DIY (Do It Yourself)

[xtianmind]

I want to be able to play rhythms like this. For some reason this doesn't seem impossible. Is it possible to create a similar experience with Ableton Live or another similar program?

I am looking to create styles like this, with variations, and breaks. Anyone done something similar to this? I want to be able to change the chord simply by pressing the chord on a midi keyboard. Any ideas?

$1000 for this keyboard is not in my range.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZXvNTyatYY

[WRGKMC]

You can buy a decent full sized Yamaha or Casio Keyboard with Midi capabilities for ~$100~$200.
I own about three of them and you can connect them to a computer and use them as a
midi keyboard to record what you play. You can also compose o rdit what you record on the
computer and have the keyboard play back for you. They work both ways.

The one Yamaha I have has some decent auto rhythms built into it and you can record
directly into the keyboard live or by steps if you want too. You can do the same things with
a good DAW program. You can play into the computer, correct note timing, Pitch, change the voices,
copy and move parts around. Theres all kinds of things you can do its just a matter of learning the DAW
technical capibilities and using your own talent. There is a learning curve of course, figuring out how things
patch together but it gets easier as you go.

[WRGKMC]

You can buy a decent full sized Yamaha or Casio Keyboard with Midi capabilities for ~$100~$200.
I own about three of them and you can connect them to a computer and use them as a
midi keyboard to record what you play. You can also compose o rdit what you record on the
computer and have the keyboard play back for you. They work both ways.

The one Yamaha I have has some decent auto rhythms built into it and you can record
directly into the keyboard live or by steps if you want too. You can do the same things with
a good DAW program. You can play into the computer, correct note timing, Pitch, change the voices,
copy and move parts around. Theres all kinds of things you can do its just a matter of learning the DAW
technical capibilities and using your own talent. There is a learning curve of course, figuring out how things
patch together but it gets easier as you go.

[xtianmind]

I know you can record each part individually each and every time. But I would like to record several variations once,and change chords by simply pressing the chord on the midi keyboard. Like the video I posted.

[xtianmind]

I know you can record each part individually each and every time. But I would like to record several variations once,and change chords by simply pressing the chord on the midi keyboard. Like the video I posted.

[WRGKMC]

Not sure what you're asking for.
What you were listeneing to in that video was the keyboard's auto accompaniment
thats recorded and stored in the keyboards memory. Some of it was factory presets
and some of it was user written and stored in the keyboard. The keyboard "is" a
multitrack studio where you build tracks and play them back with a single touch of a
key and the notes and pitch changes are syncronized to the keyboards built in sequencer.

Keyboards do come with a certain number of rythum/bass/chorus pattern presets.
A modern day player piano as you might call it. You can then go in and change or
rewrite what the piano roll plays back.

Then you have the option of changing keys with one touch, or full chord on the keyboard.
Then you can record that backing track into a song bank along with chord changes, drum breaks etc.

Next you can set up hot keys that switch from one song to another or change rhythm patterns
during a playback. The options of what you can do wn you add in the keyboards ability to save
what your write in are pretty much limitless.

In other words, The keyboard itseld is a recording station and you can build tracks that can
be played back upon demand, and since the notes are midi they can all be sequenced
nd manipulated to the same clock. You can use the keyboards factory loops, modify those
loops, or write your own loops then play along to the lloops you already built.

The guy in that video wasnt playing all that stuff live. What he was doing was switching between
pre recorded loops stored in memory. Then along with that half the keyboard can be split to change
keys of the bass pattern, chord, and other bguttons to add drum breaks etc.
All that stuff is pre planned to some extent. If you know where the banks are saved,
its simply a matter of playing them back while the sequencer is running.

As I said, get yourself a Yamaha or Casio that has midi. They have many of those basic features
built in albiet on a more limited basis and less memory. Bigger keyboards are simply more complex
and have a built in DAW thats specialized. A low end keyboard can connect to a computer and give you
many of those options but you have to start somewhere to learn the technology involved.
Of course connecting a keyboard to a computer is not going to turn it into a high end rolland,
but there are still many cool things you can do.

I do have a midi setup connected to my DAW but I'm not an expert on the subject. Keyboard
is a secondary instrument for me. I learned enough to add what I need for my recordings,
but you really need to ask a pro keyboardist if you want to go deeper.

I've only explored maybe 20% of the possible technical options.
I understand where it goes and how far it goes but its not my goal as a musician to be half
audio engineer as I play. I keep the two separate. When I play by focus is on playing 100%.
Pushing buttons, switching loops is more like bing a DJ then a musician to me.
Some guys are really talented at it but I find all that pushbutton stuff boaring and it distracts
from my playing skill.

This is a bit off topic but it does tie in to some extent.

I'm mainly a string man who incorperates the technology into my music where its needed.
I keep pure talent as the foundation to music and use technology to enhance it.
I dont like using technology as the foundation. Its fake to me. Most of your time is spent
making/faking a robot to sound human. I do use drum sequencers as a convenience when I'm
not using an actual drummer or playing drums myself to write music. Sound quality is great but
sequenced drums are boaring to me because they are predictable.

The quest for technology to substitute actual performers does not replace the human element of music.
Many take that road in hopes it will lead to nirvana but its always a dead end for a true artist.
You can wow people and fake them into thinking you're great but you cant fool yourself.
Once you know the technology it eventually becomes as boaring as cranking a music box by hand.

If the machine makes all the music, wheres the human challange? Is like watching football on a TV.
You may have some emotional responce but its not nearly as fun as actually playing the game yourself.
And if you've never played the game, you never learn what it takes to both rely on other players and
support those players, Win and loose with those players, so you never learn how to improve your skills
nor build a team like you would working with other musicians.

Technology can be great for recording and practice. I say balls to the walls for whatever you can do creatively with it.
If I were to choose a keyboardist for my band, I wouldnt want someone so reliant on his technology as a crutch to
his playing abilities. Give me a guy with a basic Rhodes piano or Hammond who can adapt to other players and music
styles through his playing skills first and foremost. If he knows the technology and can work it in seamlessly to enhance
the music without waiting on the guy to find the right buttons its an added value. If you got to stop and let the guy find
the right patches because he hasnt done his homework, its a distraction that sucks the creative air out of the room.

[WRGKMC]

Not sure what you're asking for.
What you were listeneing to in that video was the keyboard's auto accompaniment
thats recorded and stored in the keyboards memory. Some of it was factory presets
and some of it was user written and stored in the keyboard. The keyboard "is" a
multitrack studio where you build tracks and play them back with a single touch of a
key and the notes and pitch changes are syncronized to the keyboards built in sequencer.

Keyboards do come with a certain number of rythum/bass/chorus pattern presets.
A modern day player piano as you might call it. You can then go in and change or
rewrite what the piano roll plays back.

Then you have the option of changing keys with one touch, or full chord on the keyboard.
Then you can record that backing track into a song bank along with chord changes, drum breaks etc.

Next you can set up hot keys that switch from one song to another or change rhythm patterns
during a playback. The options of what you can do wn you add in the keyboards ability to save
what your write in are pretty much limitless.

In other words, The keyboard itseld is a recording station and you can build tracks that can
be played back upon demand, and since the notes are midi they can all be sequenced
nd manipulated to the same clock. You can use the keyboards factory loops, modify those
loops, or write your own loops then play along to the lloops you already built.

The guy in that video wasnt playing all that stuff live. What he was doing was switching between
pre recorded loops stored in memory. Then along with that half the keyboard can be split to change
keys of the bass pattern, chord, and other bguttons to add drum breaks etc.
All that stuff is pre planned to some extent. If you know where the banks are saved,
its simply a matter of playing them back while the sequencer is running.

As I said, get yourself a Yamaha or Casio that has midi. They have many of those basic features
built in albiet on a more limited basis and less memory. Bigger keyboards are simply more complex
and have a built in DAW thats specialized. A low end keyboard can connect to a computer and give you
many of those options but you have to start somewhere to learn the technology involved.
Of course connecting a keyboard to a computer is not going to turn it into a high end rolland,
but there are still many cool things you can do.

I do have a midi setup connected to my DAW but I'm not an expert on the subject. Keyboard
is a secondary instrument for me. I learned enough to add what I need for my recordings,
but you really need to ask a pro keyboardist if you want to go deeper.

I've only explored maybe 20% of the possible technical options.
I understand where it goes and how far it goes but its not my goal as a musician to be half
audio engineer as I play. I keep the two separate. When I play by focus is on playing 100%.
Pushing buttons, switching loops is more like bing a DJ then a musician to me.
Some guys are really talented at it but I find all that pushbutton stuff boaring and it distracts
from my playing skill.

This is a bit off topic but it does tie in to some extent.

I'm mainly a string man who incorperates the technology into my music where its needed.
I keep pure talent as the foundation to music and use technology to enhance it.
I dont like using technology as the foundation. Its fake to me. Most of your time is spent
making/faking a robot to sound human. I do use drum sequencers as a convenience when I'm
not using an actual drummer or playing drums myself to write music. Sound quality is great but
sequenced drums are boaring to me because they are predictable.

The quest for technology to substitute actual performers does not replace the human element of music.
Many take that road in hopes it will lead to nirvana but its always a dead end for a true artist.
You can wow people and fake them into thinking you're great but you cant fool yourself.
Once you know the technology it eventually becomes as boaring as cranking a music box by hand.

If the machine makes all the music, wheres the human challange? Is like watching football on a TV.
You may have some emotional responce but its not nearly as fun as actually playing the game yourself.
And if you've never played the game, you never learn what it takes to both rely on other players and
support those players, Win and loose with those players, so you never learn how to improve your skills
nor build a team like you would working with other musicians.

Technology can be great for recording and practice. I say balls to the walls for whatever you can do creatively with it.
If I were to choose a keyboardist for my band, I wouldnt want someone so reliant on his technology as a crutch to
his playing abilities. Give me a guy with a basic Rhodes piano or Hammond who can adapt to other players and music
styles through his playing skills first and foremost. If he knows the technology and can work it in seamlessly to enhance
the music without waiting on the guy to find the right buttons its an added value. If you got to stop and let the guy find
the right patches because he hasnt done his homework, its a distraction that sucks the creative air out of the room.

[xtianmind]

Originally Posted by WRGKMC

Not sure what you're asking for.
What you were listeneing to in that video was the keyboard's auto accompaniment
thats recorded and stored in the keyboards memory. Some of it was factory presets
and some of it was user written and stored in the keyboard. The keyboard "is" a
multitrack studio where you build tracks and play them back with a single touch of a
key and the notes and pitch changes are syncronized to the keyboards built in sequencer.

Keyboards do come with a certain number of rythum/bass/chorus pattern presets.
A modern day player piano as you might call it. You can then go in and change or
rewrite what the piano roll plays back.

Then you have the option of changing keys with one touch, or full chord on the keyboard.
Then you can record that backing track into a song bank along with chord changes, drum breaks etc.

Next you can set up hot keys that switch from one song to another or change rhythm patterns
during a playback. The options of what you can do wn you add in the keyboards ability to save
what your write in are pretty much limitless.

In other words, The keyboard itseld is a recording station and you can build tracks that can
be played back upon demand, and since the notes are midi they can all be sequenced
nd manipulated to the same clock. You can use the keyboards factory loops, modify those
loops, or write your own loops then play along to the lloops you already built.

The guy in that video wasnt playing all that stuff live. What he was doing was switching between
pre recorded loops stored in memory. Then along with that half the keyboard can be split to change
keys of the bass pattern, chord, and other bguttons to add drum breaks etc.
All that stuff is pre planned to some extent. If you know where the banks are saved,
its simply a matter of playing them back while the sequencer is running.

As I said, get yourself a Yamaha or Casio that has midi. They have many of those basic features
built in albiet on a more limited basis and less memory. Bigger keyboards are simply more complex
and have a built in DAW thats specialized. A low end keyboard can connect to a computer and give you
many of those options but you have to start somewhere to learn the technology involved.
Of course connecting a keyboard to a computer is not going to turn it into a high end rolland,
but there are still many cool things you can do.

I do have a midi setup connected to my DAW but I'm not an expert on the subject. Keyboard
is a secondary instrument for me. I learned enough to add what I need for my recordings,
but you really need to ask a pro keyboardist if you want to go deeper.

I've only explored maybe 20% of the possible technical options.
I understand where it goes and how far it goes but its not my goal as a musician to be half
audio engineer as I play. I keep the two separate. When I play by focus is on playing 100%.
Pushing buttons, switching loops is more like bing a DJ then a musician to me.
Some guys are really talented at it but I find all that pushbutton stuff boaring and it distracts
from my playing skill.

This is a bit off topic but it does tie in to some extent.

I'm mainly a string man who incorperates the technology into my music where its needed.
I keep pure talent as the foundation to music and use technology to enhance it.
I dont like using technology as the foundation. Its fake to me. Most of your time is spent
making/faking a robot to sound human. I do use drum sequencers as a convenience when I'm
not using an actual drummer or playing drums myself to write music. Sound quality is great but
sequenced drums are boaring to me because they are predictable.

The quest for technology to substitute actual performers does not replace the human element of music.
Many take that road in hopes it will lead to nirvana but its always a dead end for a true artist.
You can wow people and fake them into thinking you're great but you cant fool yourself.
Once you know the technology it eventually becomes as boaring as cranking a music box by hand.

If the machine makes all the music, wheres the human challange? Is like watching football on a TV.
You may have some emotional responce but its not nearly as fun as actually playing the game yourself.
And if you've never played the game, you never learn what it takes to both rely on other players and
support those players, Win and loose with those players, so you never learn how to improve your skills
nor build a team like you would working with other musicians.

Technology can be great for recording and practice. I say balls to the walls for whatever you can do creatively with it.
If I were to choose a keyboardist for my band, I wouldnt want someone so reliant on his technology as a crutch to
his playing abilities. Give me a guy with a basic Rhodes piano or Hammond who can adapt to other players and music
styles through his playing skills first and foremost. If he knows the technology and can work it in seamlessly to enhance
the music without waiting on the guy to find the right buttons its an added value. If you got to stop and let the guy find
the right patches because he hasnt done his homework, its a distraction that sucks the creative air out of the room.

That is what I am looking for. for a way to create my own auto-accompaniment without actually buying the keyboard.. IS there a way to do this?

[xtianmind]

Originally Posted by WRGKMC

Not sure what you're asking for.
What you were listeneing to in that video was the keyboard's auto accompaniment
thats recorded and stored in the keyboards memory. Some of it was factory presets
and some of it was user written and stored in the keyboard. The keyboard "is" a
multitrack studio where you build tracks and play them back with a single touch of a
key and the notes and pitch changes are syncronized to the keyboards built in sequencer.

Keyboards do come with a certain number of rythum/bass/chorus pattern presets.
A modern day player piano as you might call it. You can then go in and change or
rewrite what the piano roll plays back.

Then you have the option of changing keys with one touch, or full chord on the keyboard.
Then you can record that backing track into a song bank along with chord changes, drum breaks etc.

Next you can set up hot keys that switch from one song to another or change rhythm patterns
during a playback. The options of what you can do wn you add in the keyboards ability to save
what your write in are pretty much limitless.

In other words, The keyboard itseld is a recording station and you can build tracks that can
be played back upon demand, and since the notes are midi they can all be sequenced
nd manipulated to the same clock. You can use the keyboards factory loops, modify those
loops, or write your own loops then play along to the lloops you already built.

The guy in that video wasnt playing all that stuff live. What he was doing was switching between
pre recorded loops stored in memory. Then along with that half the keyboard can be split to change
keys of the bass pattern, chord, and other bguttons to add drum breaks etc.
All that stuff is pre planned to some extent. If you know where the banks are saved,
its simply a matter of playing them back while the sequencer is running.

As I said, get yourself a Yamaha or Casio that has midi. They have many of those basic features
built in albiet on a more limited basis and less memory. Bigger keyboards are simply more complex
and have a built in DAW thats specialized. A low end keyboard can connect to a computer and give you
many of those options but you have to start somewhere to learn the technology involved.
Of course connecting a keyboard to a computer is not going to turn it into a high end rolland,
but there are still many cool things you can do.

I do have a midi setup connected to my DAW but I'm not an expert on the subject. Keyboard
is a secondary instrument for me. I learned enough to add what I need for my recordings,
but you really need to ask a pro keyboardist if you want to go deeper.

I've only explored maybe 20% of the possible technical options.
I understand where it goes and how far it goes but its not my goal as a musician to be half
audio engineer as I play. I keep the two separate. When I play by focus is on playing 100%.
Pushing buttons, switching loops is more like bing a DJ then a musician to me.
Some guys are really talented at it but I find all that pushbutton stuff boaring and it distracts
from my playing skill.

This is a bit off topic but it does tie in to some extent.

I'm mainly a string man who incorperates the technology into my music where its needed.
I keep pure talent as the foundation to music and use technology to enhance it.
I dont like using technology as the foundation. Its fake to me. Most of your time is spent
making/faking a robot to sound human. I do use drum sequencers as a convenience when I'm
not using an actual drummer or playing drums myself to write music. Sound quality is great but
sequenced drums are boaring to me because they are predictable.

The quest for technology to substitute actual performers does not replace the human element of music.
Many take that road in hopes it will lead to nirvana but its always a dead end for a true artist.
You can wow people and fake them into thinking you're great but you cant fool yourself.
Once you know the technology it eventually becomes as boaring as cranking a music box by hand.

If the machine makes all the music, wheres the human challange? Is like watching football on a TV.
You may have some emotional responce but its not nearly as fun as actually playing the game yourself.
And if you've never played the game, you never learn what it takes to both rely on other players and
support those players, Win and loose with those players, so you never learn how to improve your skills
nor build a team like you would working with other musicians.

Technology can be great for recording and practice. I say balls to the walls for whatever you can do creatively with it.
If I were to choose a keyboardist for my band, I wouldnt want someone so reliant on his technology as a crutch to
his playing abilities. Give me a guy with a basic Rhodes piano or Hammond who can adapt to other players and music
styles through his playing skills first and foremost. If he knows the technology and can work it in seamlessly to enhance
the music without waiting on the guy to find the right buttons its an added value. If you got to stop and let the guy find
the right patches because he hasnt done his homework, its a distraction that sucks the creative air out of the room.

That is what I am looking for. for a way to create my own auto-accompaniment without actually buying the keyboard.. IS there a way to do this?

[WRGKMC]

Yes, Buy a low cost midi keyboard and then build your loops within the DAW program.
You can download all kinds of midi synths, keyboards, and drums for the voicing and arrangements.
I'm not sure what kind of midi package Ableton live has. Some DAW programs are better than others
but most will allow you to build arrangements. Its not going to have pre made midi loops, but you can
download and import many of those, then cut paste and alter them as you want.

You can buy a midi only keyboard which makes no sound on its own, or like I said, a Yamaha or Casio
that has some built in voices and drum patterns. The cost isnt any more so thats why I made the suggestion.
With a midi only keyboard, you need a voice modual to create live voices. An added cost but many do buy
a midi keyboard with weighted keys then get all their voices from a midi modual or laptop. Many of the virtual instruments
you can download sound like the real deal. I have several on my computer. Something like the Native B3 sounds
just like a Hammond Organ and you wouldnt be able to tell the two appart.

There is going to be allot more work as I said building the loops in a computer.
What I did to get me going was to download some midi songs and open them up in the DAW program.
Once opened, each instrument is its own track. You can then change the tracks voicing, make a piano a guitar,
trumpet a bass, etc etc. You can also change the notes being played, add additional notes, change pitches, timing etc.
Or you can dub in your own parts with the keyboard, punch in your own lead parts, tap in your own drum breaks etc.

If you get a notation program you can even click your own notes in with a mouse. I have an old program called midisoft
I still use for that stuff. Its time consuming but is handy for touch ups. Your bigger programs like Finale, Sibelius or Notion
are what pro composers use. Stuff like movie scores are all composed on these kind of programs and synced to the film.
Its not like the old days where you still have a full orchestra recording the music to a film. Some of your bigger budget films
still have that, but for the most part you have one guy who does it all with a musical program building all those musical
sequences to fit allong with the narration in the background. Little of it is real instruments, its mostly midi instruments and samples
all composed in a notation program and imported into a DAW program where the music is cut and pasted in to fit the narration.

I use Sonar Producer for simular stuff. You can even set up two monitors and have the movie on one screen and have your daw mixer on the other.
Then you can compose music to the video. I mainly use it for live band videos. I can go in and add music tracks and remix the live recordings.
I could add midi instruments too, but like I said, most of my work is with audio tracks. I have done some stuff 100% midi. Its fun but I enjoy writing
music I can play live with a band. Building tracks with multi midi instruments would require several keyboard players to perform live.

Since its Christmas, heres a midi tune I wrote 10 years ago.
It was just an experimental orchestrational piece played to a click track that
has kind of a dark historic Christmas movie sound track sound to it.
You can hear how all the tracks were built from separate midi voices.
I then exported it from the DAW program as an audio file for CD burning and
add it to my collection of Christmas music. I make a point of recording one
Christmas tune a year, some traditional and some original. Some wind up being pretty unique.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1682170/2002.mp3

[WRGKMC]

Yes, Buy a low cost midi keyboard and then build your loops within the DAW program.
You can download all kinds of midi synths, keyboards, and drums for the voicing and arrangements.
I'm not sure what kind of midi package Ableton live has. Some DAW programs are better than others
but most will allow you to build arrangements. Its not going to have pre made midi loops, but you can
download and import many of those, then cut paste and alter them as you want.

You can buy a midi only keyboard which makes no sound on its own, or like I said, a Yamaha or Casio
that has some built in voices and drum patterns. The cost isnt any more so thats why I made the suggestion.
With a midi only keyboard, you need a voice modual to create live voices. An added cost but many do buy
a midi keyboard with weighted keys then get all their voices from a midi modual or laptop. Many of the virtual instruments
you can download sound like the real deal. I have several on my computer. Something like the Native B3 sounds
just like a Hammond Organ and you wouldnt be able to tell the two appart.

There is going to be allot more work as I said building the loops in a computer.
What I did to get me going was to download some midi songs and open them up in the DAW program.
Once opened, each instrument is its own track. You can then change the tracks voicing, make a piano a guitar,
trumpet a bass, etc etc. You can also change the notes being played, add additional notes, change pitches, timing etc.
Or you can dub in your own parts with the keyboard, punch in your own lead parts, tap in your own drum breaks etc.

If you get a notation program you can even click your own notes in with a mouse. I have an old program called midisoft
I still use for that stuff. Its time consuming but is handy for touch ups. Your bigger programs like Finale, Sibelius or Notion
are what pro composers use. Stuff like movie scores are all composed on these kind of programs and synced to the film.
Its not like the old days where you still have a full orchestra recording the music to a film. Some of your bigger budget films
still have that, but for the most part you have one guy who does it all with a musical program building all those musical
sequences to fit allong with the narration in the background. Little of it is real instruments, its mostly midi instruments and samples
all composed in a notation program and imported into a DAW program where the music is cut and pasted in to fit the narration.

I use Sonar Producer for simular stuff. You can even set up two monitors and have the movie on one screen and have your daw mixer on the other.
Then you can compose music to the video. I mainly use it for live band videos. I can go in and add music tracks and remix the live recordings.
I could add midi instruments too, but like I said, most of my work is with audio tracks. I have done some stuff 100% midi. Its fun but I enjoy writing
music I can play live with a band. Building tracks with multi midi instruments would require several keyboard players to perform live.

Since its Christmas, heres a midi tune I wrote 10 years ago.
It was just an experimental orchestrational piece played to a click track that
has kind of a dark historic Christmas movie sound track sound to it.
You can hear how all the tracks were built from separate midi voices.
I then exported it from the DAW program as an audio file for CD burning and
add it to my collection of Christmas music. I make a point of recording one
Christmas tune a year, some traditional and some original. Some wind up being pretty unique.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1682170/2002.mp3

[Kazinator]

Haha, this topic reminds me of: Broke Dad Makes Son Playstation 2 for Christmas