consider most of his solo albums as shred. 

Edit:  and I will add that watching Jimmy Bruno wank away playing his version of jazz at 190 mph, or Tommy Emmanuel wanking away with his percussive crap is equally as boring as any "shred".  Good music is good regardless of the speed or techniques used. 

[kayd_mon]

Wow. Never heard any one refer to Tommy Emmanuel's playing as crap before. Just proves that everyone has different taste.

Anyway, I have a couple of Paul Gilbert's solo CDs, and I like them. "Space Ship One" is a really cool song, as is "Mr. Spock" off that same disc.

[jonny guitar]

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kayd_mon wrote:
Wow. Never heard any one refer to Tommy Emmanuel's playing as crap before. Just proves that everyone has different taste.

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"percussive crap"    I love his stuff when he plays fingerstyle and cuts the theatrical side of his show:  he has an impressive talent but some of his stuff just drives me nuts.

[danswon]

I'm not even sure what "shred" is. It's a bullshit term to me

Warren DeMartini is an amazing guitarist, I don't care what people call it

[billybilly]

I really don't care how fast or slow someone plays, as long as I can feel it.  I don't like shred though and I define as playing really quickly with distortion, putting technique above feel.  This is often accompanied by a cookie monster voiced lead singer.

[Dr. Scottie C]

Anything in life that is extreme is going to get "extreme" opinions.

Malmsteen has an "extreme" distinct style.....whereas, say, Joe Perry of Aerosmith really does not.

The people that love Malmsteen are totally ape shit over him.....and his haters are just as passionate about their dislike.

Joe Perry..... no one really dislikes his playing..... but I have never heard or seen anyone referred to as a "Joe Perry ripoff." He just has a generic, but accepted style that are enjoyed my a majority of passive listeners.....

Where 99% of people who hear Malmsteen will either fall in love with the sound or say "what the fuck is this shit?"

[Mad Tele]

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billybilly wrote:

I really don't care how fast or slow someone plays, as long as I can feel it.  I don't like shred though and I define as playing really quickly with distortion, putting technique above feel.  This is often accompanied by a cookie monster voiced lead singer.

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thats not shred. 

we're talking about Bach Rock, not cookie monster metal.

[StuartBahn]

As with other styles of music, there is good and bad shredding. If you look on youtube you will find many examples of poor shredding which is fast scales up and down. If you listen to a Vinnie Moore solo however, there is far more to what he does than these other people. Phrasing, albeit fast, plays a vital part in good shredding.

[humbuckerstrat]

I love shred. I wish i was better @ it, tho.

[genesis3]

gee, how can you play a geetar and NOT like some degree of shredding? When someone argues how they see it as a negative thing, I'm only hearing 'I can't play that way, and I really wish I could to one degree or another, but since I can't, I'm pissed about it and will badmouth anything I hear that sounds shreddy lol.' And the louder and more passionate they argue , the higher the degree of being pissed they are that they can't play that way. Not to embarrass anyone , but that always goes thru my mind, so FYI haha!

Shredding doesn't only have to be neo-classical rock and metal too...Greg Howe plays very jazzlike stuff on a lot of his CD's and definitely shreds....good stuff.

[StuartBahn]

I agree. The line between shred and fusion (which is probably what Greg would say he plays) is pretty blurred.

[thecornman]

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genesis3 wrote:

gee, how can you play a geetar and NOT like some degree of shredding? When someone argues how they see it as a negative thing, I'm only hearing 'I can't play that way, and I really wish I could to one degree or another, but since I can't, I'm pissed about it and will badmouth anything I hear that sounds shreddy lol.' And the louder and more passionate they argue , the higher the degree of being pissed they are that they can't play that way. Not to embarrass anyone , but that always goes thru my mind, so FYI haha!

Shredding doesn't only have to be neo-classical rock and metal too...Greg Howe plays very jazzlike stuff on a lot of his CD's and definitely shreds....good stuff.

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This is what I always think as well when people trash others that have put the time in to be better!  It is a lot easier to cut down others then to put the time in yourself to improve.  Every person I have played with that cuts down people that can play fast with good technique struggles to put together a decent solo with the one scale they know, but talks about how they play with more feeling even though they can not bend a note to pitch.

[kayd_mon]

Maybe bending off-key notes is what they consider 'feeling.' It's all opinion anyway.

Sort of lol

[Marko]

I think there are lots of good guitarists who have no interest in shredding, maybe because they like music as opposed to just guitar wankery. 

I personally don’t even care for electric guitar as a lead instrument.  I think it’s just a cheap convenient way to fill in those solo spots and extend songs with a plenty of noise, and the quality of music has deteriorated as a result of its overuse.

It has also allowed the subsequent star-wannabe guitar wankers and tone freaks to dominate live stages in smaller venues and abuse the ears of the patrons, many/most of whom don’t know better or just learn to live with it because three/four-piece (guitars-bass-drum-mediocre/sucky vocals) are cheap/affordable. 

This probably isn’t the most-appropriate forum to say all this, but it seems on-topic for this particular thread, as that may be part of why “shredders get a bad rap”- I dunno for sure. 

For what it’s worth, my electric guitar is strapped on as I type this, I love playing and this isn’t a bash on electric guitar playing.

Peace,

Marko

[BydoEmpire]

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Marko wrote:

...maybe because they like music as opposed to just guitar wankery. 

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I don't know, man, that's seems like a pretty narrow definition of "music."  Just my 2c.  Are Bach's piano sonatas "piano wankery" instead of music?  Is "Giant Steps" saxophone wankery because there aren't lyrics, the harmony is relatively complex and the tempo is ridiculous?  Not that everyone has to like everything, I think there are good and bad examples of every genre - from pop to classical to blues to shred.  And what's good or bad is usually subjective (not always, some stuff is just plain bad. ^_^).

Maybe the issue - and part of the bad rap - is that there's just a lot of "bad" shred out there.  I think it's similar to modern blues.  There's a lot of "bad" blues out there too, so a lot of people don't ever connect to the genre because a high percentage of what they here just isn't done very well.   I'll leave the definition of what's bad or good up to the individual...

Totally agree there are a lot of great guitarists with no interest in shredding.  David Gilmour being one, who's my favorite electric guitarist.

[Marko]

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BydoEmpire wrote:

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Marko wrote:

...maybe because they like music as opposed to just guitar wankery. 

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I don't know, man, that's seems like a pretty narrow definition of "music."  Just my 2c.  Are Bach's piano sonatas "piano wankery" instead of music?  Is "Giant Steps" saxophone wankery because there aren't lyrics, the harmony is relatively complex and the tempo is ridiculous?  Not that everyone has to like everything, I think there are good and bad examples of every genre - from pop to classical to blues to shred.  And what's good or bad is usually subjective (not always, some stuff is just plain bad. ^_^).

Maybe the issue - and part of the bad rap - is that there's just a lot of "bad" shred out there.  I think it's similar to modern blues.  There's a lot of "bad" blues out there too, so a lot of people don't ever connect to the genre because a high percentage of what they here just isn't done very well.   I'll leave the definition of what's bad or good up to the individual...

Totally agree there are a lot of great guitarists with no interest in shredding.  David Gilmour being one, who's my favorite electric guitarist.

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Yes, it does seem narrow, but hopefully the rest of my post expanded on that a bit.

You make some good points, for sure. 

[danswon]

When I think of "shred" in a negative sense, I think of Vinnie Vincent Invasion solos, or Michael Angelo Batio.

A lot of the bad 80s shred hair metal stuff has been pretty much forgotten about and consigned to history. And rightly so.
I think about 90% of the music in any genre is crap tbh, it's just that someone trying to show off on the guitar brings more attention to himself than most.

[honeyiscool]

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Mad Tele wrote:

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billybilly wrote:

I really don't care how fast or slow someone plays, as long as I can feel it.  I don't like shred though and I define as playing really quickly with distortion, putting technique above feel.  This is often accompanied by a cookie monster voiced lead singer.

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thats not shred. 

we're talking about Bach Rock, not cookie monster metal.

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I fucking hate how all these shredders love to associate their music with Bach... but fast scales are maybe about 10% of what Bach is all about, there is so much more that they're not emulating. Bach knew when to be fast and when to be slow and melodic, and even when he wrote fast parts, they are very tasteful and economical.

[honeyiscool]

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StuartBahn wrote:

I agree. The line between shred and fusion (which is probably what Greg would say he plays) is pretty blurred.

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I don't really consider jazz to be shred. I consider shredding to be a distinctly post-EVH thing.

[DaveAronow]

The Hellecasters are better than ALL those clowns