Backstage With the Band

[jeff42]

Figured I would post this for discussion... not just for FB about my band but for discussion in general if this ever happened to you.

I have been told about a month ago by the house sound man of an A list club in my region that we will not be hired because:

1. we are a trio
2. We are acoustic based.

Now before he mentioned this he applauded our energy, our setlist, our crowd/ crowd interaction and pretty much everything about our show. (we did NOT go fishing for these complements)

This comment combined with another similar comment by a successful veteran musician about our quirky set up has me thinking- have we already reached the "top" with this little 3 piece? We are doing well and our schedule is filled with decent paying (for us), decent smaller bars/clubs for the next 5 months but I wonder...

Are these "bigger" clubs out of reach because of the unique spin we put on the trio formula?

I will have a chance to talk to Mr. soundman again, and he does have pull with who gets hired at this club. Should I tell him we'll go Electric and add a 4th guy just for those shows?

We have done the electric thing a few times last year and either we were told that no one noticed the difference or no one cared (LOL)

For those of you who are not familiar with what Ostrich Hat does here is our promo vid and a recent live montage

[wheresgrant3]

Jeff... in so many ways I really dig your new project. It's lean and mean and fresh! Your previous band sounded good it was hard to really sell it as a an act that could motivate younger audiences and I think over time you were feeling that (lost opportunities/age discrimination). OH sounds terrific, has a snappy presentation to the music. However that being said it's still and forever will be (in it's current format) a trio. I don't know a single trio playing an A-list club in my market... and ones that have had a dynamic lead singer/frontman/ guitarist that made you completely forget he was playing guitar (and their sound was as stripped down as a Ramones tribute). The reality is the club with see your act as small... and probably the audience. Most A-list clubs want the big 'show'!

We've said it here before there is the difference of perception when it comes to bands. A 3 piece band in any market has an uphill challenge in a larger capacity room. A 3-piece band without an identifiable front man and is playing unplugged is not really going to be considered a 'big' act unless you have a following breaking down doors to prove it. Even you described your band as a little 3 piece. I think most definately you will need a forth to break into larger clubs... and for the A-lists some recognizable frontman. Be it your existing bass player (who's young and has a good voice) or someone new. In either case someone needs to be front and center and the focal point. Else the big clubs will probably pass.

[wheresgrant3]

Jeff... in so many ways I really dig your new project. It's lean and mean and fresh! Your previous band sounded good it was hard to really sell it as a an act that could motivate younger audiences and I think over time you were feeling that (lost opportunities/age discrimination). OH sounds terrific, has a snappy presentation to the music. However that being said it's still and forever will be (in it's current format) a trio. I don't know a single trio playing an A-list club in my market... and ones that have had a dynamic lead singer/frontman/ guitarist that made you completely forget he was playing guitar (and their sound was as stripped down as a Ramones tribute). The reality is the club with see your act as small... and probably the audience. Most A-list clubs want the big 'show'!

We've said it here before there is the difference of perception when it comes to bands. A 3 piece band in any market has an uphill challenge in a larger capacity room. A 3-piece band without an identifiable front man and is playing unplugged is not really going to be considered a 'big' act unless you have a following breaking down doors to prove it. Even you described your band as a little 3 piece. I think most definately you will need a forth to break into larger clubs... and for the A-lists some recognizable frontman. Be it your existing bass player (who's young and has a good voice) or someone new. In either case someone needs to be front and center and the focal point. Else the big clubs will probably pass.

[guido61]

What Grant says is largely true in my experience as well. Perception is reality in this business and nobody really breaks down certain barriers unless they can do it with a sledgehammer. A clubowner gets a certain vision in his mind of what any band in his venue is supposed to look or sound like and it gets really tough to get past that. Unless and until you can prove that you can bring/hold a crowd in the same numbers that the 'big' bands can in such a venue, you'll probably never convince anyone it can be done.

Having a front man would probably be huge. Any thoughts on moving the bass player out front and adding another bass player? Even if it's just for the larger gigs?

[guido61]

What Grant says is largely true in my experience as well. Perception is reality in this business and nobody really breaks down certain barriers unless they can do it with a sledgehammer. A clubowner gets a certain vision in his mind of what any band in his venue is supposed to look or sound like and it gets really tough to get past that. Unless and until you can prove that you can bring/hold a crowd in the same numbers that the 'big' bands can in such a venue, you'll probably never convince anyone it can be done.

Having a front man would probably be huge. Any thoughts on moving the bass player out front and adding another bass player? Even if it's just for the larger gigs?

[Kramerguy]

Unfortunately I agree with WG. I don't like that things are that way, but they are.

[Kramerguy]

Unfortunately I agree with WG. I don't like that things are that way, but they are.

[FitchFY]

Originally Posted by jeff42

Are these "bigger" clubs out of reach because of the unique spin we put on the trio formula?

Hey Jeff, happy New Year!

I dig this post, and I'm tempted to respond with your above question with a simple "yes."

You know, like Grant, I've got mad respect for you, your projects, and your opinion, and as I started working out an acoustic duo a little while back, I wondered where this type of band would peak, and as a bar/ club band, it's not super-high up there.

There's that opinion of non-electric projects that they just won't "oomph" the way a full-scale band will. We all know that Tom Petty or Bob Dylan could go out on an acoustic only tour and sell out big venues, but that's Petty and Dylan, not a cover band.

So I think OH will eventually peak out at certain venues, but I'd think you guys could look into events for some better money. Corporate events, private parties, etc... just a thought!

[FitchFY]

Originally Posted by jeff42

Are these "bigger" clubs out of reach because of the unique spin we put on the trio formula?

Hey Jeff, happy New Year!

I dig this post, and I'm tempted to respond with your above question with a simple "yes."

You know, like Grant, I've got mad respect for you, your projects, and your opinion, and as I started working out an acoustic duo a little while back, I wondered where this type of band would peak, and as a bar/ club band, it's not super-high up there.

There's that opinion of non-electric projects that they just won't "oomph" the way a full-scale band will. We all know that Tom Petty or Bob Dylan could go out on an acoustic only tour and sell out big venues, but that's Petty and Dylan, not a cover band.

So I think OH will eventually peak out at certain venues, but I'd think you guys could look into events for some better money. Corporate events, private parties, etc... just a thought!

[SpaceNorman]

I've received similar feedback when trying to book work at one of the more upscale clubs in my area. I made a mid-week cold call to the club - which happens to be located in the city I live. I introduced myself - and was pleasantly surprised when the club owner said that he recognized me and had actually been out to see us at another bar a couple of weeks prior on the recommendation of one of his waitstaff.

The club owner was positive and complimentary - he liked the show, liked the setlist, etc. Then in the next breath, he explained that he'll never hire us. His reasons: We were too old and we were female fronted. His experience had been that female fronted acts didn't do well in his venue and was confident that his crowd doesn't respond well to a band of "50 somethings".

I wouldn't beat myself up over this rejection. The reality is that every band runs into gigs they simply can't land because the decision maker feels they're not the right fit for their venue.

All you can do in a situation like this to be as professional as possible (i.e., don't display any emotion that could be construed as indignation or butthurt), put as positive a spin on it as you can (...yes, we've heard that before at "______" - but managed to book a gig there when they had a band cancel, proved that we could win over their crowd - and are now in their regualr rotation).

Then stop back a couple of months from now ... the reality is that in this game - things change. I can't count the number of places I placed six months after being told we'd never get in the door.

This is a weird biz we're in - you gotta have a thick skin and be unabashed in your belief in the product you're selling.

[SpaceNorman]

I've received similar feedback when trying to book work at one of the more upscale clubs in my area. I made a mid-week cold call to the club - which happens to be located in the city I live. I introduced myself - and was pleasantly surprised when the club owner said that he recognized me and had actually been out to see us at another bar a couple of weeks prior on the recommendation of one of his waitstaff.

The club owner was positive and complimentary - he liked the show, liked the setlist, etc. Then in the next breath, he explained that he'll never hire us. His reasons: We were too old and we were female fronted. His experience had been that female fronted acts didn't do well in his venue and was confident that his crowd doesn't respond well to a band of "50 somethings".

I wouldn't beat myself up over this rejection. The reality is that every band runs into gigs they simply can't land because the decision maker feels they're not the right fit for their venue.

All you can do in a situation like this to be as professional as possible (i.e., don't display any emotion that could be construed as indignation or butthurt), put as positive a spin on it as you can (...yes, we've heard that before at "______" - but managed to book a gig there when they had a band cancel, proved that we could win over their crowd - and are now in their regualr rotation).

Then stop back a couple of months from now ... the reality is that in this game - things change. I can't count the number of places I placed six months after being told we'd never get in the door.

This is a weird biz we're in - you gotta have a thick skin and be unabashed in your belief in the product you're selling.

[Potts]

Apparently I'm in the minority with my opinion but that's ok.

We have a band around here that is "similar" to you guys and they had the same issue for awhile until they started doing both acoustic and electric shows. They doubled their popularity (maybe not doubled but you know what I mean). I'm not saying that's what you should do but they were great either way and people started to realize that. I don't think that club owners care about perception-- they care about asses in the seats and booze sales. At least that's the way it is here.

Put it this way...I have never heard ANYONE say, "They packed the place and we sold a ton of booze but I'm not sure we'll have them back because they're band is too small."

[Potts]

Apparently I'm in the minority with my opinion but that's ok.

We have a band around here that is "similar" to you guys and they had the same issue for awhile until they started doing both acoustic and electric shows. They doubled their popularity (maybe not doubled but you know what I mean). I'm not saying that's what you should do but they were great either way and people started to realize that. I don't think that club owners care about perception-- they care about asses in the seats and booze sales. At least that's the way it is here.

Put it this way...I have never heard ANYONE say, "They packed the place and we sold a ton of booze but I'm not sure we'll have them back because they're band is too small."

[guido61]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

His reasons: We were too old and we were female fronted.

Yep. There are all sorts of prejudices that you can experience in this business. And there is some truth behind a lot of them. Not every band is going to be the right band for every gig or every venue. You've got find the right gigs that fit your niche.

I think Ostrich Hat is great for the way they've been able to niche themselves in their marketplace and seem to have done very well by exploiting that niche. But that same uniqueness that gives them an edge on a lot of other bands in some venues might present barriers in others.

The best way to approach this, IMO, is to look at is a challenge. Find ways to get around that glass ceiling if you can't simply punch your way through it. History is filled with stories of people who were told "you'll never make it in this business" because they were too unique or different but who went on to become huge.

[guido61]

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

His reasons: We were too old and we were female fronted.

Yep. There are all sorts of prejudices that you can experience in this business. And there is some truth behind a lot of them. Not every band is going to be the right band for every gig or every venue. You've got find the right gigs that fit your niche.

I think Ostrich Hat is great for the way they've been able to niche themselves in their marketplace and seem to have done very well by exploiting that niche. But that same uniqueness that gives them an edge on a lot of other bands in some venues might present barriers in others.

The best way to approach this, IMO, is to look at is a challenge. Find ways to get around that glass ceiling if you can't simply punch your way through it. History is filled with stories of people who were told "you'll never make it in this business" because they were too unique or different but who went on to become huge.

[guido61]

Originally Posted by Potts

Apparently I'm in the minority with my opinion but that's ok.

We have a band around here that is "similar" to you guys and they had the same issue for awhile until they started doing both acoustic and electric shows.

Actually, I think you're saying the same thing that everyone else is: that the reality is that the best way for them to move forward might be to change the type of band they are.

I don't think that club owners care about perception--

Why did this band start doing both acoustic and electric shows unless it was to change the perception people had of them?

[guido61]

Originally Posted by Potts

Apparently I'm in the minority with my opinion but that's ok.

We have a band around here that is "similar" to you guys and they had the same issue for awhile until they started doing both acoustic and electric shows.

Actually, I think you're saying the same thing that everyone else is: that the reality is that the best way for them to move forward might be to change the type of band they are.

I don't think that club owners care about perception--

Why did this band start doing both acoustic and electric shows unless it was to change the perception people had of them?

[Lee Knight]

You know what you need that would totally change the perception of you being a too small of a band for certain venues?

A chick DJ fattening your sound. It would add visual and aural interest. And it would retain your clever twist on the band formula.

[Lee Knight]

You know what you need that would totally change the perception of you being a too small of a band for certain venues?

A chick DJ fattening your sound. It would add visual and aural interest. And it would retain your clever twist on the band formula.

[wheresgrant3]

Originally Posted by Potts

Apparently I'm in the minority with my opinion but that's ok.

We have a band around here that is "similar" to you guys and they had the same issue for awhile until they started doing both acoustic and electric shows. They doubled their popularity (maybe not doubled but you know what I mean). I'm not saying that's what you should do but they were great either way and people started to realize that. I don't think that club owners care about perception-- they care about asses in the seats and booze sales. At least that's the way it is here.

Put it this way...I have never heard ANYONE say, "They packed the place and we sold a ton of booze but I'm not sure we'll have them back because they're band is too small."

Well again... the only thing that will break that perception is draw. About 15 years ago the red hot band in my area was a trio. Two dynamic singers guitarists and a drummer. Of course the material at the time was post grunge and 90's alternative... easy pickings for any band heavy on vocals and less on theatrics. They had a wicked following and really laid the ground work for us to be able to use 'draw' to negotiate pay with club owners. 15 years ago bars and audiences would have balked at a band my size (we're up to 9 members including crew). These days we're large by design... I've never believed bigger is better.... but sometimes it can be perceived as 'bolder'.

In every case draw is the determing factor. Small band, big draw= bigger opportunities and pay. Big band+ small draw= death.