Backstage With the Band

[guido61]

Reverse snare and compression both sound like interesting theories. Yeah, I thought this might be more a question for the recording forum. I'm not particularly interested in trying to figure out how to recreate it live (unless it were very simple to do) nor do I think it's necessary. Nor am I even considering learning this particular song. I just heard this one on the radio yesterday morning and was wondering "how the fuck are they doing that?"

[wesg]

I think the compression thing is replicable live, you need at least two compressors, one can be pretty simple like the one in the new Behringer mixers, but the other one will need to be able to set the thresholds.

That said, compressing live music maybe wind up sounding very fatiguing to the listener. You would certainly want to pull down the mains a bit for any tunes you are compressing, because it will sound louder.. but that could make the music not reach as far if you are playing in a big hall.

[New Trail]

Originally Posted by MusicalSchizo

I think it's a combination of factors.

I think the biggest one is the fact that the bass drum is on every beat and everything else kind of flies around that. THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP. I've noticed that being a big thing in a LOT of current pop songs, to the point that I had to harass our drummer into playing the songs four-on-the-floor because he was cheesing out and not doing it and the songs just sounded completely wrong. They need that THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP throughout to work. So maybe that helps. That's what I'm hearing.

Brian V.

Yes, me too.

Originally Posted by guido61

Yeah, the thump-thump-thump thing has been around for awhile. What this song, and others like it is doing, is giving the chorus a "pulsing" feel by pushing notes on the "and" beats between the kicks during the chorus.....

Originally Posted by b_f_c_99

Its the reverse snare thing that slides into the snare......

I think there are some handclaps (or a patch that SOUNDS like handclaps) on the chorus as well, that hit on the downbeat after the reverse reverb sound.

[b_f_c_99]

Another thing that is done in the studio is you aren't hearing 1 drum track ESPECIALLY the snare, almost all modern pop is layers of drums and virtually all of them are programmed. Example, I'll track up a song using something simple like EZ drummer or Superior drummer. I'll then copy that MIDI info to another track and drop a layer of Nepheton or some other TS-9 or early drum machine, then mix those together, usually making the TS9 a bit louder in the kick. Pull out most of the real sounding high hat and your start getting close. THEN layer in another snare sample or maybe some cheesy sounding thing from M Audio or dropzone. Jerk out most of the 'room' reverb and now you're cookin'. But wait theres more, add some super low end thud with the 4 on the floor kick, not a bunch just enough to make you say Lady Gaga BOOM, BOOM.

Next take your snare hits on the chorus (you can do this the whole song but it gets annoying) new set of tracks for this, and every other hit either do a reverse snare slide in, or add a really subtle clap, or BOTH. Now we're grooving pretty good but not there yet. There are some pretty slick sound modules that actually do what David originally asked about, PULSE along with the beat like bew bew bew bew most synth vst's have them. Slide one of those onto another set of tracks and mix it in really low, almost where you don't hear it at all. Figure 5-6 midi tracks just for drums. Thats the basics, it can be alot of fun to 'produce' music like this, but its a little ridiculous as well.

And this is why famous bands, DJ's ect all have to run tracks if they want to be even close to the recorded sound. Frankly I find acts like P!NK and some of the Rhianna I've seen live to be much more enjoyable when they just play instruments and create a live band sound, not really go after the recorded sound. Its different, I've heard the recording, if I wanted that live I'd just yell at them to play the CD.

[LittleWiggler]

Originally Posted by jamesp

My money's on it being sidechain compression.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQnOQWLURFU

Yup - side chaining is big in pop stuff right now. I have had to track lines like that because trying to do it live is 'interesting'.

Basically you take the entire synth submix and sidechain it off of the kick drum.

[nchangin]

I bet it's a sonic maximizer

[can't remember]

I buy the reverse reverb on the snare but would add a touch of phasing and maybe a slight tremolo on the "static" sounding keyboard part during the chorus.

[Aging in Rhythm]

the mix/most of the mix sidechained to either the kick or a muted 4 on the floor kick.

IE the chorus of this song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRfuAukYTKg

..that song and every fidget/italo/french electro/blah blah what have you track from the last 10 years.

[MikeyParent]

Originally Posted by nousername

Jesus. Did someone tell the drummer to play "With more energy"?

Ha that dude is always like that - he's a lot of fun to watch live... much more so than the singer actually...

[Miko Man]

Originally Posted by MikeyParent

Ha that dude is always like that - he's a lot of fun to watch live... much more so than the singer actually...

A left-handed, left-footed drummer! You don't see those every day. Mark C.

[Actionsquid]

Originally Posted by Miko Man

A left-handed, left-footed drummer! You don't see those every day. Mark C.

[Lee Knight]

I'm not really hearing it as a reverse verb on the snare. Well... it is sorta, there's a sound he uses that sucks into the down beat, serving the same purpose as that reverse verb thing, but he puts it in slightly different places, leading me to believe he's placing it. Very clever. And... the timed, filtered delays in the intro are used in varying permutations throughout the song. That is a key ingredient to the overall feel. Timed, multitapped, filtered, and tastefully placed. And you have the upbeat open hat thing from disco. All of it bouncing with, against and all around a nice sounding four on the floor. It's a great pop production and arrangement. He's gotten really good.

[vanlatte]

All I hear is a triggered kick and swinging hats....

[Lee Knight]

Originally Posted by Lee Knight

I'm not really hearing it as a reverse verb on the snare. Well... it is sorta, there's a sound he uses that sucks into the down beat, serving the same purpose as that reverse verb thing, but he puts it in slightly different places, leading me to believe he's placing it. Very clever. And... the timed, filtered delays in the intro are used in varying permutations throughout the song. That is a key ingredient to the overall feel. Timed, multitapped, filtered, and tastefully placed. And you have the upbeat open hat thing from disco. All of it bouncing with, against and all around a nice sounding four on the floor. It's a great pop production and arrangement. He's gotten really good.

Oh... and a HUGE part of the feel is the disco bass part. 8th note with the upbeats on the octave, but done on synth. He's basically grabbed every disco groove trick and reapplied it. I think it's a great pop dance feel.

[nchangin]

Question who is that goofy drummer above anyway? Sorry I'm old

Drummers perspective: Video 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX7WikZjBaU

Found this video....I dunno watching the drummer, I think they have a track running cause I'm sorry just watching his work on real hats, they look like zilgian hats and I know what it really sounds like when he's doing what he's doing and it doesn't sounds like his hi hat is even miced up, I dunno I could be wrong, but it seems to be driven by a track for hat bass drum snare? And it seems like when he wacks the floor tom no effect either?

Drummers perspective: Video 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cbRdjGSIlo

Drums are the real deal on this video in my opinion.... You hear when he hits that floor tom as you can hear the overtones in the mix.

Just my thought looking at some live stuff... but the bass line really does drive this song. After seeing video 2 this would be pretty easy to pull off I'd think for a live band even with a double male part.

What about that funky effect he's using on the guitar in video 1 it comes through really strong, guess I've never heard a guitar sound like that before, but I'm not a guitar player at all so I'm a dummy when it comes to that?

[wheresgrant3]

Originally Posted by nchangin

Question who is that goofy drummer above anyway? Sorry I'm old

Drummers perspective: Video 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX7WikZjBaU

Found this video....I dunno watching the drummer, I think they have a track running cause I'm sorry just watching his work on real hats, they look like zilgian hats and I know what it really sounds like when he's doing what he's doing and it doesn't sounds like his hi hat is even miced up, I dunno I could be wrong, but it seems to be driven by a track for hat bass drum snare? And it seems like when he wacks the floor tom no effect either?

TRACKED??? I don't even think the drummer or then band is mic'd. That's entirely a 'tracked performance. Including vocals (check 2:30 mic pulls away and vocals don't fade). It's what they do for TV these days. It gets them in and out quickly. Kimmel's show does a great job at having the band play live... however that's on a separate soundstage.

There is nothing organic in that performance.


Good call on the 2nd performance. I'm inclined to say the drumming is live without alot of the performance (especially keys) tracked.

[wades_keys]

Listen real close to the kick drum. Sounds like they have an analog style synth patch locked in with it, with a downward pitch sweep (think those old roland synth drums, but drop it down a few octaves). Also there's a lot of key bass doubling the string bass. Tons of compression too.

[wades_keys]

Originally Posted by Lee Knight

Oh... and a HUGE part of the feel is the disco bass part. 8th note with the upbeats on the octave, but done on synth. He's basically grabbed every disco groove trick and reapplied it. I think it's a great pop dance feel.

Agreed. Reminds me of the first madonna album, which used ARP 2600's and DX7's all over the place for both drums and bass.

[guido61]

Originally Posted by wades_keys

Agreed. Reminds me of the first madonna album, which used ARP 2600's and DX7's all over the place for both drums and bass.

Hmmm...not sure we're talking about the same thing.

Maybe "pulse" was the wrong word to use. Maybe it's more of a "sucking backward" sound that is most likely some sort of compression. It's really obvious on this track at about 1:25 where it's done so hard that it practically drags the synths into the next beat.

[Potts]

OMG two pages an nobody has said a word about how ENTIRELY bad that song is.