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Ive played two dumbles in my life. And seen only three... so they are very rare. And almost everyone of them is in the hands of serious pros who use them religiously.
Why?
WELLLLllllllll
The dumble to me is a hybrid fender design that is really a one trick pony. But if that pony is YOUR sound its killer! And the dumble in the hands of amatuers sounds awful. I think thats because the pros in the arenas set theirs up for a diff tone then we amatuers would. The dumbles ive played (two) had to be worked real hard to get THAT tone i aquint to "Running on Empty" Jackson Brown thing. They sound lame at moderate or low volumes. My stock Mark III tears them up at mid to low volumes and we all know that boogies dont sound all that great at low volumes themselves.
And as with anything expensive or rare, there are just not many made to show up in papers or at pawn shops. And at the price asked and the (cough) terms aggreed to before the contract is made i doubt there ever will be many of them. It would be the kiss of death for the Dumble amp to be mass produced.
But for my money the boogies are as good as the dumble. At least for non arena events...
Why?
WELLLLllllllll
The dumble to me is a hybrid fender design that is really a one trick pony. But if that pony is YOUR sound its killer! And the dumble in the hands of amatuers sounds awful. I think thats because the pros in the arenas set theirs up for a diff tone then we amatuers would. The dumbles ive played (two) had to be worked real hard to get THAT tone i aquint to "Running on Empty" Jackson Brown thing. They sound lame at moderate or low volumes. My stock Mark III tears them up at mid to low volumes and we all know that boogies dont sound all that great at low volumes themselves.
And as with anything expensive or rare, there are just not many made to show up in papers or at pawn shops. And at the price asked and the (cough) terms aggreed to before the contract is made i doubt there ever will be many of them. It would be the kiss of death for the Dumble amp to be mass produced.
But for my money the boogies are as good as the dumble. At least for non arena events...
For about $1300 all in you can have "Dumble" tone... Pick up a SF Bassman or a Traynor YBA1 and ship it off to Andy Fuchs for the ODS 50 mod. I have a modded Traynor and it is an amazing clean and high gain machine. Very responsive (read zero sag in the power supply) this amp kicks your ass until you build your chops up.
Andy has modeled his design on the Dumble circuit and nails it imho.
Mine is over on the right hand side of this photo. Very cool amp at an unbelievable price!
Andy has modeled his design on the Dumble circuit and nails it imho.
Mine is over on the right hand side of this photo. Very cool amp at an unbelievable price!
Originally posted by Shemp
For about $1300 all in you can have "Dumble" tone... Pick up a SF Bassman or a Traynor YBA1 and ship it off to Andy Fuchs for the ODS 50 mod. I have a modded Traynor and it is an amazing clean and high gain machine. Very responsive (read zero sag in the power supply) this amp kicks your ass until you build your chops up.
Andy has modeled his design on the Dumble circuit and nails it imho.
Mine is over on the right hand side of this photo. Very cool amp at an unbelievable price!
hmmmm,,,, IMHO,,, if you want to "copy" the Dumble tone,,, you oughtta just get the real thing, and show a little love to the guy who originally thought up that kind of sound to begin with... ...there are too many imitators and "me too" things out there,, and this world needs more support for the genuine stuff, the originators, innovators , whether it's gear, or players....
if you want ZERO sag,, play an old Ampeg V4/VT22 CLEAN....they've been around since the late 60's.....throw away the veil of gain that so many players hide behind, and the hocus pocus of effects..,get clean,, and lets really hear the players play... that's as good a way as I know of to expose the poseurs....
I would rather ride a one trick pony all night(as long as it's a GOOD one) than to rely on any gimmicks to "help make" me sound better.... so that's why I play the Tweed 5F6A Bassman, straight up.... it's indisputably tone to the bone,,, the rest is up to me...
:eek:
Originally posted by mvm
Well w/ 3,626 posts I figured you weren't a teen-20 something procrastinating
about practicing.
As I mentioned, I've got that amp too. I N.O.S.'d it w/ the best tubes from
Mullard GZ34 rectifier and ECC83 pre-amps (first stage gain is a 6072A
-12AY7- i.e. about 45% gain of a 12AX7 like the originals), matched set of Svetlana 6L6GC's and put six coats of Zinnser Bulleye Shellac (tinted) on it. The tweed texture's clearly there but the amp is sealed- basically the color of the lighter-colored horizontal threads in the grill cloth.
Also, I reversed the speaker leads so it "plays forward".
Can you describe or refer me to one of your posts, re; any particular customizations
you've done to your Bassman? You're clearly a fan also.
Mike modded the presence tone stack for me to make it "period correct" as manufactured, instead of the way the schematic drwas it.... also I had the input modded slightly, to yield a slightly brighter sound. I'm gonna have to ask Mike about that polarity thing you mentioned.... since mine isn't true to the '59 specs from end to end(output transformer is HD 8 ohm)
I'm using Jensen P10R(Italian) speakers in in, with a 8-ohm OP transformer. That way, I can hook up a single 15" open back cab to it when ever I want. I LIKE the sound of 15"s for guitar as a general rule.
The tubes are all NOS too, as you have found, sound much better than any recent manufacture. I use the TungSol 5881 power tubes, and either a 12ay7 or 12ax7 Mullard in V1(depends on my mood).... and RCA blackplate 12ax7 tube and Philips NOS tube in the other two slots. THe 5AR4 rectifier is a British made(Mullard) tube as well.
I've been wanting to try the extreme mod I mentioned earlier, going to 4x6V6 power tubes...... with the same Bassman tone circuits...... I also want to try that really low power rectifier tube,, to see what it sounds like,,,, it cuts the output on a Bassman by about 30%.......which can be a good thing for smaller gigs, or really lively rooms....
I guess I'm really hard core about trying to achieve a "period " correct tone with my setup. The Zephyr Blues Deluxe(3xP90) jumbo size archtop works well with this amp, and suits my style and presentation of Blues,R&B, Jump & Swing music well...
I am not a fast and flashy player by any means, but even non musicians notice my uniqueness in "style and tone", and mention "old school" comes to mind when the hear me play.. which is the greatest compliment to me as a player I could ever get....
now, Dapper Dan, if I could only get the courage to cut my hair, and sport a nice big pompador....
Originally posted by mvm
The whole '80's shred thing has always left me laughing -with it.
I'm not knocking it (i.e. laughing at it), I just never got into it
myself and therefore, consider it a realm within which I'm 100%
OK with being incompetent -like classical or flamenco.
It's such an amazing instrument- like the saying "there are many
roads to Mecca", approaches to the guitar are infinite. Additionally,
there's almost always SOMETHING about another guy's playing
that makes him fun to jam with and I try to always be sure to
leave other guys feeling that way about my playing.
In short, it sounds like you've developed a cool style to be comfortable
with. My thing lately (last few years) has been disciplining myself
to write things down and keep them organized (i.e. songs/ chord charts).
I'm gonna have to ask Mike about that polarity thing you mentioned....
Sure- check out pages 53-54 in "The Definitive Bassman" chapter of Gerald Weber's
A DESKTOP REFERENCE OF HIP VINTAGE GUITAR AMPS, it's all there.
http://www.elderly.com/books/items/386-1.htm
since mine isn't true to the '59 specs from end to end(output transformer is HD 8 ohm)
I'm using Jensen P10R(Italian) speakers in in, with a 8-ohm OP transformer. That way,
I can hook up a single 15" open back cab to it when ever I want. I LIKE the sound of
15"s for guitar as a general rule.
The other day, I tilted one back in a guitar store and raised my eyebrows at seeing
that Fender's evidently now selling them stock with Jensen P10R's. Mine came with Eminence 1028K's. I don't know the difference honestly, but I'd sooner have EXACT when it comes to buying a REISSUE. As to your 15" thing, I've never tried it, but it sounds like for you, the whole "first-take's a winner" thing's going on, vs. hammering away to get it "right" in your own mind. That's the thing I've found. Once you are completely into your tone and sound, "the muse" enters you and you wind up performing as though somebody else is just using your body. Once you're warmed up and that happens, it's the best. I think the same thing happens in about every sport where a guy "enters the zone". Santana now claims that's what the Dumble has done for him, vs. Mesa. I'll bet the guys at Mesa would like to take pliars and a blowtorch to Carlos these days. The interviews crack me up.
The tubes are all NOS too, as you have found, sound much better than any recent
manufacture. I use the TungSol 5881 power tubes, and either a 12ay7 or 12ax7
Mullard in V1(depends on my mood).... and RCA blackplate 12ax7 tube and Philips
NOS tube in the other two slots. THe 5AR4 rectifier is a British made(Mullard) tube as
well.
Holy shit. you done owns the HOLY GRAIL! TungSol 5881's must have been great
to find. Do you REALLY notice the difference vs. say, Svetlana 6L6GC's? If so,
can you describe it (at various volume settings)?
I've been wanting to try the extreme mod I mentioned earlier, going to 4x6V6 power
tubes...... with the same Bassman tone circuits...... I also want to try that really low
power rectifier tube,, to see what it sounds like,,,, it cuts the output on a Bassman by
about 30%.......which can be a good thing for smaller gigs, or really lively rooms....
When you do, please post it. I'm a little cornfused at four power output tubes w/ a Bassman. Also, one thing I happened to notice on other '59's-- they've got this secure-with-a-spring mechanism holding in the power tubes. Mine never had these.
Pissed me off. Does yours?
Thanks,
Marc
on the thought about the Eminence Alnico speakers vs the Jensen P10R reissues.....
mine originally came with the Eminence Alnicos(OEM for the new Fender Bassmans up until fairly recently)..the ones with the blue frames, and Alnico plug magnets... ..
I was trying to REDUCE the amount of bottom end the amp had with my guitar,, I WANTED it to be squawky in the mids... so the Jensens are a little closer to that kind of sound.... very similar in tone to the Eminence Blue frames that I had,, but thinner, less bassy, which makes the mids a little more pronounced....I might add that the Eminence speaker is actually a DB or two more sensitive than the Jensen, according to specs I've seen..
Mike said that with an old low power 15" Jensen in it,, I'd get a LOT of cone breakup,, even at lower volumes,, so I've got to put my old Jensen 15" in one of my single 15" open back cabs and just try it and see....it may be even MORE like what I have in mind...I really want that raunchy, squawky mid-rangy sound that was so prevalent in the earlier electrified blues recordings....
I saw a guy talking about a bassman he modded to accept four 6V6 power tubes,,, and made it a single ended class A amp,, that was putting out about 20-30 watts,,,, it sounds like a good idea for a tone stand point,, the 6V6 power tube was pretty popular "back in the day" of early amp designs,,, it sounds good,, and is pretty reliable, although, they don't deliver much output wattage....
the Bassman is kind of a powerful amp,, at 45 watts with the two 5881's.... so it's hard to really let it sing out with powertube OD, because it isusually too LOUD for many situations... ...
the TungSol 5881 tubes were expensive,($150 pair), but,, IMHO,, they are responsible for taking out all the harshness of the sound of the amp, compared to the Sovteks that I had in there.... , they are very warm, smooth, and never get harsh at all, even when I had EH preamp tubes in it...they seem to have more brightness and articulation than the Sovtecs too... ofcourse,, to me,, the Sovtek tubes are not the greatest sounding already,, but,, they were cheap, fairly consistent and reliable, and available at the time I needed them..
the different rectifier tube was an idea i read about here somewhere,, on another thread.. I've got to ask Mike about that as well,, and see which tube it is(IF it's true),,,,
here's one I was watching, to maybe have a spare pair, but,, I've not had good luck on E-Bay with getting REAL NOS tubes,, everyone says they are,, but most of them have been USED tubes,, so,, it's really risky biz... Mike's tubes are the real NOS...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item
I got mine from Mike at Clark Amplification, and I am really lucky that he is here in my town. He has been instrumental in helping me fine tune the amp to my exact style and ideas about tone....
He is a nice guy, and lives, eats and breathes Tweed era Fender amps....and now he's making a pretty mean Marshal repro as well...
:eek:
on the spring/holder tube thing.... the original Bassmans had those metal preamp tube covers,,but nothing on the power tubes,, just those funky halfmoon side spring clips that grip the base of the powertubes....
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