Electric Guitars

[lilfoolish50]

Heya. 

I'm not very knowledgeable in guitar technicalities. Could someone give me a rundown, as detailed as you like, of everything one may need to know about pickups as far as output goes? 

Such as, difference in tone in general, difference in clean vs difference in gain.

High-output humbuckers vs high output single coils. 

Most specifically, I'm looking for the tonal difference between low-output pickups into a higher gain amp vs. high-output pickups with the gain dialed not-as-high.  And also, if i wanted to increase the output of my pickups artificially (whether they be low or high to begin with), is placing a volume boost effects pedal in front of the amp an option?

[omni]

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lilfoolish50 wrote:

Heya. 

I'm not very knowledgeable in guitar technicalities. Could someone give me a rundown, as detailed as you like, of everything one may need to know about pickups as far as output goes? 

Such as, difference in tone in general, difference in clean vs difference in gain.

High-output humbuckers vs high output single coils. 

Most specifically, I'm looking for the tonal difference between low-output pickups into a higher gain amp vs. high-output pickups with the gain dialed not-as-high.  And also, if i wanted to increase the output of my pickups artificially (whether they be low or high to begin with), is placing a volume boost effects pedal in front of the amp an option?

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Depends on the amp and type of music you play.  What amp do you use? What style music do you play?

[lilfoolish50]

guh.  This is where i start taking flak...

I play rock, alternative/pop-punk.  Kinda rise against / yellowcard / silverstein , on the off-chance that that helps.

..........................And i play a single coil strat... through a line 6 spider valve combo... with a digitech multifx pedal.

And despite what I know I'm going to hear from people, I actually do like the way I sound.  Not conventional by any stretch of the imagination, but I like it.  But I want to try different things--both with what i already have, (hence the raising output with volume boost question) and with what i want to buy in the future (probably humbuckers for a different sound).

[billybilly]

Generally, low output pickups have better definition and don't sound muddy.  Better note separation comes to mind.  High output pickups can drive a tube amp better and generally, have a thicker tone.  However, there are always exceptions.  Most pickups can be dialed in to suit needs, as long as they are not too over the top. 

I like medium/low neck pickups and medium/high bridge pickups and can get them to accommodate pretty much any music style.

[omni]

I like med output pups. I play old school rock all the way to modern metal but I use Mesa rectifier that pretty much takes care of it all within different modes. If you are using a Line 6, I would imagine that it will all pretty much sound the same. I would stick with some med output pickups.

[omni]

Billy everytime I see your cat it brings a smile to my face and heart. I sure miss my cat. Yes. I am a puss.

[danswon]

I think if you want maximum versatility and don't want to spend much, a hot humbucker set like this http://www.eyguitarmusic.com/Artec-HBLB-Hot-Rail-Humbucker-pickupsBlack-with-Black-barCeramic_p_1132... with a series/parallel switch should cover a lot of ground, everything from noiseless single-coil like tones to full on creaming metal.

[Pine Apple Slim]

You should give Wylde/Bill Lawrence a spin.
This is his L45S strat and L48TL tele combo. They will make any sound depending on your signal chain. Not high output at all, very clean and hi fi on their own, but will take any gain level you throw at em and never get muddy. They run around $50 each.

[Wayne2]

I have two guitars, one with low output and one with high.

The strat has Fat 50s pickups.  I think the DC resistance was around 5-6 kiloohms the time I measured.  They sound great clean, like a real nice balanced colorful sound.  With distortion they can get tough sounding, like imagine the tone on RHCP Dani California.

The Blacktop Jaguar has much hotter pickups, and they're humbuckers.  They have around 13K resistance if I remember correctly.  The clean tone is a lot plainer and simpler sounding, and to be honest I don't care for it much unless I roll back the volume knob to about 6-7.  (and I replaced my volume pot with one that has an audio taper).  Then it's kind of a more laid-back sound, warmer than the strat but a little boring.  With distortion these pickups sound great though.  I can turn it up to 9-10 and it gets this electrified sound more like the Offspring.  That mid spike that is annoying and strident with clean tone somehow smooths out and sounds powerful and ballsy with a lot of gain.

This is simplifying in my case but I like the low output pickups a better in most situations but I'm glad I have both.  One day I'd like to own another guitar, with low output humbuckers because I'd love to be able to get nice clean humbucker tones that sound sweet like Chet Atkins.  Also a lot of classic rock has low to moderate output humbuckers.  But I'm really not a good enough player for it to make that much of a difference at this point.

[lilfoolish50]

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billybilly wrote:

Generally, low output pickups have better definition and don't sound muddy.  Better note separation comes to mind.

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I did not know this! That's actually probably why i like the sound i already have, despite the tendency in rock music to favor humbuckers, or just warmer tones in general, than a strat on the bridge pickup...

Yall's replies have been very helpful--and so ill ask one more (rather broader) question.  For now, while i don't have the money to buy another guitar, (or have another guitar on-hand to stuff new pickups into, as pine apple slim suggested), would adding a volume boost pedal in front of the amp give me a thicker or better amp-driving tone, with the guitar i already have?  I generally switch to my middle pickup and adjust my eq pedal (in the fx loop) for songs that call for a warmer sound, but the results have been unsatisfactory...muddy, fuzzy, lacking presence, and rather flimsy and thin in tone--a lack in rock grit.  I don't expect perfect results here--a strat through a line6 won't sound exactly like a les paul or a schecter through a marshall or egnater or what-have-you, no matter what workarounds i come up with.  But the sound i currently have, while perfect for the songs i write, does not quite satisfy my bandmates when they write songs that require a thicker, warmer sound, and I'd just like to have some kind of short-term solution that would tide me over until i buy a second guitar.  The reason i first posted my question was that boosting signal in front of the amp is one thing i thought of that i can do with my current rig (translation: doesnt cost me a dime) to change my sound, but i am open to any and all suggestions.

[bjcarl]

Buy one of these used.  Adjust to taste.

[*BLEEP*]

A true overdrive or boost pedal (not a distortion pedal) will increase the strength of the pickup signal with very little if any audible change in natural tonal quality of the pickup. You can overload the preamp input to your liking without having to resort to overwound pickups.

[lilfoolish50]

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*BLEEP* wrote:
A true overdrive or boost pedal (not a distortion pedal) will increase the strength of the pickup signal with very little if any audible change in natural tonal quality of the pickup. You can overload the preamp input to your liking without having to resort to overwound pickups.

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This may be a silly question, considering i also know very little about the mechanics of amps...but is there a such thing as too much signal boost? Could i damage the amp?

[*BLEEP*]

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lilfoolish50 wrote:

This may be a silly question, considering i also know very little about the mechanics of amps...but is there a such thing as too much signal boost? Could i damage the amp?

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You won't damage the preamp section of an electric guitar amp with any off-the-shelf overdrive, booster, or distrotion pedal.  Such pedals produce a maximum output of 1 to 2 volts RMS.  However, if you were to plug the speaker output of another guitar amp into the preamp of a second guitar amp, then yes, circuits are going to be fried because of the 30 to 50 volt input signal.  

Too much "safe" overdrive or boosting will simply sound flabby and muddy and not damage the preamp circuit.  If you have flimsy or underrated loudspeakers loaded in your cabinet that can't take the sonic punishment of mud and buzz at higher volume levels, or for extended stretches of time, that is what could ultimately be damaged.  

[reverberlayed]

I would suggest modding your Strat so that a tone knob is connected to the bridge pickup. Rolling it back a few notches really warms it up without becoming muddy.

[Sparky Coldfire]

I don't think changing the pickups will really get you where you want to go, but it will probably be a small step in the right direction.  Here is a video that compares the tone of humbuckers with single coils. youtube link  There are lots of these, so watch more if you need to.  Just be careful when comparing tones from different videos because all the other factors (guitar, amp , pedals, mic, etc.) contribute to the overall tone a lot more than just the pickups alone.  That being said, I think a particularly versatile guitar (tone wise) is a fat strat. A humbucker in the bridge is a totally heavy rocking tone. And if you get a noiseless single coil pickup (really a humbucker voiced to be more jangly like a SC) for the neck, with possibly a sort of medium to light wound hummer (in single coil size and shape) for the mid position, your guitar would be capable of putting out a wide array of sonic possibilities without much noise.  Some single coil folks will scoff at this because it doesn't truly represent a single coil sound, which is true, but IMHO it's very close.  So close that for me that I favor the lower noise over the slight tonal compromise, but like I say opinions will be varied on this.  However, again, I note that the pickups are just one piece of the puzzle, and a small one at that.  I also like the idea of a tone control on the bridge pup.  Nice to have for sure.

[eeddings]

Don't the guys in Rise Against play Gibsons with '57 Classic or 490 HBs?

[Wayne2]

Regarding the RAT pedal:

"It works magnificently with Strats (and other guitars with single coil pickups). The RAT pedal was designed to ensure that “Strat” players would have enough gain to compete with any humbucking-equipped instrument." - ProCo Rat Distortion FAQs

Having a Dirty Rat myself I can confirm this.  I play it into a clean solid state amp and it sounds huge.  All three knobs on the Rat are really useful and effective.  Before getting this pedal I spent about a year messing around with different brands of tubes and a clean boost and an EQ pedal and nothing quite got me where I wanted.  I was so hung up on the clean boost idea that I missed an obvious answer.

[jtr654]

Back when they started making High output pickups it was to push the tubes a little harder because there were no high gain / preamp & master, 2 or 3 channel  type amps. Now you can get a amp that will go from clean to more gain than you can ever use so I stay with low or mid output pickups. You can dirty up a clean sounding pickup but you cant get a dirty one to ever give you pristine cleans.