Backstage With the Band

[wheresgrant3]

Originally Posted by Potts

Apparently I'm in the minority with my opinion but that's ok.

We have a band around here that is "similar" to you guys and they had the same issue for awhile until they started doing both acoustic and electric shows. They doubled their popularity (maybe not doubled but you know what I mean). I'm not saying that's what you should do but they were great either way and people started to realize that. I don't think that club owners care about perception-- they care about asses in the seats and booze sales. At least that's the way it is here.

Put it this way...I have never heard ANYONE say, "They packed the place and we sold a ton of booze but I'm not sure we'll have them back because they're band is too small."

Well again... the only thing that will break that perception is draw. About 15 years ago the red hot band in my area was a trio. Two dynamic singers guitarists and a drummer. Of course the material at the time was post grunge and 90's alternative... easy pickings for any band heavy on vocals and less on theatrics. They had a wicked following and really laid the ground work for us to be able to use 'draw' to negotiate pay with club owners. 15 years ago bars and audiences would have balked at a band my size (we're up to 9 members including crew). These days we're large by design... I've never believed bigger is better.... but sometimes it can be perceived as 'bolder'.

In every case draw is the determing factor. Small band, big draw= bigger opportunities and pay. Big band+ small draw= death.

[SpaceNorman]

Originally Posted by guido61

Actually, I think you're saying the same thing that everyone else is: that the reality is that the best way for them to move forward might be to change the type of band they are.

Is that really what everyone is saying? Having watched the videos and followed OH progress via Jeff's postings - it seems to me that OH has a pretty good understanding of who and what they are. If I'm correct in my understanding - they're making steady progress as the band that they are. They simply run into one venue / decision maker who feels they're not right for a particular venue.

There's no denying that being rejected sucks and virtually always gives one reason to pause and assess their situation. However, it's not automatically grounds to change who you are and/or what you're trying to become.

[SpaceNorman]

Originally Posted by guido61

Actually, I think you're saying the same thing that everyone else is: that the reality is that the best way for them to move forward might be to change the type of band they are.

Is that really what everyone is saying? Having watched the videos and followed OH progress via Jeff's postings - it seems to me that OH has a pretty good understanding of who and what they are. If I'm correct in my understanding - they're making steady progress as the band that they are. They simply run into one venue / decision maker who feels they're not right for a particular venue.

There's no denying that being rejected sucks and virtually always gives one reason to pause and assess their situation. However, it's not automatically grounds to change who you are and/or what you're trying to become.

[guido61]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

Is that really what everyone is saying?

Maybe not. My reading was that most/all of the suggestions were either to change up the format of the band or to downsize their expectations. But I might have missed something.

The reality though is that it really IS all about "draw". Either they already have the draw to compete with the 'big' bands---in which case then it's more about a matter of simply finding a bigger venue willing to give them a shot and then proving they CAN draw, or it's about reassessing what they might need to do in order to be able to have that sort of draw.

It might be something as simple as another few months on the same circuit and building their following further before trying to move ahead.

[guido61]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

Is that really what everyone is saying?

Maybe not. My reading was that most/all of the suggestions were either to change up the format of the band or to downsize their expectations. But I might have missed something.

The reality though is that it really IS all about "draw". Either they already have the draw to compete with the 'big' bands---in which case then it's more about a matter of simply finding a bigger venue willing to give them a shot and then proving they CAN draw, or it's about reassessing what they might need to do in order to be able to have that sort of draw.

It might be something as simple as another few months on the same circuit and building their following further before trying to move ahead.

[Potts]

Originally Posted by guido61

Why did this band start doing both acoustic and electric shows unless it was to change the perception people had of them?

Boredom and fun.

Just wondering. Do you ever do anything with your band for that reason instead of looking at things from a business perspective?

[Potts]

Originally Posted by guido61

Why did this band start doing both acoustic and electric shows unless it was to change the perception people had of them?

Boredom and fun.

Just wondering. Do you ever do anything with your band for that reason instead of looking at things from a business perspective?

[Potts]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

There's no denying that being rejected sucks and virtually always gives one reason to pause and assess their situation. However, it's not automatically grounds to change who you are and/or what you're trying to become.

Great point!

[Potts]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

There's no denying that being rejected sucks and virtually always gives one reason to pause and assess their situation. However, it's not automatically grounds to change who you are and/or what you're trying to become.

Great point!

[wheresgrant3]

Originally Posted by Potts

Boredom and fun.

Just wondering. Do you ever do anything with your band for that reason instead of looking at things from a business perspective?

No... but maybe that's because the business enables us to have fun.

[wheresgrant3]

Originally Posted by Potts

Boredom and fun.

Just wondering. Do you ever do anything with your band for that reason instead of looking at things from a business perspective?

No... but maybe that's because the business enables us to have fun.

[race81]

We have venues have concerns as a 4 piece with a female...........not alone a 3 piece. Id talk with em again, and maybe see if some of your loyals would request you guys there. If they see profit to be made by your loyal followers, they may give you a try as a three piece.

[race81]

We have venues have concerns as a 4 piece with a female...........not alone a 3 piece. Id talk with em again, and maybe see if some of your loyals would request you guys there. If they see profit to be made by your loyal followers, they may give you a try as a three piece.

[jeff42]

Thank you everyone for the praise on this project as well as the suggestions/ comments about going forward. Like always this forum is FILLED with awesomeness and great info. All you guys are a great help!

We will be hitting 2 years in May and we are chugging along nicely increasing pay and draw. We promote the hell out of this band and do everything we can to be the FUN band in town! (so far, so good)

Every mistake I (and we) made during the 10 years with There & Back Again has not been repeated with Ostrich Hat. Again, so far....

The band has morphed since our 1st gig and who knows? It may change again. I am not counting anything out. We do plan to have a meeting to brainstorm and toss around ideas. No idea will be acted on or dismissed right away no matter how smart or stupid it sounds. Don't worry I will run it by the forum too!

It the past we have toyed with several ideas including going "Electric Ostrich" for the bigger gigs and/or adding another member who plays keys/guitar and sings- again for the bigger gigs.

We have looked at people we have worked with before in other bands including a guy who is a part time member of a VERY popular regional acoustic group that expressed interest. Adding another member that can play what needs to be played would get our bassist out front more- at least some of the time.

It may be only for certain gigs - who knows? Lots of things need to be taken into account and money is one of them.

[jeff42]

Thank you everyone for the praise on this project as well as the suggestions/ comments about going forward. Like always this forum is FILLED with awesomeness and great info. All you guys are a great help!

We will be hitting 2 years in May and we are chugging along nicely increasing pay and draw. We promote the hell out of this band and do everything we can to be the FUN band in town! (so far, so good)

Every mistake I (and we) made during the 10 years with There & Back Again has not been repeated with Ostrich Hat. Again, so far....

The band has morphed since our 1st gig and who knows? It may change again. I am not counting anything out. We do plan to have a meeting to brainstorm and toss around ideas. No idea will be acted on or dismissed right away no matter how smart or stupid it sounds. Don't worry I will run it by the forum too!

It the past we have toyed with several ideas including going "Electric Ostrich" for the bigger gigs and/or adding another member who plays keys/guitar and sings- again for the bigger gigs.

We have looked at people we have worked with before in other bands including a guy who is a part time member of a VERY popular regional acoustic group that expressed interest. Adding another member that can play what needs to be played would get our bassist out front more- at least some of the time.

It may be only for certain gigs - who knows? Lots of things need to be taken into account and money is one of them.

[guido61]

Originally Posted by Potts

Boredom and fun.

So it was just a happy coincidence then that what was needed to be done from a business perspective was something they just fell into doing.

That's great, but it still apparantly needed to be done--whatever the motivation--if they were to move ahead.

Just wondering. Do you ever do anything with your band for that reason instead of looking at things from a business perspective?

No, but the thing is that it's all tied together. What's fun and exciting for us is to try something new and have it result in the crowd really loving it and/or it being good for business. (The former almost always leads to the latter.)

Maybe it's a form of being jaded and of having done all this for so long, but it just simply does NOTHING for me to spend a great deal of time working on something I think is going to be fun and exciting only to have it be met with *crickets*. I find such things to be in no-way 'fun', nor do they relieve any amount of boredom I might be feeling.

The other side of that is I've yet to be bored or not have fun with this band, so there's been no need to look for stuff to do just for those reasons. When it's no longer fun to do this, I'll probably just leave the band and start doing something else with my spare time. It's way too much work to do this if it's not fun.

[guido61]

Originally Posted by Potts

Boredom and fun.

So it was just a happy coincidence then that what was needed to be done from a business perspective was something they just fell into doing.

That's great, but it still apparantly needed to be done--whatever the motivation--if they were to move ahead.

Just wondering. Do you ever do anything with your band for that reason instead of looking at things from a business perspective?

No, but the thing is that it's all tied together. What's fun and exciting for us is to try something new and have it result in the crowd really loving it and/or it being good for business. (The former almost always leads to the latter.)

Maybe it's a form of being jaded and of having done all this for so long, but it just simply does NOTHING for me to spend a great deal of time working on something I think is going to be fun and exciting only to have it be met with *crickets*. I find such things to be in no-way 'fun', nor do they relieve any amount of boredom I might be feeling.

The other side of that is I've yet to be bored or not have fun with this band, so there's been no need to look for stuff to do just for those reasons. When it's no longer fun to do this, I'll probably just leave the band and start doing something else with my spare time. It's way too much work to do this if it's not fun.

[jeff42]

another thing we have asked ourselves and was mentioned in another similar thread awhile back is this: Becoming more of what a dance/party band normally is really only requires us to add a member and go with an electric guitar, our setlist is pretty much there already. But in doing that, does that destroy our uniqueness OR would it "advance" us to the next level?

Not sure.

[jeff42]

another thing we have asked ourselves and was mentioned in another similar thread awhile back is this: Becoming more of what a dance/party band normally is really only requires us to add a member and go with an electric guitar, our setlist is pretty much there already. But in doing that, does that destroy our uniqueness OR would it "advance" us to the next level?

Not sure.

[n9ne]

I don't have much to add over and above what others have already mentioned.

I'm guessing that most or all A-list clubs have built their reputation using a reasonably specific musical format. Whether it's rock, country, dance, electronic, heavy metal, whatever......their customers go there expecting a certain type of music. And being pretty well established, they're probably not going to vary too far from that format.

And sad to say, there probably aren't many club formats where an acoustic-oriented pop/rock/dance trio would fit the bill. (Unless they have "Acoustic Wednesdays", or something like that...in which case OH would probably be perfect).

Most A-list clubs try to promote a loud, energetic atmosphere. Unfortunately, when people hear the phrase "acoustic-oriented", the words "loud" and "energetic" probably don't apply. I wouldn't call it a stigma, per se....it's more of an apples-and-oranges kind of thing.

There's no question that OH could be very successful and stay very busy with your current format.....and it's a great format.

But at the same time, there are a number of clubs where that format may not be a good fit.....and if you're looking to get a foot in the door at those clubs, you'll need to adapt your format to something a bit more in line with what they typically offer.

(This is not to say that you'll always have to conform to their standards. Once you've established yourself at a club, you could starting mixing in elements of both formats....like maybe doing your entire first set on acoustics, or whatever.)