Backstage With the Band

[Blackbird 13]

Originally Posted by race81

All good points......venue is a private birthday party @ a very big lake. There are some very nice clubs in this area, so we were thinking of trying to connect with some of them while down there. There could possibly be more jobs come out of this gig. I know 3 hrs of a drive is not that far for some, but for me the P.A. specialist/roadie/drummer/vocalist...im dead tired after we get done. This would be our first job out of town that required an over night stay IMO. From my figures....and upping the band members pay by a whopping $25 each, it looks to be around $1200.......expenses are making up around half of the total. Heres how I broke it down....

fuel for 2 vehicles..........................$200
meals..(lunch/dinner/breakfast)........$180
motel..........................................$22 5
band...........................................$60 0
_____________________________________
total $1205

Based on that, assuming I wasn't extremely close friends with anyone from the party.. I'd quote them $1400 without accommodations, $1200 with. That gives you some room to negotiate if you think the buyer is "almost there", it justifies the extra hotel expense, and it's likely in line with quotes your party would get from an agency to book a cover band.

[New Trail]

How many members in the band? In other words, how many people are there to get paid? Decide how much money each member wants to make to take home from the gig, add expenses, maybe add a little extra $ in case of emergencies, and that's your quote. There's no good reason to drive 3 hours to play a gig on the cheap.

fuel for 2 vehicles..........................$200
meals..(lunch/dinner/breakfast)........$180
motel..........................................$22 5
pay for 5 musicians........................$1500 <<<< YOU decide this
Extra for Emergencies.....................$300
TOTAL.......................................$2405

[tim_7string]

Originally Posted by New Trail

How many members in the band? In other words, how many people are there to get paid? Decide how much money each member wants to make to take home from the gig, add expenses, maybe add a little extra $ in case of emergencies, and that's your quote. There's no good reason to drive 3 hours to play a gig on the cheap.

fuel for 2 vehicles..........................$200
meals..(lunch/dinner/breakfast)........$180
motel..........................................$22 5
pay for 5 musicians........................$1500 <<<< YOU decide this
Extra for Emergencies.....................$300
TOTAL.......................................$2405

He said in the first post that there were four of them. And I think $2405 is WAY too high for a one nighter at a private party. Unless the people running it are all highly-paid professionals, I think they are going to balk at that price.

$1200 seems more reasonable to me. I also like Blackbird 13's advice. Make sure they realize that it will cost a lot for accomodations and that you will need to have those in order to make the gig, where driving back right after the gig for three hours is not an option. Trust me, I've done that before and it really sucks.

[MartinC]

4 guys have to drive 6 hours , bring a pa, play the gig, then go to a motel, eat out at least two meals, buy gas, etc. Geez, if that's not worth at least 500.00 a man WTH? OTOH, if the band usually makes 600.00 a gig or less, your probably not going to get 2k or better. But you never know. Why do they want your band? The answer to that question is the answer to how much they will pay.

[TIMKEYS]

[QUOTE=Blackbird 13;47271520]C'mon man.. that's the kind of attitude that hinders musicians from looking at things like a business. Unless there is serious exposure (national television or a showcase for legit A&R reps), a personal reason (like sharing the stage with one of your musical influences, or doing a favor for a friend), or financial gain.. why take the gig at all? Why not just book something closer to home that DOES benefit your business?[/QUOT

There are lots of ways to build a business. I know I used to get a lot of shit from my fellow flight instructors because I was willing to fly cheap for some chief pilots that I knew in the beginning. They used the same logic. Most of them either flounded along as back of their car flight instructors or left the career. I was the guy that had a job flying a turbo prop. They were too busy pinching the penny to invest their time in their own career. I agree , there has to be a reason to cut some breaks on expenses. I just think that getting out and gigging in your area , and 3 hours is your area is more important than dingin a customer for a few burgers on the drive over there. My theory is one gig typically leads to another, so the more you play the further along you will be in establishing your act.

[New Trail]

Originally Posted by tim_7string

He said in the first post that there were four of them. And I think $2405 is WAY too high for a one nighter at a private party. Unless the people running it are all highly-paid professionals, I think they are going to balk at that price.

$1200 seems more reasonable to me. I also like Blackbird 13's advice. Make sure they realize that it will cost a lot for accomodations and that you will need to have those in order to make the gig, where driving back right after the gig for three hours is not an option. Trust me, I've done that before and it really sucks.

Sorry, I missed that they were a four piece. How much is your time worth to you? For a regular 4 hour gig $25 an hour? At a local gig an hour set up and an hour tear down makes that about $16 an hour! Add three hours drive each way (6 hours total) and you're down to $8.30/hr. How much is your time worth?

Originally Posted by MartinC

4 guys have to drive 6 hours , bring a pa, play the gig, then go to a motel, eat out at least two meals, buy gas, etc. Geez, if that's not worth at least 500.00 a man WTH? OTOH, if the band usually makes 600.00 a gig or less, your probably not going to get 2k or better. But you never know. Why do they want your band? The answer to that question is the answer to how much they will pay.

I think $500 each sounds about right, and take expenses out of that. It seems to me that someone who would want to book a band from that far away would expect a higher price. $2000-$2500 per night for a band who is three hours away is NOT out of line IMO.

[TIMKEYS]

Originally Posted by New Trail

Sorry, I missed that they were a four piece. How much is your time worth to you? For a regular 4 hour gig $25 an hour? At a local gig an hour set up and an hour tear down makes that about $16 an hour! Add three hours drive each way (6 hours total) and you're down to $8.30/hr. How much is your time worth?



I think $500 each sounds about right, and take expenses out of that. It seems to me that someone who would want to book a band from that far away would expect a higher price. $2000-$2500 per night for a band who is three hours away is NOT out of line IMO.

It really depends on the band. A 300 dollar band is still a three hundred dollar band even though they are 150 miles away from home.

[race81]

We are not a very old group. We started gigging out in feb, of 2012, after 4 months of rehearsals. But it seems we have pleased a few people and are getting word spread through different folks and recommendations. Normal gigs we charge $500 for clubs and bar gigs. Im not gonna price myself out of a gig. If these gigs were a couple a month deal, I could see a higher price, but we are not there yet............yet!

[tim_7string]

Originally Posted by MartinC

4 guys have to drive 6 hours , bring a pa, play the gig, then go to a motel, eat out at least two meals, buy gas, etc. Geez, if that's not worth at least 500.00 a man WTH? OTOH, if the band usually makes 600.00 a gig or less, your probably not going to get 2k or better. But you never know. Why do they want your band? The answer to that question is the answer to how much they will pay.

Originally Posted by New Trail

Sorry, I missed that they were a four piece. How much is your time worth to you? For a regular 4 hour gig $25 an hour? At a local gig an hour set up and an hour tear down makes that about $16 an hour! Add three hours drive each way (6 hours total) and you're down to $8.30/hr. How much is your time worth?...I think $500 each sounds about right, and take expenses out of that. It seems to me that someone who would want to book a band from that far away would expect a higher price. $2000-$2500 per night for a band who is three hours away is NOT out of line IMO.

I would love to charge $2000-2500/night for a private engagement. But more likely than not, if I were to quote that for my band, they would hear that price and move on. Even though we are pretty good, we are still asked if we can give people a discount. With the current public attitude that music has little to no value, we could probably quote $100/night and people would ask if we would take $80 instead.

Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

It really depends on the band. A 300 dollar band is still a three hundred dollar band even though they are 150 miles away from home.

Yep, very true.

Originally Posted by race81

We are not a very old group. We started gigging out in feb, of 2012, after 4 months of rehearsals. But it seems we have pleased a few people and are getting word spread through different folks and recommendations. Normal gigs we charge $500 for clubs and bar gigs. Im not gonna price myself out of a gig. If these gigs were a couple a month deal, I could see a higher price, but we are not there yet............yet!

There you go. We charge $500-600 for out-of-town gigs ourselves for bars and clubs, higher for private parties and weddings. We are still seen as a fairly new band ourselves (not even two years old). Even if I added a fourth member, I seriously doubt we would be able to get $2500 for one night somewhere, anywhere, for anybody. You have to know your market and your place in it.

[New Trail]

Originally Posted by tim_7string

...... With the current public attitude that music has little to no value, we could probably quote $100/night and people would ask if we would take $80 instead. .....

Well that's a sad situation. I wonder if those folks try to get the caterers, or the venue, or the liquor suppliers, or the florists, to give a discount?

[TIMKEYS]

Originally Posted by New Trail

Well that's a sad situation. I wonder if those folks try to get the caterers, or the venue, or the liquor suppliers, or the florists, to give a discount?

LOL I do ,, i negotiated a 10 percent discount for cash at the dentist just yesterday.

[sventvkg]

gigs more than an hour from home never made financial sense to me.

[TIMKEYS]

Originally Posted by sventvkg

gigs more than an hour from home never made financial sense to me.

We have been doing a few fly and play shows a year. they are always a trade off between adventure and money. the last one paid great. the one before that was more of an adventure for bar wages with all the expenses paid. When you play the same venue all the time on the same little hunk of sand, its fun to just go do somthing different. You just have to take em one at a time and decide as a band if you want to go do it.

[tlbonehead]

Originally Posted by sventvkg

gigs more than an hour from home never made financial sense to me.

around here, you wouldn't have many gigs if you set your max radius at 60 miles. Many time band members are that far apart.

[stratotastic]

Originally Posted by New Trail

Well that's a sad situation. I wonder if those folks try to get the caterers, or the venue, or the liquor suppliers, or the florists, to give a discount?

You bet your ass they do.

[Blackbird 13]

Originally Posted by sventvkg

gigs more than an hour from home never made financial sense to me.

That all depends. For me.. an overnight trip that will net me $300 or better after expenses.. well, that's worth it for a day's work/drive/sleep. Others might have a different perspective, or have the money enough that they'd rather have the time instead of the cash. TomAto, ToMAto I suppose.

[guitarguy19]

Originally Posted by Blackbird 13

or have the money enough that they'd rather have the time instead of the cash

It's not that "we have enough money"...who the hell can say that?

But your absolutely right it IS the fact that we'd rather make a little less money for a show that requires a little less work. Like I said before we've been asked to travel up to 5 hrs one-way for a gig. I quoted "around $2500-$3000" basically knowing full well we'd price ourselves out of it, and sure enough we didn't get the gig. Maybe I could've quoted $1000 and got it...but at that point our TIME is too valuable...it's not worth it. We didn't want the gig that badly. If they really wanted our band enough...they would've paid what we asked. Otherwise...tough shit.

Our furthest drive is about 1.25 hrs and we don't stay overnight. We make $1200. If we doubled the drive time, thereby we'd need to stay overnight, I wouldn't do it for much less than $2k....whatever you guys know what I mean...somewhere in that range. Sleeping away from my own house and my own bed and having to drive home in the morning after a shitty night's sleep in a hotel away from my wife and family...no thanks. To me those are all hours on the clock. If I'm doing that I'm BANKING or it just isn't worth the hassle.

So to chime in on the 'debate' that's sort of going on...$2500 for a 1-nighter away from home is NOT out of line at all. If it's overpriced for the market like it usually is in our case...that's fine. We just don't do the gig. But it's not out of line. You're putting in a lot of hours. Just my thoughts.

[StratGuy22]

Our normal rate is $1600. Our 1 hour away out of town rate is $2000 & 3 rooms minimum. The best we've done is $2300 & 5 rooms. We were about an hour away. A 3 hour trip would easily be $2500. Like others have said, any less and it's just not worth it.

[tim_7string]

Originally Posted by guitarguy19

It's not that "we have enough money"...who the hell can say that?

But your absolutely right it IS the fact that we'd rather make a little less money for a show that requires a little less work. Like I said before we've been asked to travel up to 5 hrs one-way for a gig. I quoted "around $2500-$3000" basically knowing full well we'd price ourselves out of it, and sure enough we didn't get the gig. Maybe I could've quoted $1000 and got it...but at that point our TIME is too valuable...it's not worth it. We didn't want the gig that badly. If they really wanted our band enough...they would've paid what we asked. Otherwise...tough shit.

Our furthest drive is about 1.25 hrs and we don't stay overnight. We make $1200. If we doubled the drive time, thereby we'd need to stay overnight, I wouldn't do it for much less than $2k....whatever you guys know what I mean...somewhere in that range. Sleeping away from my own house and my own bed and having to drive home in the morning after a shitty night's sleep in a hotel away from my wife and family...no thanks. To me those are all hours on the clock. If I'm doing that I'm BANKING or it just isn't worth the hassle.

So to chime in on the 'debate' that's sort of going on...$2500 for a 1-nighter away from home is NOT out of line at all. If it's overpriced for the market like it usually is in our case...that's fine. We just don't do the gig. But it's not out of line. You're putting in a lot of hours. Just my thoughts.

Ultimately, it all comes down to perception. There is a band around here that charges $1000/night. They play a lot of the same bars the other bands play (the ones that get paid $300-500/night), but they still get paid what they get paid. Why? They have built up the perception that they are 'a cut above' and are worth the money. And they get it. I don't know if they play a lot of private parties, but I'm sure they would charge closer to what you are describing if they did. They have great lighting, a decent website, good logo, fantastic musicians/singers, a more modern setlist and 10+ years with the same name (the lead guitarist/bandleader is the only original member left). All of that contributes to their value as a band.

But not all bands can simply say "pay me this" and they will get that, simply by asking. It's how the market (buyer) perceives your group. Because we are a three-piece, there is an instant stigma against us that we are not as good as a four or five-piece band. I've heard some of the four- and five-piece bands around here, and we are actually better than some of them. However, people only realize that AFTER we play. So, due to the availability of one of the members, we take a different approach. We live in the dive bar scene and stretch that money further as a trio rather than play every weekend as a four- or five-piece (with soundman), investing in a huge truck and trailer and $1000s in PA and lighting. If we did all that, sure, we could probably command higher pay but there is a lot more headache involved as well.

But anyway, you gotta stack as many cards in your favor as possible. You guys are doing that by adding keys on a few songs, changing your lighting, losing the music stand, dressing nicer, etc. These are all factors that add value to your band. race81's band would have to do the same in order to demand similar fees for his group.

[jimiv]

Originally Posted by race81

All good points......venue is a private birthday party @ a very big lake. There are some very nice clubs in this area, so we were thinking of trying to connect with some of them while down there. There could possibly be more jobs come out of this gig. I know 3 hrs of a drive is not that far for some, but for me the P.A. specialist/roadie/drummer/vocalist...im dead tired after we get done. This would be our first job out of town that required an over night stay IMO. From my figures....and upping the band members pay by a whopping $25 each, it looks to be around $1200.......expenses are making up around half of the total. Heres how I broke it down....

fuel for 2 vehicles..........................$200
meals..(lunch/dinner/breakfast)........$180
motel..........................................$22 5
band...........................................$60 0
_____________________________________
total $1205

You're not too too far off. I would x out meals except one on the way back (day two). Here was our last job and the quote where we played three hours north of here and stayed overnight. Granted, it was a wedding, but I wouldn't discount the price too much just because it is a party.

Gig Request – Gig ID

Client Name:

Client Type:
Bride/Groom
Email Address:

Phone Number:

Date Added to Gig Request:
Monday, December 05, 2011
Client's Notes:
It's going to be a music loving crowd. I'm the groom and this is the only part of the wedding I really care about (the band). Let's rock and roll!


Add a Note-to-Self

Event Date:
Saturday, August 11, 2012
Event Time:
7:30 PM
Duration:
2.5 hours
Services Needed:
Cover Band, Blues Band, Classic Rock Band
Event Type:
Wedding Reception
Venue:
Cambria Pines Lodge
Location:
Cambria, CA (157 miles from Thousand Oaks)
Approx # of Guests:
50-99

Your bid was sent on Tuesday, December 06, 2011 11:42 PM.
Your Bid:

Performance rate:
$1,495.00 for the time period requested
Travel/Lodging Requirements:
$360.00
Deposit:
$600.00 (Refundable Until 5/12/2012)
Balance:
$1,255.00 due on 8/11/2012 (Refundable Until 8/11/2012)
This bid is for:
5 performers
Breaks:
1 15-minute breaks
Your message:
Rock entertainment is our specialty and we really enjoy playing these types of events. We can cover one set, two sets or more if your requirements change from the original request. The sound systems that we travel with can handle any size room. Please let us know if you have any questions or special requests. Please see our current list of songs on our webpage at www.tkzband.com. We provide an excellent full sound that you cannot match with a 3 or even four piece group. We are also very good at adjusting our mix to address any concerns with volume. If there are particular artists you are requesting us to cover, please let us know. We are also fully insured and will provide proof of insurance upon request. Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns on our quote, or the band in general. We have recently added a new female singer who fronts the band with our other lead vocalist and she can handle hard rock to soft ballads. She is truly amazing and a seasoned performer. We will soon have new audio and video clips up on our website.
Bid expires:
Never
Booking Fee:
I will pay booking fee