Backstage With the Band

[SpaceNorman]

Originally Posted by jeff42

another thing we have asked ourselves and was mentioned in another similar thread awhile back is this: Becoming more of what a dance/party band normally is really only requires us to add a member and go with an electric guitar, our setlist is pretty much there already. But in doing that, does that destroy our uniqueness OR would it "advance" us to the next level?

Not sure.

In order for you to answer the questions you've posed (and ultimately, you and your bandmates are the only folks who CAN answer them) - you have to know what you want success to look like for your band.

Sure - adding players would likely open doors to playing bigger/better gigs. Bigger venues usually means more PA. As the soundman you spoke with told you ... his venue has certain expectations for the groups they hire ... and clearly, meeting those expectations mean giving up at least some of the autonomy and freedom you currently have.

Being the best damn accoustic three piece you know how to be may very well be all it takes for you to be happy. Having the ability to blow in, throw up a compact PA, play stuff you enjoy playing, with the autonomy to play it how you want to while making $$$ on a per man basis doesn't sound at all unappealing.

Adding additional members means more work maintaining band relationships, another person's scheduling constraints to deal with, more than likely, more gear to schlepp, etc.

In the end you guys need to decide what it is that will bring you satisfaction - and stay focused on that. If you simply chase "bigger and more" it a very good possibility that you'll catch "bigger and more" - which may ultimately be exactly what you don't want.

[wesg]

Maybe adding an electric guitar player is too obvious.....Add a Hammond and a Leslie!

Get your guitar player to play an electric that can sound like an acoustic, keep the set basically the same but add the odd electric solo on top of Hammond.

[jimiv]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

Then in the next breath, he explained that he'll never hire us. His reasons: We were too old and we were female fronted. His experience had been that female fronted acts didn't do well in his venue and was confident that his crowd doesn't respond well to a band of "50 somethings".

That's interesting to me because we are a female fronted band. I wonder why that would be a problem for a venue. Although we rarely play public venues any longer, I wonder why a "female front" would not be a "fit" in a club environment. Just curious.

[SpaceNorman]

Originally Posted by jimiv

That's interesting to me because we are a female fronted band. I wonder why that would be a problem for a venue. Although we rarely play public venues any longer, I wonder why a "female front" would not be a "fit" in a club environment. Just curious.

He commented that "in his experience" - a female front brought out the "catty-ness" of his young female patrons. He wanted young male fronted acts because he felt that his young female clientele liked them better - and that be keeping his female clientele happy - he was keeping everybody happy.

Personally, it sounded like bullshit to me then - just like it sounds like bullshit to me now. But, it's his room - so the game gets played by his rules and he's the judge.

[guido61]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

Personally, it sounded like bullshit to me then - just like it sounds like bullshit to me now.

Yeah, you never know. Could be a business thing, or a weird-quirky personal thing on his part. Like you said, he gets to call the shots.

Just yesterday I ran into a guitarist I know that I rehearsed with briefly while attempting to start up a band a few years ago. Asked him how the family was and he tells me he recently got divorced because he could no longer deal with his ultra-jealous wife. Then he tells me that the reason he abruptly pulled out of the band we tried to start up was because his wife simply could not stand the idea of him working in a band with a female vocalist. (I remember her treating me like I was the Elephant Man at the time--it was obvious she wasn't happy with him playing in the band, but I wasn't aware of the specific reason.) I tell him "gee, I guess it might have helped if I had told you the singer was a lesbian, but I didn't think it was relevant at the time...."

Probably wouldn't have mattered. Such jealousy defies logic. But maybe your clubowner's "experience" was that he got too friendly with a female vocalist once and the wife got pissed or...who knows? Could be anything.

[Kramerguy]

Originally Posted by guido61

Not every band is going to be the right band for every gig or every venue.

I hadn't really thought about this, but there was a couple of times last year that I was told "we only have small acoustic acts here" either because of floor space or "full bands are just too loud". I guess the knife cuts both ways?

[Remedy]

- play electric for the last half of the night


- Add a keyboard player

[Remedy]

Originally Posted by jeff42

another thing we have asked ourselves and was mentioned in another similar thread awhile back is this: Becoming more of what a dance/party band normally is really only requires us to add a member and go with an electric guitar, our setlist is pretty much there already. But in doing that, does that destroy our uniqueness OR would it "advance" us to the next level?

Not sure.

I think it adds to your uniquenss if you can be versatile and keep both the acoustic and add the electric when you need to 'level up'

[jimiv]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

He commented that "in his experience" - a female front brought out the "catty-ness" of his young female patrons. He wanted young male fronted acts because he felt that his young female clientele liked them better - and that be keeping his female clientele happy - he was keeping everybody happy.

Personally, it sounded like bullshit to me then - just like it sounds like bullshit to me now. But, it's his room - so the game gets played by his rules and he's the judge.

The last band I was in was male fronted and now this band has two females, lead signer and bass player. I put both of them up front with the lead guitar player and it seems to work better than with the male fronted band. (Plus they look alot better!). I usually closely watch what the audience is doing during the sets (god forbid I should be paying attention to what I'm playing, that would be too challenging! hahahaha)

Anyway, one of the many striking differences I've noticed (between male front and female front) is when there is a group of girls out dancing in a circle with each other (I know you guys have seen this many times before) mainly because the guys they came with would rather sit and drink. Anyway, its kind of like they have their own little exclusive dancing club going on and it is usually tough to bust in on it. No problem with our female front, when she dances out from the stage, she is immediately accepted, like no password needed. The energy jumps up and they are all dancing maniacs now. Brings the whole room up. With the male front, he could eventually gain acceptance and get them up a notch, but he always seemed to have to charm them a little bit first. In other words, he had to come up with the password first.

I have never noticed "catty-ness" but I'm sure it may be out there somewhere.

[jimiv]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

He commented that "in his experience" - a female front brought out the "catty-ness" of his young female patrons. He wanted young male fronted acts because he felt that his young female clientele liked them better - and that be keeping his female clientele happy - he was keeping everybody happy.

Personally, it sounded like bullshit to me then - just like it sounds like bullshit to me now. But, it's his room - so the game gets played by his rules and he's the judge.

The last band I was in was male fronted and now this band has two females, lead signer and bass player. I put both of them up front with the lead guitar player and it seems to work better than with the male fronted band. (Plus they look alot better!). I usually closely watch what the audience is doing during the sets (god forbid I should be paying attention to what I'm playing, that would be too challenging! hahahaha)

Anyway, one of the many striking differences I've noticed (between male front and female front) is when there is a group of girls out dancing in a circle with each other (I know you guys have seen this many times before) mainly because the guys they came with would rather sit and drink. Anyway, its kind of like they have their own little exclusive dancing club going on and it is usually tough to bust in on it. No problem with our female front, when she dances out from the stage, she is immediately accepted, like no password needed. The energy jumps up and they are all dancing maniacs now. Brings the whole room up. With the male front, he could eventually gain acceptance and get them up a notch, but he always seemed to have to charm them a little bit first. In other words, he had to come up with the password first.

I have never noticed "catty-ness" but I'm sure it may be out there somewhere.

[jeff42]

Originally Posted by Kramerguy

I hadn't really thought about this, but there was a couple of times last year that I was told "we only have small acoustic acts here" either because of floor space or "full bands are just too loud". I guess the knife cuts both ways?

anywhere good we should look into?

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

Having the ability to blow in, throw up a compact PA, play stuff you enjoy playing, with the autonomy to play it how you want to while making $$$ on a per man basis doesn't sound at all unappealing.

This is another thing... we LIKE being able to show up and in 20 minutes be ready to go.

Originally Posted by wesg

Maybe adding an electric guitar player is too obvious.....Add a Hammond and a Leslie!
Get your guitar player to play an electric that can sound like an acoustic, keep the set basically the same but add the odd electric solo on top of Hammond.

If we were to add a player it would be a keyboard player with hopefully some guitar & vocal ability.

[wheresgrant3]

Originally Posted by Kramerguy

I hadn't really thought about this, but there was a couple of times last year that I was told "we only have small acoustic acts here" either because of floor space or "full bands are just too loud". I guess the knife cuts both ways?

I can think of a dozen places that are willing to accommodate smaller bands. Our ex drummer is in one... a 4 piece stripped down acoustic band (singer, guitarist, bassist, drummer) that play alot of 7-11pm shows, and smaller venues. There are places that want music but have no business bringing in big rock bands.

[MartinC]

I like OH as well. I have worked in "a" list clubs as a trio before. Packed clubs with just three guys sitting in chairs-no bass, no drums, no vocals. They just weren't clubs looking for top 40 dance bands. We "fit" in those rooms because we helped represent what the management was trying to present.

If that was possible for us, OH, with good vocals and known tunes, will clearly have plenty of great opportunities. There's no doubt that some bookers are going to feel that a trio isn't enough firepower. There are also people who won't hire a group without a female lead or even two, or without keyboards, or without a facebook page, etc. IOW, there are all kinds of people with strange ideas about what is suitable entertainment for their venue.

It is true in my case, that when we added a 4th member we ended up doing some bigger venues. I think it had more to do with what the 4th guy added musically than the fact that we had an extra body on the stage.

Bottom line, to me at least, it's not the number of people in the band, it's the entertainment value. It seems so obvious but clearly it doesn't always work that way.

[Potts]

Apparently I'm fortunate to be in such a great place for music. Nobody gives a shit...you're either good and you can draw, or you're not. If you're no good and can't draw, you don't play the club.

As far as Guido attempting to be right right regarding my friend's band... No, the band played electric shows because they could. Its the same reasons it's not uncommon for a band here to go out and pull off an entire album side because they feel like it- not because they needed to. Maybe we're more laid back than in other parts of the country.

[tim_7string]

Originally Posted by jeff42

anywhere good we should look into?



This is another thing... we LIKE being able to show up and in 20 minutes be ready to go.



If we were to add a player it would be a keyboard player with hopefully some guitar & vocal ability.

As a guy in a trio myself, I face similar prejudice. I don't bother to go for the A rooms because I know those clubs have certain requirements, one of which includes being signed with a specific booking agency out of Fargo. As I am more of a DIY kind of guy, I don't really care to go that route and since I don't play the game, I don't get to be involved with that environment.

I think the other guys are right when it comes to draw. Maybe you will be able to pack them in wherever you play, but at this point, it would be a significant risk for an "A venue" to take you on due to your unique approach. Sad to say but most clubs like to stick with what they know (what has been successful).

[guido61]

Originally Posted by Potts

Apparently I'm fortunate to be in such a great place for music. Nobody gives a shit...you're either good and you can draw, or you're not.

No offense, but I really kinda think that's not unique to where you live. If you draw, you draw and get work. That's pretty universal. It's not like the OP is promising a 500 person crowd and getting turned down anyway simply because the band is acoustic. It's because the clubowner is afraid an acoustic act WON'T draw or hold a crowd and until the OP can prove otherwise, the owner MAY be correct.

As far as Guido attempting to be right right regarding my friend's band... No, the band played electric shows because they could.

Yeah, I got that. But unless I read you wrong you said it was this simply-because-they-could decision to go electric that led to their being able to book bigger rooms. Not that they were an acoustic act that drew so well that they got into the bigger rooms as an acoustic act.

So whether they did it simply as a business decision or simply for the fun of it, the bottom line is that it was a decision that NEEDED to be made to get into the bigger rooms. Right?

In other words, they made the right BUSINESS decision, but just fell into it by dumb luck rather than by means of having a smart business plan. Cool story, I guess, but kinda irrelevant to the OP UNLESS you're suggesting he should go electric.

[IsildursBane]

Ok, here's my take on what the OP can (potentially) to do help get himself into the A rooms w/o changing the format or style of his band:

Tighten up the rhythms.

I've seen other bands do this format and as far as I can remember, they've all had a pretty funky vibe, which is what it seems like you're trying to go for, too, at least to a degree. The problem is that in order to have a funky vibe, you need a tight rhythm section, and that's even more important if there's only 3 of you, because they're no filler to distract from it. Unfortunately, you guys just aren't that tight. You're not embarrassingly bad or anything, and the bass playing is completely inaudible where I'm listening now (so I can't judge it), but at least the drumming is just... meh.

Second would be to work on the vocals. Again, not terrible, but a little more ..meh.. than what I'd expect in an A-level club. This goes for pitch, power, tone, syncopation, etc. It's also another thing that you could probably skate by on if you had more people in the group, but can't hide, because you don't.

Personally, I don't think the promo video with the black background makes you look good. It's boring and the sounds are weak. I'd rather see a good video from a gig that has some energy. Of the videos I saw on your web site, I thought the one with the drummer on an actual kit had the most energy.

-Dan.

[mstreck]

Originally Posted by jeff42

another thing we have asked ourselves and was mentioned in another similar thread awhile back is this: Becoming more of what a dance/party band normally is really only requires us to add a member and go with an electric guitar, our setlist is pretty much there already. But in doing that, does that destroy our uniqueness OR would it "advance" us to the next level?

Not sure.

Jeff, why not have two different forms of the band? The current one to play the clubs that you are playing now and the new (larger/electric) one to play the clubs that you want to play?

[SpaceNorman]

Originally Posted by jimiv

The last band I was in was male fronted and now this band has two females, lead signer and bass player. I put both of them up front with the lead guitar player and it seems to work better than with the male fronted band. (Plus they look alot better!). I usually closely watch what the audience is doing during the sets (god forbid I should be paying attention to what I'm playing, that would be too challenging! hahahaha)

Anyway, one of the many striking differences I've noticed (between male front and female front) is when there is a group of girls out dancing in a circle with each other (I know you guys have seen this many times before) mainly because the guys they came with would rather sit and drink. Anyway, its kind of like they have their own little exclusive dancing club going on and it is usually tough to bust in on it. No problem with our female front, when she dances out from the stage, she is immediately accepted, like no password needed. The energy jumps up and they are all dancing maniacs now. Brings the whole room up. With the male front, he could eventually gain acceptance and get them up a notch, but he always seemed to have to charm them a little bit first. In other words, he had to come up with the password first.

I have never noticed "catty-ness" but I'm sure it may be out there somewhere.

My experience with female fronted bands has been very close to yours. The female lead vocalists that I've worked with (and I've worked with several over the years) had done a great job of relating to the females in the audience. Their willingness to step off stage and join the "dance circle" has always been a good thing. The men in the audience have always been happy to watch the female front working it on stage ... and happy to watch the "dance circle" if that's the way the night happened to go.

Like I said - it sounded like bullshit when the club owner first explained his sentiments - and still sounds like bullshit. The fact remains however, that as far as he was concerned - a female fronted act wasn't a good fit for his vision for his venue - and right, wrong or indifferent, that was all that matters.

[bassred]

I'm going to be honest. I am not at all shooting for hurt feelings. This is why we have forums, to give and get feedback, isn't it?

I dig the idea. White guys playing R&B, dance and rap songs is cheeky...almost daring (if it weren't for that damned Maroon 5)... I think that if I were at a bar/club and you were playing, I wouldn't stay very long. It's not just the format...

There is no 'look' and I NOW how much people hate being told that appearance is important, so no one jump my shit, but there is no consistency - is it casual T's? Button-ups? Sport-fabric Polo's you get from your day job? the three together don't really tell me who you are.

There is little-to-no stage presence beyond being presently on a stage... I sing backups (and sang lead on 85% of the material in my last band) and find plenty of time to step back away from the mic and rock out. It is also important to note that I understand everyone has a different comfort level - this is just my opinion, my 2 cents, I'm just sayin....

The vocals are OK. If you are dressed like you just left your pizza delivery job and standing in one spot all night, you are going to have to blow me away. One or two of these together can be defeated by doing one or two of these well (at the right time).

I agree that tightening it up in general would be good, maybe invest in better monitors or something that can help with the vocals (sounds like the bass player has to practically scream, and is therefore less pleasing to the ear).

Seriously just some food for thought. I'd enjoy a beer. I'd enjoy the band for the duration of said beer and post something on Facebook about the fun vibe of doing 'Smooth Criminal' with an acoustic and no synths, and then find out where other friends were drinking that night.